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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Triggerfish, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. Triggerfish

    Triggerfish Rookie

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    Good luck in the playoffs Pats fans! Now that my Steelers are out, I guess I can say it (although I still feel dirty about it). Say what you will, but last night was a good game. Both teams made some critical mistakes, but in the end they both gutted it out for the whole 60 minutes. Honestly, although I am disappointed about this game that the Steelers again COULD have won, I can't say that the season has been a complete letdown. This team under a new rookie coach wasn't predicted to even make the playoffs by many! Taking into account all the injuries they've had going into the postseason, I think they certainly could have looked worse last night. Ben showed some poise in leading them back into the game in the second half, and the defense made some key stops when they needed to. Ben is STILL a top 5 QB in my opinion, and if he can stop holding onto the ball too long and avoid some of those costly turnovers, he'll only get better! Tomlin, overall, gets a good grade in his first year in Pittsburgh, and I stand by his decision to go for 2 (both times) last night. Under the circumstances, it was the right call. Looking forward to seeing this team after some much needed offseason changes next year! :rocker:

    That being said, I appreciate the "hospitality" (for the most part) here at PatsFans. I know there's some idiot trolls here that annoy you all, just like every other board, but some of us "trolls" truly do appreciate a well operated and active board like the one here. I, for one, won't be disappearing just because my team lost. I can take my lumps, so bring it on if you must. :bricks:

    Once again, congrats on a tremendous season and best of luck on that 4th ring.
  2. nhpatsfan

    nhpatsfan Rookie

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    Thanks. It's always nice when people from other teams show up despite the outcome.
  3. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    Solid. Its been a great season overall as you said with a first year HC. Losing Smith and Parker didnt help the cause. Lots to be proud of there with that club. So, I appreciate the good words and grab yourself a seat in the back of the bandwagon for a few weeks. Gonna be a fun ride.
  4. homerpatsfan

    homerpatsfan Rookie

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    we are all football fans. good to hear from ya, good luck next season
  5. ShrewBeer

    ShrewBeer Rookie

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    triggerfish, if i were you i would be livid this morning. after watching that dumbass coach of yours call a quarterback draw on third and seven. if that down is converted, your team wins. ugh. dont know how you can have a good attitude, but hey good for you. and thanks for the good luck wish
  6. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I saw so many comparisons between Pit v. Jax and the 2007 AFCCG.
    The home team had an 18point 2nd half deficit and the road team was undergoing a major meltdown (just like us last Jan). Like the Steelers, we went 3 and out when all we had to do was get a first down at some point in the 4th quarter to secure the win. Anyway, I am feeling nauseous just talking about it so let me stop.

    Otherwise, I enjoy watching 'Steeler Football' and am sure they will field a similar contender next year. Cleveland, Cincy, and Baltimore will be better than they were this year...so the Steelers are in for another tough year in a tough division.
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you are going to lose some games if you can't run. For everyone's sake Ben has to accept that or you're gonna lose a whole lot more games he throws or fumbles away. He is what he is, and wanting to routinely push the envelope because because his ego insists he is something more will be his downfall. He's not the $10-12M franchise player he thought he was born to be. He's capable of being a solid QB who can occasionally elevate his game in well managed spurts, but what Pittsburgh needs him to be first and foremost is a solid game manager who can elevate his game in carefully controlled spurts. They need to get back to their roots and be a smash mouth run first team with a complimantary passing game they feature only in select cirmunsatnces. They need serious depth at RB and they need to remain focused on fielding a stifling D because they don't have the kind of QB who can cover a multitude of weaknesses - he's got too many in his own game.

    I really think Cowher new that but he also knew it was going to be a difficult and painful lesson for Ben, and consequently the franchise, to learn. The situation reminds me a little of the one here in 1998 - when Drew was relieved to be rid of Tuna and his shakles and he proceeded to get a guy who would give him more freedom fired. Ben's propensity for recklessness, immaturity about it and his strong willed ego made Cowher's decision to move on easy (as was Tuna's). The coach and the system and that defense were what the Steelers were all about. Yes, they needed a QB who was a substantial step up from Slash, but they didn't need an 11th selection with a chip on his shoulder and a point to prove. He's becoming an increasing liability at the most inopertune times. He repeatedly makes really poor decisions, not just in forcing the ball into coverage but refusing to acknowledge the inevitable. Timlin and Ariens made a mistake in opening up the passing game and turning over the offense to Ben. He has too much ego at stake in the process to manage himself let alone it.

    He's so focused keeping himself alive to make the out of his ass play that he's not even seeing the field at times. He held on to the ball at one point last night for several seconds with at least 3 wide open receivers he apparently couldn't see, and ultimately he got whacked. He's not helping his Oline perform, he's killing them. Get rid of the ball and get on to the next play or the next series even with a D that can still make the stops. He is still a load to take down, but the load isn't moving as well as it used to. He's not really elusive any more. He said last night that it was all on him and he apologized to his team for his poor play. That's all well and good if he's really willing to sit down and look at what happened and why and correct his mistakes, and not just move on convinced it was a bad night. He needs to step back and quit trying to be the franchise and settle for being a just a valuable piece of the puzzle. He created a dynamic last night where Ariens was so afraid to have him pass on the last series they couldn't kill the clock or even change field position dramatically. One more first down and the game is won. Instead they muddled to 3 and out trying to avoid another pick.

    And Tomlin needs to take back control of the team as a coaching function. Right after he gets over the fact that it's not really as easy to win in this league as he seemed to think out of the gate. He was a pretty smug young coach back in September, but the football gods are demanding he pay his dues. He looked pretty queazy and almost dazed last night. Welcome to the ranks of HFL HC's Mike. Your QB can win a big game every now and then, but he is not a big game QB. Work around that or suffer the consequences. Cleveland is closing the gap, and Cincy may one day get their act together. You won't be a top 3 AFC power any longer unless you can get back to your roots.
  8. Triggerfish

    Triggerfish Rookie

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    Yea, that hurts a little, although I'm not certain that QB draw was a designed play. It did look like it was, an if so, you're right....very bad play call. But a huge part of Ben's problems thus far in his career is his ability to make quick decisions and reads. He wants so badly to make something happen, that often I think his body gets a little ahead of his brain. Let's be realistic, he's not exactly a cerebral player. He relies on his toughness and will to win more than anything. For example, he made a poor decision to try to run for that two point conversion attempt. He didn't NEED to yet, and had he given his receivers another second or two to create some space, that play might have been successful. I think part of the problem is he gets conflicted with "I need to pick up yards with my legs more often" and "I need to scramble and avoid the pass rush a little longer to make something happen". While both of these things are true, sometimes his decision on which one to do is flawed. We can sit here and point fingers all day, but that's a tough thing to develop as a QB, since these decision often need to be made in the matter of milliseconds. And once you've made that decision, you're stuck with it....good or bad. I actually think that the "fumble" that ended the game was a result of him trying to find someone to shuffle pass that ball to. If he would have just thrown it into the cheap seats, or even just secured the ball and taken the sack, he would have lived to see enough play. He's just one of those players that is both really fun and sometimes really frustrating to watch, but I think in time he'll develop into a dynamic force in the NFL. Remember, he's still young and has a lot to learn. At least he's man enough to realize his mistakes, admit fault when needed, and move on.

    I guess the reason I'm able to stay positive after a game like last night's is because I see a lot of promise from this team. The organization has a lot of the keys in place to be successful, and I expect better days ahead for the Steelers.
  9. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    Very nice analysis Mo.

    There were any number of media analysts that observed that Cowher & the offensive scheme were working very hard to keep Rothlisberger from having to play outside his capabilities. And most certainly the approach of a heavy running game sets up less difficult opportunities for a QB when a passing play is then called as opposed to a QB having to precision pass and read coverage when the defense is allowed to concentrate on pass defense more.

    I'm not sure Tomlin has figured this out. In some ways it seems similar to coaches after Parcells and Belichick who couldn't or wouldn't understand Bledsoes definite weaknesses as well as his definite strengths - with predictable results.

    I have the impression that Rothlisberger is nowhere near a student of the game like Brady and Manning. Ben probably has no idea of how much his successes were heavily due to the very careful management by Cowher - and not having a clue about his own weaknesses does not bode well for him taking his QB performance to a next level.
  10. Triggerfish

    Triggerfish Rookie

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    Oh, and just for the record....another reason I'm not feeling that bad about last night, is the fact that we'd be facing the Pats next week anyway. Don't get me wrong....I'm as die-hard a Steeler fan as you'll find, but realistically I don't think this team is capable of beating a healthy Pats team on the road. It would have been HIGHLY unlikely that their season would have lasted more than one more week anyway. Still....I'd rather root for a losing Steelers team, than a winning Pats team any day. No offense of course...;)
  11. Triggerfish

    Triggerfish Rookie

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    Actually, I think your analysis is pretty good Mo. There's plenty in your post that I totally agree with. Nice work...
  12. snafu

    snafu Rookie

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    Triggerfish,

    I for one, will not be rubbing it in and I'm sure most the fans here will not. It's good of you to drop by despite last night's game.

    I have to agree with most of what you said. But you forget one thing. QBs are by nature an extremely confident lot. They cannot play if they are not confident. That is something Big Ben has and coaches shouldn't do anything to undermine that. Teams feed off the team leader's confidence. This game is as much physical as mental, at least at the NFL level. Having said that, I think he needs to put more into his film study. It looks like he is not really good at running complex a offense. He is one of the best when the play is broken and he has to run around and make a play. In that scenario, he has react rather instinctively and just look for the open man and chuck it down field.

    I actually wasn't looking forward to facing the steelers next week. You never know how they are going to come out and play.

    Good luck with the off-season.
  13. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    #18 Jersey

    He's not even close to being the student of the game that Manning and Brady are, but he's a more impressive physical specimen than either of them (though all three have great arms, obviously). That said, quarterback is more of a cerebral position - if it was all about athleticism, Vick would have been a hall of famer out of the gate. Roethlisnuts is still one of the better QBs in the league, but he's not anywhere close to a Brady or Manning... he has his ring, though, and it's hard to argue with that.
  14. MetalBleachers

    MetalBleachers Rookie

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    That's the only area where I disagree. going for 2 was the right call until the penalty. Going for 2 from 12 yards out? Just about impossible. Can't think of a time when that's ever been done.

    Went to the Pats/Steelers game this year and was impressed with the number and volume of Pittsburgh fans. Good luck in the off-season.
  15. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Why take 1 point? It was useless, zero value.
    Try the 12 yd 2pt play because if you make it against the odds, the Jags cannot win on a FG. If you miss you're no worse off than if you got 1.
    It was the right decision to go for 2.
  16. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

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    I can't think of a QB in recent years who has had Roethlisberger's ability to go quite so quickly from looking absolutely unstoppable to looking absolutely horrendous. He seems to do it not from game to game or from half to half, but from series to series, and play to play. I wonder if the phrase "bonehead play" is used as often in Pittsburgh nowadays as it was in NE during the Bledsoe years.

    Jaws has said all season long than Ben still has troubles reading defenses, and that sack that they telestrated last night summed it up perfectly; it started off with Madden thinking he was going to show that all the receivers were covered, but he ended up showing there were at least 3 different receivers that were semi-open at the worst.
  17. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Triggerfish,

    If the Pats can't be there, I always root for the Steelers. They are a no-nonsense team that plays football as it was meant to be. Sound Offense, and Sound Defense backed by a lot of erstwhile, very knowledgeable fans.

    You went into the playoffs walking wounded. Having both tackles beat up helped increase the pressure on Ben. Losing Willie and substituting a plow horse for a racehorse didn't help much, but he was game.

    I am also not impressed with your WR, although I will make time for Hines Ward any day. You need three good ones the way the rules have been distorted by NaPolian, and you only have 1 and half. But the Steelers will rise again... just not in the Patriots era.

    Good Luck
  18. Triggerfish

    Triggerfish Rookie

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    I agree with that call as well. As unlikely as it might be to make the 2-point conversion from 12 yards out, kicking an extra point wouldn't have done them any good. The extra point would have put it at 28-24, in which case the Steelers would have needed another TD to take the lead. Make the 2point and they only need a FG to tie, miss the 2point and you still are no worse off then kicking the PAT....need another TD.
  19. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i don't get big ben. he's starting to remind me of eli manning. great one series and asleep the next. there is no doubt that the guy has a boatload of talent, but can anyone, particularly any steelers' fan, give me some insight into his inconsistency?
  20. ewg_gestalt

    ewg_gestalt Rookie

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    Unfortunately, it was a "perfect storm" situation, because they were down by precisely 11 points--it made going for 2 almost a necessity. Ten or less points down, and they can kick the PA and tie the game on a FG on their next possession. Twelve or more points down, and they'd need another TD regardless of whether they went for 1 or 2.

    But, being down 11, the idea of getting the 2-point conversion and then being able to tie the game with a FG or go ahead on a TD was probably irresistible. Admittedly I agree that Tomlin should have reconsidered, but I can see why he went for it anyways.
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