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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    ... I haven't posted for a while. At first I thought I had writer's block, but then realized that others where saying what I was thinking...only better. ;)

    I have been a Pats fan from the begining. I was in the 7th grade when they started this experiment in professional football in a parochial town where the 2 favorite passtimes were politics and revenge.

    Actually the town's passions were split between the perennial success of the Celtics and the excitement of the Bruins. When the Pats played their first game Ted Williams was winding down his HOF career in virtual obscurity, and The "Impossible Dream" was still 7 years away.

    It seems hard to believe but back then the Sox weren't even close to being the icons they are today. Back then you could take the T for a dime to Fenway, pay 75 cents for unreserved left field grandstand, and be sitting in a box seat by the 5th inning. It was the days of Dick Stuart, Billy Klaus, Don Budding, Frank Malzone, Sammy White, Jim Persall, Medord's Bill Momboquette....and a position far behind the Yankees in the American league. Having a million in attendence was an unreachable goal.

    Into this enviroment the Patriots were born. Few people remember that the original seed money was provided in a stock offering. I'm pretty sure, IIRC, each share was for $20 or less. Later when Billy Sullivan scammed the stock holders and took control of the team, few of the public noticed or cared. But the lack of integrity and flat out stupidity of that family reared its ugly head continuously for the close to 30 years they owned the club. Even despite their ruinous rule the club prospered from time to time and we Pats fans had a chance to root for a winning team at least a couple of years every decade. And then the Krafts bought the team.

    Since that that time the Pats have been on an unprecidented run of success. Remember that. It isn't just since 2001 that the Pats have been sucessful. It goes back further than that. This team has had only THREE seasons when the club has played LESS than .500 football, and only ONE since 1995, since Bob Kraft bought the team 15 years ago. (I know, it doesn't seem that long ago, does it.)

    Well surprisingly the IS a point to all this, and predictably it took me forever to get to it, but here it is. We have won 3 superbowls, and been very competitive in the other years we have been on this run. However I have NEVER seen a such a complete TEAM as the one we are now getting the privelege to watch. I watch in virtual awe at the way they discect opponent's defenses and the surgical efficiency the stop their offenses.
    ...and the most frightening thing is that over the next 3 months.....they are going to get better. :eek:

    1. Injuries are the the only thing that can damage this team, but even if they occur our depth is unparallelled in the cap era. Think about it. The media told us all night about the Bengal's injuries, but never mentioned that the Pats were playing with their THIRD STRING RG in Russ Hockstein (both Neal and Yates are ahead of him at G)....and Russ played very well, btw. Outside of Brady, I can't think of a player that would be an irrepairable loss.

    Injuries will come (God we should know more than most fans), but I am confident that THIS team can overcome them better than even the great teams we had in 2003 and 2004.

    2. I was very happy with the play of Merriman in this game. I thought his tackling was excellent and his coverage, very good, especially when you concider that, at the time, the Pats had loosened their coverage because of their lead. Yeah, I could have done without the jawing with TJ, but complaining about that is severe nitpicking. He will learn. Its taken Hobbs 3 years to get over his loud mouth.

    3. Samuel's pick was a text book example of why he's one of the better CBs in the league. The key words here are anticipation and coaching. Samuel obviously was well prepared for THAT particular route. What was ironic is that he knew the route BETTER than Johnson. :rolleyes: He read the route correctly and broke on the ball litterally before Palmer threw it. Even if Chad had made HIS break correctly, Samuel would have had inside position.

    4. THere is no questioning Asante's smarts and physical skills, however I really hope he appreciates the coaching that allows him to be in the position to make the big plays here. I hope he matures enough to understand what a big part of his success that is.

    I'm hoping, now that he has earned some big money, he will realize that it is better to be well paid and be part of something that could be historic, than to be overpayed and play elsewhere. I'd like to think that Nate Clemens would trade places with Asante in a nanosecond. He might have a great contract, but the fact is he is on a team that will struggle to be 500 this seaon, while Asante will play on a team that might be one for the ages. What does it matter when both of them make more money than they could ever spend in a lifetime.

    5. I know I was one of the most prominent complainers on draft day. I loved the Moss deal, though like many I wondered how it would work out. I loved the Merriweather pick, and the trade of the #1 into next year...But I hated virtually everything else, and to some degree my fears were well founded, given that no one beyond the #4 pick remains with the team. HOWEVER, I doubt very much that ANY NFL team has ever hit on their FA signings better than the Patriots did this off season.

    6. The guy I want to single out however isn't Thomas, Moss, Welker, or Morris. The guy I want to mention is someone I really didn't realize how important he was until this game, and that is Kyle Brady. He has been a real force in both pass protection AND the run game. I never thought I'd say this, but he's a BETTER blocker than Daniel Graham, and with the outside threats we have this year, his lack of pass catching just doesn't matter.

    7. The thing that KILLS me about the commentary about "cameragate" is the lack of common sense I hear from guys who really SHOULD know better. The league has stated very clearly that the Pats DID NOT gain any competitive advantage from the filming of defensive signals....and there is a reason for that.....THEY DIDN'T GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. AND whay they DIDN'T gain an advantage SHOULD be very clear.....AND THEY NEVER SAY IT!!!!! :mad:

    I'd like JUST ONCE, that some so called analyst would simply explain, that in an era where there are 2-3 coaches simultaniously flashing in signals, that it would be virutally impossible to take the film, review it, determine who was the live coach, THEN determine what the signals meant, during the course of a given game.

    Not even our defenders ever make that point. Whick is the so called "cheating" DIDN'T affect even one play of a single game where it was being done. I am waiting for someone to say that the Pats were using those films, mostly over the offseason, to determine tendencies of particular DC's.

    Yes BB broke a rule (intentionally IMHO) and he was punished for it. (overkill in respect to the draft pick). But I am really surprise that neither the Pats FO or the NFL FO haven't made this simple point well known. Because they haven't BOTH have put into question all passed Patriots successes, and the integrity of the league as a whole. IMHO it has been totally unnecessary.

    7. Finally I have to admit that I was among those who have said over the past few years that we could win regardless of who was out there at WR, since the stockpile of WRs was so talented and vast. However my eyes have been opened at the EFFECT of having REAL talent out there.

    Still I wonder if this entire effect is due to the freakish talent of Moss, rather than the upgrades at the other 2 prominent WR positions.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  2. jct

    jct Rookie

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    Ya, I like the Play of Merriweather:D also. He should only continue to develope and contribute down the line...
  3. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Awesome job, ken. A very enjoyable read.:)
  4. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    I must have missed it, when did the Pats sign Meriman? ;)

    Great post as is the norm Ken!
  5. LA Pats Fan

    LA Pats Fan Rookie

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    Love your IDLE THOUGHTS

    Great Post -

    Well thought out and well stated.

    You say you like merriman - but think you really ment Merryweather.

    I agree with your assessment that this is the best Patriot team I've seen - EVER and I go back to the Grogan Days and our very first SB loss to Bears in 1986.

    But before we get to carried away and in Belicheck fashion - we really have not done anything.

    I know we beat every team we played handily - but keep in mind we played the 4 of the worst teams in the AFC.

    Look at the records of the teams we beat they are all 1-3 with only hapless 0-4 Miami being worse. If I may break down our opponents thus far.

    Jets - Their only win is Miami - they lost to the BILLS who had a back up QB

    San Diego - They are a shell of their former selves. They Lost to Kansas City at home of all places. Their only win is against the Bears. The Bears should have won that game and looked as bad as San Diego since.

    Bills - Probably the best opponent we faced yet. They actuall lead for a long time in the first quarter. Yet they are 1-3 and only beat the Jets

    Cincy - Cleaveland scored 52 points on this team we can only muster up 35. This is the last place defense - but they limit the PATs to under 38?

    OK so High powered cleaveland is next hey they are 2-2 but I beleive are overachieving.

    Really ouir first test is in week 6 when we go to Dallas..

    To be Honest - I love the fact the Pats are wining and winning big but the games actually suck.

    At what point in the game yesterday did you know the Pats would win. For me it was after the first TD we went up 10-0 and socred on our first 2 drives and stopped Cincy in theirs. Only the Tom Brady INT put any life into the game
  6. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Re: Love your IDLE THOUGHTS

    You say you think he really "ment Merryweather" - but I think you really meant "meant" and "Meriweather." ;)

    I'm not sure what to make of those of you who seem to be a little bummed that the games aren't more exciting. I will take a Pats blow-out over the most pulse-pounding game in the history of sports. Keep decimating the competition. It's a BLAST to watch, in my view.
  7. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    Re: Love your IDLE THOUGHTS

    I keep hearing the victory over the Chargers being downplayed due to their record, but that argument is highly overrated IMO. The Chargers are an incredibly talented and were highly motivated after their crushing playoff loss at the hands of the Pats.

    It's easy to say the Chargers are not a tough team now, but the Pats had something to say about them being in that position. I don't think ANY NFL team would have looked forward to a week #2 meeting with the Chargers.

    The Pats were highly motivated themselves due to the incredible disrespect leveled at them from the media's Spygate witch hunt, and that went a long way towards helping the Pats win.

    Any team that gets off to a tough start will suffer effects from it to the point they start pressing due to the circumstances and get away from their game.

    The Pats had a big hand in making the Chargers be what they have become this year, along with Norv Turner's ineptitude, but what if the Chargers' emotions and the Pats reacting badly to Spygate had resulted in the Chargers trouncing the Pats soundly?

    If that had occurred, we may not be talking about what is wrong with the Chargers.
  8. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Nice post.

    On the injuries, the Pats certainly have depth on the roster, but I'd disagree that Brady would be the only debilitating loss. Losing Thomas would put the linebackers in the same boat as last year, with them all being one year older. Awful. I also don't know that the loss of Wilfork could be properly compensated for. There's obviously a bunch of other guys that it would suck if they got hurt, but it's those 2 I'd single out.
  9. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    I'm not so sure AL. The Pats we won't know the true development of Eric Alexander and Pierre Woods until they actually get to play. That MAY be difficult, but IMHO Alexander could be ready to step in with little loss of production should Seau, Bruschi, or Thomas goes down. Regardless, compare the ILB group from this year to last and we have a vast improvement.

    BTW- mea culpa mea culpa, maxima mea culpa, or the Merriman/Meriweather malfunction. I couldn't believe I did that when I reread the post (as well as several other omissions, misspellings and half words. The Merriman thing I attribute to a senior moment, the rest to the fact I type too fast for my skills and I'm too lazy to go over my posts to correct them before posting....they are so damned long. ;)
  10. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    Don't worry Patfanken - If Merrimen ends up on this team in a few years then you could say you knew it was going to happen first! :)
  11. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    So it sounds like you wish no one had started a team in 1960?
  12. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Actually you may be on to something there. If you noticed, after the SD game was over and he'd done his handshake with Norv, BB made a point to seek out two SD players, one of Merriman (and I can't remember the other), and have a few words with them. I
  13. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    I don't know how you'd jump to that conclusion Ray. Though I do wish the Pats had started with some "OTHER" ownership group. Think about the possibilities if Bob Kraft had been the owner from the get go.
  14. thomas144

    thomas144 Rookie

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    Excellent comments. I am nearly as old as you and agree with virtually all of what you said, and didn't even notice the Merriman/Merriweather confusion.

    I remember thinking your first point number 7 was especially good. I'm annoyed that the Patriots haven't done more to defend themselves in the "videogate" "scandal" but my interpretation is that Kraft doesn't want his customers getting too pissed off at the league - this has to hurt his brand equity.

    That's one of the reasons I hope they sign Ricky Williams.

    By the way, off topic, but why does the NFL ban players who smoke marijuana? Do they ban players who get tickets for speeding?
  15. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    No possibility at all, Ken. Kraft is primarily a businessman. Nobody wanted to start a football team in Boston, they thought Sullivan was crazy. Other teams had failed within years (Redskins etc,). You see Boston was a baseball town.

    As we wax nostalgic, let's look over the other teams and ownerships of the times. I remember going to Fenway to watch Vic Wertz, Pumpsie Green et al. I thought they were great teams. I was wrong, they were awful!! Yawkey had plenty of money and his product on the field stunk out loud.

    Meanwhile, a brand new team started on a shoe string boasted the greatest 4 man line in the AFL, featuring Houston Antwine plus pre 1967 players Parilli, Cappelletti, Garron, Nance, 7 time Pro Bowler Jon Morris and more. Which owner was putting the best product on the field? Not millionaire Yawkey.

    Of course the tremendous Celtics dynasty plus the 70's championship teams were the result of stable and generous ownership. NOT!

    Hard to find anything on this. Suffice it to say, we almost lost Auerbach at the end of this mess.
    ----------------------------------
    National Equities, 1965-1968; Ballantine Brewery, 1968-1969; Trans-National Communications, 1969-1971; Investors' Funding Corporation, 1971-1972; and Leisure Technology, 1972-1974. Irv Levin.

    John Y. Brown trade the whole franchise and also traded three #1's for future Lakers backup Bob McAdoo .
    --------------------------------------------

    I don't follow Hockey, but you can't say Jacobs put the money into players and he had the money. Don't know about 60's Bruins.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    What is certain is that Kraft was a season ticket holder for an established team that had gone to a Super Bowl (3rd highest payroll that year, pre salary cap). As a season ticket holder, he went to the same stadium every game (his threat to move to Hartford shows the difficulty of pulling off such a project in the Boston area.)

    Kraft has been a good owner, (BB has made him a great owner LOL!) and he has been an excellent businessman since he took over his wife's family company.

    It's every fans dream to buy the team. As you sit in the stadium and watch your team, it's necessary for there to be a stadium to sit in and a team to watch, for the rest of the dream to come true.

    Would Kraft have put the time and effort into starting that team from scratch in the 1960's? I doubt it.

    Sullivan's long dead. He deserves at least a little credit for what he did.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2007
  16. marty

    marty Rookie

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    Thanks for your post Ken, as usual, a great read!!!!
  17. NYPatsFan

    NYPatsFan Rookie

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    I hope you are right Ken. Branch and Givens were stars on the Patriots. They thought they were great because of their God given abilities. They chose to ignore the critics and they took the big money. Now where are they? No one even knows where Givens is and no one considers Branch a top 20 receiver anymore.

    Players are egotistical. I hope Samuel makes the right decision.
  18. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Givens did the responsible career thing in departing as he was offered FAR more there than here.

    He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named was a Twit and left for little more. Remember all the arguements posted here whether he was a Top 5 vs Top 10 wideout?

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