I am frustrated with the "he doesn't fit our scheme" talk

[MaineMan]

The three areas of most concern to me are motor/football IQ, height, and potential weight. I have never understood why the various sites never try to guestimate what a guy can max a body frame at.

The Miller kid is a good example. He gets listed at 237 but can his frame take 265?

Yeah, I get frustrated by this, too. Some of the "2nd-tier" guys who actually show up at the All-star game and Combine weigh-ins will more often take stabs at this than the big cheeses, but they don't for every player, so it's inconsistent info. Every so often, though, you'll get three or four of those guys independently agreeing one way or the other.

Anyway, I have no objection to Miller as a player, even if he maxes out at only 245. My only real objection is to the idea that he's SOOoooo good that we need to trade nearly half our draft to take him at #7 or thereabouts. Just my prejudice, I suppose, but I'd rather take four players at various positions who grade out in the 6.6-7.4 range than trade those four picks for one guy who grades out at 8.5 - 9.0. In the long run, I think you inevitably get more total production (and wins) out of those four picks.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Here is the reason the height/length of the OLB is important.

When an OLB is playing in a two gap system they are frequently going to engage with a offensive lineman or tight end, try to hold them off at arms' length and not got squished, and then disengage to make a tackle, left or right, depending on where the runner is going to go. A guy like Vollmer or Gronk is going to eat up a short linebacker who is trying to do that.

In a one-gap system the linebacker is trying to get low and get by the same player. They're just going to go to the right or left of the blocker and hope that's where the runner is going or force the runner to hit the other side.

Now I haven't seen enough of Woodley or Grahman to know if they could stand up the big boys and then disengage, but that's the general principal.

I see you point but you should watch some film on Woodley and Harrison who are both not "tall" but do a great job setting the edge and not giving up any ground. Some guys have long arms and tall frames but do not use them well (Crable or Woods) and Harrison (6') or Woodley (6'2") but they use their explosive punch to set up the TE or OT and I know the whole one gap/two gap system difference but on Zone run to the right they have to react the same way.

When two football players meet on the field they are never standing strait up like they are being measured at the Combine. They both play with different knee bend and if a DL or OLB do not use their hands well they will be engulfed no matter the size. Leverage plays a important roll in this whole equation which has not been talked about. OLB's do work in more space so I would agree at 5 tech in a 3-4 we need a guy who is 6'4" and 290 lbs at the lightest as they work in a more confined area.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Q: I'm a B10 fan and I've watched enough of Heyward to know that when he's on, he's good. Haven't been watching his technique. Assuming he checks out in terms of motor and love for football, is Heyward a fit? 2-gap?

I know his father ate himself out of the league so it's a concern.

The reason I'm asking the question is that the Patriots didn't shy away from Seymour despite the fact that Seymour was energized and dominant as a junior, and a bit lazy as a senior. Seymour did not bring it his senior year, and really you could tell during his time with the Patriots that he doesn't bring it every play. He's not like Vince.

So, I guess I'm asking, is Heyward a viable possibility for the Patriots if his character issues check out?

He is a stud that stops the run, has a nice bull rush and spin move to get to the pass rusher. Having a player like him next to Wilfork would be a Patriot matchup advantage, both would require doubles which will free up rushing lanes for the LBs and anyone else that felt like taking a shot at th QB. Ofcourse Warren will silently play the unsung run stuffer on the other side. 4 year starter and Captain. He has got Patriot pick written all over him if he checks out ok with doctors. Could easily see it although I like others more at 17 and would rather see him at 28, I wouldn't be dissapointed having him as a Patriot. Instantly improves the team.

 

[MaineMan]

He is a stud that stops the run, has a nice bull rush and spin move to get to the pass rusher. Having a player like him next to Wilfork would be a Patriot matchup advantage, both would require doubles which will free up rushing lanes for the LBs and anyone else that felt like taking a shot at th QB. Ofcourse Warren will silently play the unsung run stuffer on the other side. 4 year starter and Captain. He has got Patriot pick written all over him if he checks out ok with doctors. Could easily see it although I like others more at 17 and would rather see him at 28, I wouldn't be dissapointed having him as a Patriot. Instantly improves the team.

Agree about Heyward. I see him as more well-rounded, less raw than Watt. At least a few sites (pre-Combine/Pro Day) have him sliding to the late 20s, due to his elbow injury, I assume. Might get our wish, there.