Welcome to PatsFans.com

If we franchise Mankins, how does that impact our draft?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Ochmed Jones, Feb 12, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,727
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    While I would love to see Mankins sign a long term deal, and I think he has earned a record OG bonus, I do expect him to be franchised and I think if that happens, it will affect how BB drafts.

    Many have us drafting a Watkins or Pouncey or some other OG very early in the draft. Would franchising Mankins take these players off your draft boards and allow us to wait until much later to take an OG?

    Interesting that PFW has us taking Boling at #28. I have been a fan of Boling's for our offense since October and still think we take him at #60.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  2. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'm sure we will still be taking an OG in rounds 1 or 2. I don't think the tag will change that. Even if mankins signs we need a RG, plus I think the tag in this situation just insures that we will have the ability to trade mankins. My gut tells me that he won't be signed long term unfortunately.

    I would prefer we invest a late 1st rounder or very early second @ guard and re-sign Todd light. That way we can plug in a stud on the left side when that time comes to play alongside vollmer. We can always sign a FA to play RG if mankins is dealt or bring someone up from scar university.
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree. There's usually some good value to be found in OLs in the draft. Pass protection for Brady is Priority #1 at all times. They'll take and OL in the first 2 rounds, no question.
  4. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    OL depth is must in Rd 2 or 3.....would not be surprised they take 2 OL, an OG and C. Mankins likely leaves in 2012.

    Kaczur, Neal need to be replaced, and possibly even Koppen.
  5. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Its safe to say we will still be needing 2 new bodies on the OL, most likely one T and one G/C. I might be in the minority but I think Neal will be back for his last year and Connolly played decent last year...and in more games than any other G on the team. We spent a 4th a few years ago on Ohrnberger(sp?), wonder if he is in the plans at C, Koppen was the weak link inside IMHO. If we bring back a FA OL my guess it would be Light taking a home town discount. Vollmer can surely play LT and replacing Kazcur with a draft pick is relatively easy.
  6. serifyn

    serifyn Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    whatever happens, wisniewski from penn would be a great pickup by this team, he plays mostly center but can play guard as well, he would be great depth until he has to take over for koppan, he has the versatility that the patriots love.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    I think the team needs to draft a RG no matter what happens with Mankins. To me, slapping the tag on Mankins just gives the team one year of breathing room regarding the LG spot, since I don't see them franchising Mankins a second time at a 20% salary increase. Pouncey would work for me. I'm just not sure that he'll still be there at #33.
  8. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    YouTube - Penn State Football: Stefen Wisniewski Scouting Report of Michigan State

    positional flexibility is definately something BB values. 3 time all academic PSU player - first time ever - could be a nice pickup in rd 2
  9. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Word on the street is that wisniewski isn't very good snapping out of the gun. That's troubling considering brady does alot of damage from that formation.
  10. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    I agree. Regardless of Mankins being franshised. Imo, Guard should still be a priority whether it be Pouncey, Watkins or Wisniewski. Who knows, maybe they already have someone in mind for the later rounds? For me though franchising Mankins and grabbing one of those 3 would be a success. Neal and Connoly are capable guards. Just not the most reliable in terms of health. We need depth and if the draftee sits a season because they are healthy, so be it.
  11. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,488
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +35 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    #91 Jersey
    I think the best way to go with Mankins is the following -

    1. By Franchising him you can put off your final decision on him for a few months. It lets the Pats have more control of where he goes, and it is their best opportunity to maximize his value in any trade scenario. Hopefully it would be resolved by the draft in late April. He'll either sign or be traded.

    2. I'm thinking that Mankins will stay firm on Maximizing his contact and will ultimately leave. I'm OK with this because I think we will be fine.

    3. First thing I do is resign Light to a hometown discount and move him to LG. There he will flourish. He is already a top run blocker and most of his weaknesses vs speed rushers, will disappear with the move. At LG, Light would play at an all pro level.

    Disclaimer: it should be noted that I have been saying this for over 5 years and he has yet to play a snap at LG :D

    4. You move Volmer to LT and have Kazcur/LaVoir/1st or 2nd round draft pick play on the right side. It seems the value in the draft is at RT more than the interior OL. I think we will be OK at RG with a combination of Connolly/Neal/3rd or 4th round draft pick

    5. I'd love to keep Mankins, but frankly the money would be better spent on an impact defensive FA. Its not personal, Logan, just business
  12. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think they try drafting a tackle, on the theory that he might:

    1. Eventually replace Light.
    2. Immediately bump Light to guard.
    3. Immediately move to guard himself ala' Mankins.

    If Mankins were going for sure the need for guards would be so dire that drafting a pure guard would be more in the cards.
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    THE NEED AT GUARD
    Apparently you are just fine with Neal and Connolly as our future right guards, and fine with Orhnberger as our backup LG. IMHO, we need at least one pure guard. Depending on whether Mankins stays, we need another OG or an OG/C (could be a pure center).

    For 187th time on this board, Light is playing LT, backup OT or is playing for another team. Dante will not move Light to another position. I haven't a clue why anyone would think that Light will be re-signed at $5M a year to start a new career as a guard.

    If we draft a stud OT and Light is also re-signed, the draftee will sit on the bench as Vollmer did. Perhaps you think that we will draft an OT who will better than Vollmer?

    MY BOTTOM LINE - We have FOUR needs on the OL quite a lot for the #1 OL in the nfl.
    We need a LT (could be Light).
    We need a LG (could be Mankins)
    We need to develop a C at least to compete for a spot in 2012.
    We need a RG, at least to compete with Connolly for the starting spot in 2012.


  14. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Wow. Ochmed, you were the one who put me on the Boling band wagon over a month ago. His stock has been rising like the national debt ever since. I liked him in late round 2, thinking that would be perceived as a reach by the pundits, but #28? Really? I would much rather he stay under the radar.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  15. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I said the EXACT SAME THING as #3. I was told I was comedic relief by one of the village homers around here. He says Todd Light will get 10M a year here or somewhere else as he is one of the top LTs in the league. Laughable. Light would be a good guard. Carimi would be a great RT and a good LT. Aldon SMith, Carimi, LeShoure, Watkins (with dallas #2 got for mankins), Ballard....that's my first 5 picks.

    Watkins could come in here and be better than mankins DAY ONE.

    ps...yes I know it's "matt light"...."todd" until pats win the SB again. As punishment for the strip sack from suggs.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  16. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree with all this, except - didn't Vollmer actually start a few times at both RT and LT to cover for injuries?
  17. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Although the prospect of losing Mankins, Light and Neal is a little bit troubling, I am comforted by:

    The flexibility the number of high round picks in the draft gives us (Thanks BB and FU to all the *****ers and complainers who hate to see BB trade down)

    The relatively few needs we have in the draft. (OLB, OLine, and DE).

    The fact that we have a starting caliber LT in Vollmer. If we resign Light, great. If another team values him more, so be it. The good news is we don't have to reach in the draft for a starting caliber LT. Give me Cameron Jordan, Aldon Smith or JJ Watt over Nate Solder, Tyron Smith or Anthony Costonzo all day long (from a needs standpoint.)
  18. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Thanks BB and FU to all the *****ers and complainers who hate to see BB trade down.

    I know. We could conceivably get a DE, and OLB, an OT and 2 OG out of the top 100 and still have at least a 3rd-rounder left over for .... whatever.

    After a 14-2 season.

    That's some seriously mind-boggling stuff right there. I mean, if anyone had suggested, back when the Seymour trade was made, that things would work out like this for the 2011 draft, the guys in the white coats would've been on them like dog fur on our couch (we have three).
  19. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    The only rain on our parade is the fact that Oakland was able to cobble together a mediocre season leaving us with a mid first rounder. I blame the ineptitude of the AFC west.
  20. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    I'm ready to give the pick back to them and go double or nothing for next year.

    Seriously, I want a re-do,they played well and got lucky sweeping their division. This years schedule is brutal and 5-11 sounds closer to the mark.


    Home =chiefs, broncos, chargers, bills, dolphins, packers, vikings, browns.

    away=chiefs broncos, chargers, Patriots, jets, bears, lions, texans

    This team will get waxed almost every Sunday imo
  21. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,975
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 2 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I hope it doesn't impact the draft one way or the other. The Patriots focus should be on front seven and BPA for the first three picks, #17, #27, #33 and then pick up 1-2 O Line in the remaining rounds.
  22. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,732
    Likes Received:
    45
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #50 Jersey
    One has nothing to do with the other. People have been looking at Pouncey and Watkins to replace Connolly at RG.
  23. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +9 / 2 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    I don't see any situation where Mankins doesn't get tagged, so I dont think it will change too much. Everyone knows its going to happen so it wont be a suprise. To me the only two scenario's that make sense would be to either tag and trade him, or give him an extension. I dont think letting him play for 1 year under the tag makes any sense because its the least value you can get for him. It basically kills any chance of signing him long term and it greatly decreases his trade value, and I dont think they would tag him again next year. So I would much rather trade Mankins now or give him an extension than let him walk after 1 year at $11 million.

    In terms of the draft, the only O-Lineman I would take in the top 33 is Pouncey. The problem with him, is he will definitely be a 1st rounder, and likely go before pick 28. So to get him would require either a trade up from 28 or a trade down from 17. I would stay away from all OT's early in this draft because I think they are all overrated and overvalued. Any OT in the first round this draft would be a reach in my opinion. I think we are better of sticking with Light and going after an OT next year when the Tackle class looks much better. In terms of the other OG's in this draft, I like Watkins, but his stock is raising way too high for me. A top 33 pick for a 26/27 year old rookie guard isn't ideal for me. If he fell to 60 I would take him but not 33. He could even sneak into the late 1st which is way too high for my liking. The same goes for Ijalana, who is starting to rise a lot higher than I'm comfortable taking him.

    My preference would be to wait until the 3rd/4th rounds where there seems to be some good value. I know a lot of people have Boling at 60, but I think he can be had later on. While he is starting to rise, most draft analysts have him as a 3rd/4th rounder, where I think he would be much better value. The other OG I really like is James Carpenter from Alabama. Both guys seem to fit the Patriot mold, both being seniors that have started at LT in the SEC. I think these guys offer much greater value while still being potentially very good O-Lineman for the Pats.

    My Ideal scenario would be OC Rodney Hudson in the early 3rd, Boling in the late 3rd and Carpenter in the early 4th. Give them the opportunity to fight it out for a starting spot, and if not let them sit and learn.

    LT- Light (Vollmer)
    LG- Connolly, Carpenter
    C- Koppen, Hudson
    RG- Neal/Kazcur, Boling
    RT- Vollmer, Kazcur, Maneri/Late round developmental tackle
  24. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The first thing to consider is whether there will be a CBA by March 4 or whether there will be a lockout or other protracted period of instability which limits the preparation time Coach Scar will have entering the season. Should there be no resolution by the draft NE would seriously need to consider the value of drafting a Watkins who is still learning the trade over drafting a Boling who despite (correctable) flaws is more technically sound and is more versatile. This also applies to other OT to OG conversions. Lower level OL, especially, would likely be considered even more of a risky investment.

    Regardless of CBA (in)activity, Vollmer does not move to LT, he's now the anchor on the right with Neal and Kaczur rehabbing.

    Tagging Mankins is a way to ensure having an anchor on the left with Light's status pending. Light's situation is likely to be resolved by draft time, which leaves Coach Scar and BB to determine if Maneri or Kaczur will be ready to step in should Light not re-sign, or whether drafting a LT like Castonzo or Sherrod or Carpenter might start the transition on that side.

    Should Light re-sign, the tag on Mankins gives the team some flexibility in the draft to consider a less experienced LT like Solder, or an OT-to-OG conversion like Watkins or perhaps Pinkston.
  25. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Unless there's agreement on the CBA, Light's status will (at least officially) be completely up in the air when the draft takes place. That's one of the things making this year's draft a bit different than usual. As of right now, the draft is going to happen before free agency.
  26. AƟƟynormal

    AƟƟynormal PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    Yet, we moved Kaczur from RT to Guard in the pre-season. His injury clouds the results of that move.

    I have read your belief that Dante won't try to move Light to guard before but you haven't said why he won't try Light at Guard. Well, it's probably me missing the post. I'd like to know why you're so adament in view of the Kaczur switch. Further, as for the $5m to try to switch to Guard, you forget he'd still be a capable LT backup. That's only two million more than we pay Kaczur ($3M) and Light could be as low $4m on a new contract. Paying Light $4-$5m as a backup or as a LG would be a good investment, certainly better than Kaczur was paid.
  27. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    1) With Kaczur, we had a player UNDER CONTRACT who was about to be beaten out by Vollmer for his RT spot. We were considering using our 3rd string LG as a starter. Kaczur was considered at a possible option. It did indeed seem reasonable at the time. Kaczur was starter without a job. It was a good idea to see if he could be an option at LG, or RG for that matter. Personally, I agree that Kaczur might have the flexibility to play OG, he certainly has the ability to play LT.

    2) You see to believe that Light has no other options than the patriots. You want to sign him for $4M as an OK backup, who could start. I ahve no problem paying Light the $5 or $6M a year it will take to sign him. I have no doubt that, if we sign him that he will start. I have absolutely ZERO CLUE why this board thinks he's not a starter. If Dante agrees, he'll start elsewhere. It really is that simple, unless you think that Light will get more money from the patriots to be a backup than he would get to start elsewhere.

    3) I did NOT say that no one is capable of being able to play more than one position. It is OFTEN the case that a LT in college plays LG in the pros. There have been literally hundreds of posts about Light moving to RT or LG (mostly so that Vollmer can play LT). Someone can dig up the analysis and quotes from those who know much more than I do about the x's and o's. They was a very solid conclusion every time that Light is our LT or he is playing elsewhere.

    4) I would much rather have Light as a starter than have anyone else.

    5) I would rather have a healthy Kaczur as a backup than Light.

    6) I have a different draft philosphies depending on whether we need a starter or whether, on the other hand, we are looking for depth and a starter (immediate or 2012. In depth, we look for felxibility. Obviously, we need Game Day backups who can backup more than one position. If we are looking for starters, we need to get the ebst we can at that position, being able to backup another position is a plus, but not essential. We defintely need one pure OG or even two if Mankins is gone. We need a pure center.

    At OT, the situation is much more interesting. The question is whether dante is OK with Vollmer and Kaczur as his starters. If so, he can draft a LT with considerable skills at OG. This would be important if Light is re-signed.




    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
  28. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/312559-yay-nay-shawn-springs-fred-taylor-matt-light.html#post1686859
  29. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    i dont think any one player will ever change the way the pats go in to the draft they will take the best player or trade down thay get offerd


    but i do think Mankins will get a long term contract and the pats will draft a G high to play RG i hope
  30. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    from your mouth to bb's ear.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page