If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap...

[upstater1]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

you're waisting your breath the Krafts will not spend any bonus money "their money", as far as I'm concerned not signing Asante and trading Seymour for a pick two years from now because there will be a new CBA confirmed everything I suspected about the Krafts. Make no mistake they give BB a budget every year including bonus money to be spent the reason they love BB is because he has brought them 3 titles and the system is predicated on being able to let go players who have played themselves into big contracts and replace with draft picks. This worked early in the dynasty like the trade of Tbucky Jones but now it's evening out the drafts haven't been that good lately and once again they have been exposed trading 1st round picks for 2nd round picks why so they don't have to pay bonus money. How else can you explain trading Cassel for a 2nd round pick when you could have gotten a 1st and 3rd from Tampa or Denver and to boot threw in Vraibel. I drank the kool-aid for a long time but I have taken a step back and started looking at this since the Branch debacle.

This makes no sense when you consider the Patriots spend to the cap. We have been through this before. The Patriots spent mid-money n players like Bruschi, vrabel, troy Brown, which would have been impossible if they spent top dollar on Damien Woody and Lawyer Milloy. Most teams don't have a top earning middle class like the Patriots do. As long as they spend to the cap, you can't argue with it.

 

[Keegs]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

These are our own players.

no they aren't.

 

[upstater1]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

no they aren't.

Wha??? Wilfork is not a Patriot?

 

[mgteich]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

I will ignore your misunderstanding of the rules of next year's no cap spending. The details aren't the primary issue, in any case.

I do agree that a no-cap year will make it much easier to develop acceptable contracts with the six players you mention. I agree that it would be a good idea to try to sign all of them long-term.

OFFENSE
The no-cap window will provide additional flexibility to extend Brady. My guess is that the best way to help those negotiations along would be to also extend Wekler and Moss for at least three years. I don't think Mankins will sign for what the patriots will offer, but we should try. In any case, Mankins is ours though 2010 since he is an RFA. If someone takes him, we'll get a 1st and 3rd round draft choice.

DEFENSE
I suspect that both Wilfork or Bodden will find owners elsewhere offering more than the patriots. We should franchise Wilfork and keep him or 2 firsts. I think that we should make every effort to keep Bodden, and even overpay a bit.

SPECIALISTS
We should offer Gost a long-term contract. If not, he too will be given high tender. Anyone who want to can pay a 1st a 3rd for a kicker.
================

Curiously, I think most of this would be doable with or without the cap. The best part of a no-cap year is that Mankins and Gostkowski have to stay as RFA's.

I would pay back the fans and insure that BB and Brady went out with a bang by unloading a bank on the following players:

Brady
Wilfork
Moss
Mankins
Welker
Bodden

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

I will ignore your misunderstanding of the rules of next year's no cap spending. The details aren't the primary issue, in any case.

I do agree that a no-cap year will make it much easier to develop acceptable contracts with the six players you mention. I agree that it would be a good idea to try to sign all of them long-term.

OFFENSE
The no-cap window will provide additional flexibility to extend Brady. My guess is that the best way to help those negotiations along would be to also extend Wekler and Moss for at least three years. I don't think Mankins will sign for what the patriots will offer, but we should try. In any case, Mankins is ours though 2010 since he is an RFA. If someone takes him, we'll get a 1st and 3rd round draft choice.

DEFENSE
I suspect that both Wilfork or Bodden will find owners elsewhere offering more than the patriots. We should franchise Wilfork and keep him or 2 firsts. I think that we should make every effort to keep Bodden, and even overpay a bit.

SPECIALISTS
We should offer Gost a long-term contract. If not, he too will be given high tender. Anyone who want to can pay a 1st a 3rd for a kicker.
================

Curiously, I think most of this would be doable with or without the cap. The best part of a no-cap year is that Mankins and Gostkowski have to stay as RFA's.

I would pay back the fans and insure that BB and Brady went out with a bang by unloading a bank on the following players:

Brady
Wilfork
Moss
Mankins
Welker
Bodden

They won't be extending anyone beyond Brady until the know for a fact there will be football played in 2011. They won't extend Moss specifically because he will be 34 in 2011. They won't extend Welker because he's signed through 2011 already and at his size and given the way he plays and the rate at which he's absorbing punishment it's not a given he can continue to play at this level beyond a couple of more seasons...

Paying a first and a third for a PK is suicidal so I don't think Gostkowski is going anywhere. I don't think Bodden or Mankins will have a top tier market. I think there is a reasonable chance they get the new CBA done before March, and if not they still get one done before 2011. I think any new CBA will revisit accounting for the uncapped year if there is one and that is why teams like the Patriots won't go nuts. They are fiscally conservative because the don't ever want to end up screwed because they took a shot in the dark.

They won't extend Wilfork unless he sees his market as they do. Much like Asante and even Branch before him (who had a great rapore with Brady but also was a twig with a red flag for durability that turned out to be substantial), they set a cap/contract value on these guys and they simply won't exceed it. I hope Vince doesn't regret not taking the bird in hand deal, and that had to have crossed his mind when he launched his helmut.

Which is why Peppers won't be here either. Too inconsistently focused a talent to invest that kind of cash in let alone if a work stoppage is still looming.

 

[upstater1]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

I think any new CBA will revisit accounting for the uncapped year if there is one and that is why teams like the Patriots won't go nuts.

Now that's a big Al Davis lawsuit waiting to happen. You can't retroactively make up new rules of the old CBA. 2010 is already part of the current CBA. The next CBA can't retroactively delve into the last year like that ESPECIALLY since the money paid in 2010 would count against the new cap and mean less money for players initially.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

Now that's a big Al Davis lawsuit waiting to happen. You can't retroactively make up new rules of the old CBA. 2010 is already part of the current CBA. The next CBA can't retroactively delve into the last year like that ESPECIALLY since the money paid in 2010 would count against the new cap and mean less money for players initially.

You can collectively bargain just about anything. Considering there may be quite a few teams taking a step back financially next season with no cap floor, and more interested in revenue sharing and expansion than not, I doubt they will want to see the skids greased for the forseeable future for the usual handful of suspects. The way the 'Skins season has gone Snyder may be in a position to sign ALL the FA in 2010 to frontloaded contracts.

And he's really the only owner in a position to do so. FedEx is a cash cow. Jones new stadium will be but at the moment he's a little pressed since he couldn't even sell naming rights in this economy. Ditto the Giants and JETS with their new digs where PSL's aren't exactly flying off the shelf. Guys like Paul Allen could dip into their own private fortunes, but that's not how they got rich and some of them are hurting because their non football holdings have lost value. Kraft is hip deep in development of Patriot Place in a down economy and still looking to develop additional land he owns. He's not going to spend any Kraft money on the Patriots. That's almost always bad business. Make it pay for itself. It has the pieces in place to do that for the forseeable future. Brady and Belichick manage to remain competitive even when they're woefully undermanned. Kraft would certainly wecome a couple of more Lombardi's in his lifetime, but he's got 3 in the case and he's not going to suddenly shift financial gears because a segment of the fan base thinks it needs another one right this minute.

 

[upstater1]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

You can collectively bargain just about anything. Considering there may be quite a few teams taking a step back financially next season with no cap floor, and more interested in revenue sharing and expansion than not, I doubt they will want to see the skids greased for the forseeable future for the usual handful of suspects. The way the 'Skins season has gone Snyder may be in a position to sign ALL the FA in 2010 to frontloaded contracts.

And he's really the only owner in a position to do so. FedEx is a cash cow. Jones new stadium will be but at the moment he's a little pressed since he couldn't even sell naming rights in this economy. Ditto the Giants and JETS with their new digs where PSL's aren't exactly flying off the shelf. Guys like Paul Allen could dip into their own private fortunes, but that's not how they got rich and some of them are hurting because their non football holdings have lost value. Kraft is hip deep in development of Patriot Place in a down economy and still looking to develop additional land he owns. He's not going to spend any Kraft money on the Patriots. That's almost always bad business. Make it pay for itself. It has the pieces in place to do that for the forseeable future. Brady and Belichick manage to remain competitive even when they're woefully undermanned. Kraft would certainly wecome a couple of more Lombardi's in his lifetime, but he's got 3 in the case and he's not going to suddenly shift financial gears because a segment of the fan base thinks it needs another one right this minute.

That's too bad if Kraft doesn't please me immediately with more Lombardis.

That being said, what better way to make Ralph Wilson rap his pants and settle for a deal than to show him the future if he doesn't sit down and shut up.

 

[shmessy]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

Don't be such a douche and have some fun, man. Remember football is a game.

As a resident just north of DC, I can tell you the folks down here have not had 1% of fun the past 10 years under the fantasy football idiot who owns the Redskins.

I find it hilarious how the OP wants Bob kraft to be more like Dan Snyder.

Open your eyes.

 

[jbb9s]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

I would pay back the fans and insure that BB and Brady went out with a bang by unloading a bank on the following players:

Brady
Wilfork
Moss
Mankins
Welker
Bodden

I don't get it. All these players are on the team now and they are not even a top 3 AFC team? Don't they need to add to the team from FAs abroad?

 

[upstater1]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

As a resident just north of DC, I can tell you the folks down here have not had 1% of fun the past 10 years under the fantasy football idiot who owns the Redskins.

I find it hilarious how the OP wants Bob Kraft to be more like Dan Snyder.

Open your eyes.

What are you talking about?

Where did I say that?

I called Snyder a maniac in my original post.

In fact, I had us signing our own guys, not free agents from across the league, and since I don't know what these guys are worth, I suggested signing them to what they're worth, but paying lots up front to clear cap money in subsequent years. The money is the same, you just get a lot more flexibility.

Snyder is the EXACT opposite. He pays a bonus that becomes a huge weight AGAINST the cap in future years, as he always expects big cap raises. He gambles.

 

[upstater1]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

I don't get it. All these players are on the team now and they are not even a top 3 AFC team? Don't they need to add to the team from FAs abroad?

I already answered this one. You do this to clear cap space in subsequent years.

 

[mgteich]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

I agree that we won't hand out major extensions until we know that there will be football in 2011. I think that this will come before the season starts (and perhaps before the draft or even March 1st). I think that it is quite possible to have the new agreement start in 2011, some tranisition clauses, and basically use the current CBA's rules for 2010 including nocap and extended RFA's. My GUESS is that there will be an agreement in principle signed before the draft.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of Welker. You basically indicate that he is an undersized munchkin with only a couple of years left. You also talk as if Moss is on his last legs. My PERSONAL feeling is that if this is how the patriots feel, then Brady will NOT be re-signed. Brady is not a player who is ready to start again with new receivers and a new offense. I think that he would greatly prefer for he, Moss and Welker to be expected to continue through at least 2013.

They won't be extending anyone beyond Brady until the know for a fact there will be football played in 2011. They won't extend Moss specifically because he will be 34 in 2011. They won't extend Welker because he's signed through 2011 already and at his size and given the way he plays and the rate at which he's absorbing punishment it's not a given he can continue to play at this level beyond a couple of more seasons...

Paying a first and a third for a PK is suicidal so I don't think Gostkowski is going anywhere. I don't think Bodden or Mankins will have a top tier market. I think there is a reasonable chance they get the new CBA done before March, and if not they still get one done before 2011. I think any new CBA will revisit accounting for the uncapped year if there is one and that is why teams like the Patriots won't go nuts. They are fiscally conservative because the don't ever want to end up screwed because they took a shot in the dark.

They won't extend Wilfork unless he sees his market as they do. Much like Asante and even Branch before him (who had a great rapore with Brady but also was a twig with a red flag for durability that turned out to be substantial), they set a cap/contract value on these guys and they simply won't exceed it. I hope Vince doesn't regret not taking the bird in hand deal, and that had to have crossed his mind when he launched his helmut.

Which is why Peppers won't be here either. Too inconsistently focused a talent to invest that kind of cash in let alone if a work stoppage is still looming.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: If I were the Patriots' owner (ha, ha) and we went into next season with no cap..

Bob Kraft will do what is fiscally responsible for his team. This

is why he is a millionaire and you are not.

Actually, he's always done what is fiscally responsible for Bob Kraft. This is why he is a billionaire and not a millionaire.

So far, the returns on the investments that Bob Kraft has to make in order to field a highly competitive Patriots Team have coincided with his family's financial objectives. While it is very likely that this will continue to be the case, there is no guarantee what would happen in a theoretically uncapped NFL.

The Krafts are very conservative in how they manage their investment, but it's almost impossible to tell from the publicly available numbers what is actually going on in the economics of any NFL franchise (much to the consternation of the NFLPA).

Estimated (only the Packers, as a publicly held entity, "report" numbers) "Profits" are almost meaningless, as we have no way of knowing how Costs are either calculated or allocated. On the numbers that are estimated by outfits like Forbes, the Patriots have the ninth highest Operating Margin in the league.

However, the two numbers that are probably most reliable, because they can be tied to external data, are "Debt" and "Revenue." The Patriots are the second highest Revenue generating team in the league (Redskins are first and Cowboys are third), which yields the high valuation that is informally assigned to the franchise. On the other hand, the Pats have the eighth highest level of Debt, because of their limited reliance on public funding. This gives the Patriots the ninth highest ratio of Debt to Revenue, not as bad as the New York teams or the Cowboys, but higher than 23 other Franchises and well above the low levels enjoyed by, for example, the Colts and Bills.

So, there's no way of knowing how far the Krafts would be willing or able to go in a theoretically completely uncapped world, but there can be no doubt that "the sky is not the limit."