Welcome to PatsFans.com

I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NE39, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. NE39

    NE39 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Why was this guy not on someone's roster?

    I'm not trying to make it sound like Jabar Gaffney is a superstar by any means, but looking around the NFL he is more talented than people give him credit for. He has good size and while not a burner he has decent speed and quickness for his size. He is supposed to be a fairly polished route runner and isn't afraid to make catches in traffic.

    Here is a kid who had a terrific college career, averaging 6 catches and over 100 yards receiving a game. He came out early and was a fairly high pick by the Texans. He hasn't lit the world on fire as a Pro, but 171 catches over 4 years is pretty good production for a guy who wasn't the main target on a team that struggled to pass the ball (they couldn't keep David Carr upright).

    Yet, this guy was cut by Philadelphia in camp and didn't get a sniff from another team until the Pats decided to work him out and sign him? Something doesn't compute there.

    Granted, lack of ST ability might be one strike against him and could be part of the answer, I'm not sure how he does in that area. However, this guy is more talented and a more accomplished WR than you would think might be on the street in October. If he had been injured I might understand, but he was healthy.

    I'm wondering if a lack of maturity might be a problem. By all accounts, Gaffney appears to be putting in the work since the Pats signed him, with both Belichick and Brady mentioning he is fitting in well. However, when he was drafted there were questions about his character.

    In December 1999 he was arrested for stealing some cash and a gold watch. Spurrier kicked him off the team and he lost his scholarship. After begging Spurrier for a second chance, he was allowed back on the team as a walk-on and responded by working his way back into good graces and having a big Freshman season.

    There were other issues. After a catching a TD against Tennessee, Gaffney grabbed his crotch and performed a throat slashing gesture to celebrate and earned a game suspension. He was part of the Miami/Florida Bourbon Street brawl prior to the Sugar Bowl. He also got in trouble for roughing up a 15-year old kid that tried to steal his motor scooter.

    So, what do we have with this kid? It wouldn't surprise me if he does pretty well in the passing game and is productive, because he has some ability. However, he doesn't strike me as the normal kind of guy on the Patriot's roster.

    Did the Patriots get a decent player who is finally maturing as he gets older, or is he just another piece of crap waiting to be flushed?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  2. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I'll go with CWFS. That would be Crap Waiting to be Flushed Syndrome. At least until he proves me wrong. But then, I'll just ignore that and pretend I was right all along. ;)

    Honestly, I dunno, but am curious to see him on the field.
     
  3. Bertil

    Bertil Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    The guy in your sig fell into this category about the same time last year. Let's hope Gaffney takes his cue from Artrell and makes the most of it.
     
  4. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Just think of him as the 5th wideout and you'll probably feel better.

    Is he better than Bethel or Childress in that role? I don't know, but I guess the Pats FO thinks so.
     
  5. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,051
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +48 / 11 / -4

    #54 Jersey

    I am confident that he will be allow them to run more 3 & 4 WR sets because he has experience in the slot. Using a formation of 2 TEs with 2 WRs without a serious deep threat is allowing teams to play close to the line which hurts the running game and compresses the space to complete throws. I don't think they are comfortable using a 2 WR set with Jackson. Using more 3s and 4s should get him on the field more, hopefully Jackson can take advantage of the situation and atatck the deep part of the field.
     
  6. NE39

    NE39 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I disagree. I think he might take playing time away from Caldwell, because I think he is a more accomplished WR and a better compliment to Gabriel.

    If he was brought in to be a 5th WR, he would have to be more of a ST contributor. He was brought in to help at WR, IMO.

    However, I'm wondering why he was available. I'm wondering if he is a moron.
     
  7. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Interesting observation about the ST role vs WR role... I'm doubtful that he's taking reps from Caldwell though as he has been the player that it's appeared (from watching on TV) that has gotten the most reps besides Brown.

    It'll be interesting to see if it is a true rotation system or if some sort of actual depth chart comes out of the scrum. It'd be nice if some site tracked the number of reps for each player in a game. I'd love to see which WRs play how many reps after the Bills game.

    Who knows if Gaffney will even be active for this game though... He hasn't been here for very long at all, and it took a while for Gabriel and Jackson to get worked in on limited experience.. Interesting weekend for WR watchers.
     
  8. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    98
    Ratings:
    +340 / 5 / -1

    His stats are basically the same as David Givens. Take that for what it's worth, if anything.
     
  9. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,415
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    have some background:

    http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout55.html

    dated material, but nonetheless...

     
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,731
    Likes Received:
    228
    Ratings:
    +688 / 53 / -21

    No one knows now what the WR lineup will be for the playoffs, or how the wr reps will be distributed, or even the realtive importance of wr receptions compared to those by TE's and RB's.

    What I do now is that we have passed on Porter and Moss (presuming these players were really available), as have 30 other teams.

    We have seven receivers who potentially could be part of the playoff mix, five on the roster and two on the Practice Squad.

    With regard to Gaffney, I expect him to be inactive for a couple of weeks at least. We have four healthy wide receivers. There is no reason for five to be on the active roster.

    Gaffney could be fine pickup. More importantly, the trade for Gabriel and the signing of Gaffney show (as we all know) that pioli is doing all he can every day to improve the team. We could have gone with Caldwell, Brown, Jackson and Childress, with Kight as a possible 5th, to be activated if needed. Many here were satisfied with this group. Pioli thought differently and acquired Gabriel and Gaffney. Gaffney could be a starter by playoff time, or he could be long gone. Personally, I think his health is big question mark. He CAN play.
     
  11. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,979
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -3

    Stats in terms of receptions - yes

    Stats in terms of stretching the field - no.

    Last year Gaffney was picking up just under 9 years per reception. Less than most TEs. About the same as a lot of pass catching RBs.

    He's really a possession receiver unlike Givens who, along with Branch was very much a deep threat.
     
  12. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0


    I think the thing that both Givens and particularly Branch excelled at was Intermediate routes (20-30 yards). Not necessarily deep routes (40+).

    Gaffney's 9 ypc is far lower than intermediate level, however. We need that intermediate threat to back off those LBs and keep the Safeties deep. Our running game could and would dominate if we found a consistent intermediate threat at WR post-Branch/Givens.
     
  13. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,726
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +454 / 37 / -17

    The Patriots front office is smart. They try to construct a team and various squads are all patterned to fulfill a complete profile of talents, preventing a situation where they are strong in one area but have a glaring hole elsewhere. they use situational substitution to bring the requisite attributes to the field when needed.

    In the situation with the WR squad, the old WR squad had some obvious weaknesses. They had little size. All attempts to bring in sizeable WRs failed. They also tended to have possession guys but no real speed. BJ was a failure, Patten was tiny, and Dwight and Davis were just not satisfactory as deep speed. The small possession types also seemed to get dinged up too much.

    This present WR squad all have respectable size. Gabriel looks to be the big deep-post kind of guy that they looked for in Don Hayes, and Andre Davis and even BJ. Now they have found him.

    What they didn't seem to have other than aging Troy was a another possession receiver. Jabbar Gaffney has demonstrated in his career that he is a possession receiver. The same size as Givens, with similar NFL production he even has slightly better speed, if not quite the degree of "toughness".

    (It also explains partially why the Eagles didn't want him. They were looking for a a TO big deep-post kind of guy, and Gaffney just is not that kind of guy. If Troy Brown was trying to be the Don Hayes, Musihn Muhammed, Doug Gabriel kind of receiver he would fail too.)

    Caldwell has size and toughness and has demonstrated that he can make the move-the-chains catches, and he blocks for the run very well. He just doesn't seem to get open as much as a true possession type. But he has hands down, much more speed than Givens or Brown.

    CJ is the big SPEED receiver even if he hasn't shown much. With world-class speed, he only has to catch a couple of deep bombs and there will be instant respect. Because Speed kills. He could compliment and add to Gabriel's talents.

    The five represent all the various talents that you want. The question is whether there is enough talent to succeed at any one requirement. The question is muddied by unfamiliarity. By game twelve the question should be answerable. I suspect the answer will be in the affirmative, but obviously could be wrong.
     
  14. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I wouldn't get your hopes up too much about Gaffney. They have him for a couple years on the cheap, and if he appears in the line-up down the road as a 5th WR, than great. If not, then it just means he was warming the Childress spot on the roster.

    I think that he won't really be active for a while, unless somebody gets hurt.

    He is not our next star player or fan favorite in my opinion, but just the 5th guy at WR. Like Andre Davis and others, he will most likely just hold a back-up spot for a while.

    He would be with another team already if he was worth starting, IMO.

    He should go ahead and get involved in special teams if he wants to assure some game action.
     
  15. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,726
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +454 / 37 / -17

    Givens was not a deep threat. With his speed (4.5+) he was a possession receiver. He did run after catch for a some big gains that raised his average per catch.

    There IS a difference.

    One of Brady's talents is to hit men in full stride allowing YAC to be better than most. :D
     
  16. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,959
    Likes Received:
    76
    Ratings:
    +230 / 1 / -0

    #95 Jersey

    But the year before, it was 15.4 ypc. Keep in mnid that the guy throwing to him in Houston, David Carr had an offensive line with ore holes than Swiss cheese and he didn't have a lot of time for Gaffney to run his routes. I wonder how many of those patterns were blitz pickups where he had to cut off his route to adjust. 15.4 may have been on the high side while 9 may have been on the low side with his average about 11.4 which it was in the previous two seasons.....
     
  17. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,979
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -3

    Not trying to bash the front office, but this year's WR corps was not part of a master plan... its very much a Frankenstien monster of sorts that's making the best of a bad situation.

    The Patriots are always trying to plan ahead. The plan they hoped to achieve was to have Derrick Mason under contract last year, making Branch a #2 WR and Givens a #3. By doing so they would have limited Branch and Given's market value. While they might not have been able to keep them both I think they expected keeping one was a real possibility.

    But not every plan can go as you'd wish. They did not count on the salary cap inflating the way it did, giving Givens a huge payday to sweep him away.

    They did not expect the Branch situation to play out the way it did with him unavailable in 2006.

    And to a lesser degree the didn't expect Jackson's injury - though that can happen to anyone anytime - but ideally they'd never put too much pressure on a rookie anyways.

    So the front office may be smart, but their plan was NOT to have Troy Brown as a defacto #1 WR. They did not plan to make a last minute trade for Gabriel - though they are glad and lucky they were able to get him. And if Gaffney were the best thing since sliced bread they'd not have waited 5 weeks until every other team took a pass on him. As far as Caldwell, they likely saw his potential but BB general equates future performance with past performance so I doubt he was counting on Caldwell to be a #2 WR either.

    That's not to say the "system" the Pats have doesn't work - its just that it doesn't always go exactly the way they want - and in this case, it was far from what they wanted.
     
  18. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,726
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +454 / 37 / -17


    Whether it was an anticipated or unanticipated clusterf**k or not, is not the question. The answer is what they did about it.

    They did not go out and sign another deep receiver like Kevin Johnson or Jerry Porter or Randy Moss. They recognized that they needed a mix of talents and Gaffney, a possession receiver, was the last guy they signed.


    They have the big Speed type - CJ
    They have the big deep-post guy - DG
    They have the wily old pro Possession type - TB
    They have the tough run blocking more than possession type - RC
    They have the pure possession type - JG

    So they end up with two deep types, two possession types, three move-the-chains types, and at least two run blocking types. Whatever is the need, they have a couple of guys, who maybe can't do it all, but can do their own thing adequately.

    They have all demonstrated their own particular talent in their NFL careers, except for the rookie speedster. Situational substitution is anticipated, and they are prepared with the right jigsaw puzzle pieces. :cool:
     
  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,979
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -3

    Unfortunately, until he can get on the field and show Defenses they should respect him, our speed guy has a hamstring problem and thus, no speed.

    Let's hope you're right about Gabriel - but no defense is fearful of his deep threat just yet.

    Then I agree, we've got a bunch of short possession receivers.

    Thank God (IMO) they didn't waste draft picks for a KJ, Moss, or Porter - that wouldn't be making the best of a bad situation - it'd be making the worst of a bad situation. And that's being said by a guy who wishes we DID have a deep threat.

    So unless they get creative and start confusing OCs by sending Watson and Thomas deep - and have them make some plays - we're just going to have to accept the fact that Defenses have little reason to respect our deep threat and will collapse, letting Safeties come in to make plays and attempt sacks.

    We've generally come to expect that the Patriots coaching staff can make a silk purse from a sow's ear - but that will take some creative play calling and we're all still waiting for that.
     
  20. CaffeineMan

    CaffeineMan On the Roster

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Here's the Outsiders quote from PFP2006, back when he was looking like he'd be with Philly, back in the July/August timeframe.

    "Sort of a bargain-basement Keyshawn Johnson. He's not an explosive playmaker, but he's a decent possession receiver. David Carr and the coaching staff came to rely on him on third downs, but that doesn't change the fact that he caught only 50% of his third down passes. He'll probably fit in with all the other disappointing Eagles receivers."

    -- Pro Football Prospectus 2006
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>