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How would drafting Brian Leonard affect guys like Evans, Pass, and Mills??????


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midwestpatsfan

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I have seen a lot of threads talking about how they loved Brian Leonard out of Rutgers for the Patriots as a FB/RB.

I have not seen much of Rutgers so I do not know what his playing style is, but with guys like Evans and Pass and Mills already on the team, is another fullback really necessary.

I know Mills is more of a TE/FB and is apparently really good at catching the football-more of an H-back. Is that the same as Leonard?

Is Leonard a guy that is faster that Evans? Can he catch the football. Is he a bruiser back that can get the tough yards and take some carries for Maroney. Is he someone who would replace Dillon over time or more of a Kevin Faulk replacement?

If he is a guy who can be an upgrade for both Evans and Pass at the fullback position and eventually take over Dillons spot, that would be sweet.

What do you guys know about him?
 
If he is a guy who can be an upgrade for both Evans and Pass at the fullback position and eventually take over Dillons spot
What you said is reasonable except that you aren't looking at Dillon in his prime, or even the same kind of RB as Dillon last year. He'll never be the monster power guy that Dillon is but if he bulks back up with muscle (he lost some weight to look like a RB for the Senior Bowl), he could be an 8 carry a game guy to take some carries off Maroney while also playing the Pass/Evans role.

He's more of a better Pass/Evans, though, as he's not a great blocker. He's a solid blocker and and effort blocker but not a monster.
 
Is Leonard a guy that is faster that Evans? Can he catch the football.

I'd be very surprised if Leonard weren't faster (look for "Brian Leonard" on YouTube). As for catching the football, he is Rutgers' all-time leading receiver.
 
I want to begin by saying I love Leonard and agree with the majority that he would fit perfectly on this team. But the problem is is that everyone seems to be sayign that right now in the media and on the messageboards. Becuase of this Leonard's stock is soaring and is probably at an all-time high, this is exactly why I think it is highly doubtful the Patriots draft him. The Patriots will not compromise their value system to draft a player they like unless they feel it is at an adequate position in the draft, with so many people talking about Leonard, my guess is that a team like the Texans grab him early second round before the Patriots ever have achance to draft him.

Plus don't give up on Mills yet, I know he didn't do anything his rookie year but even if he was healthy I really don't think he was supposed to, and there is no reason to think that BB is unhappy with who he drafted.
 
He's another Garrett Mills. We don't need both, as you say.

If we draft Leonard then he'll be the rookie that sits out his first year with the Pats like Mills did (and so many late-round rooks do).

Then in 2008, we see another Mills-Leonard clone and say, "Hey, Leonard didn't do anything, let's draft his guy." And then HE goes on IR for HIS rookie year.

I guess I'm saying I think we keep Mills and don't draft Leonard unless he falls a long way, not very likely. We never draft the media-hyped guys because they are always taken to soon.
 
He's another Garrett Mills. We don't need both, as you say.

If we draft Leonard then he'll be the rookie that sits out his first year with the Pats like Mills did (and so many late-round rooks do).

Then in 2008, we see another Mills-Leonard clone and say, "Hey, Leonard didn't do anything, let's draft his guy." And then HE goes on IR for HIS rookie year.

I guess I'm saying I think we keep Mills and don't draft Leonard unless he falls a long way, not very likely. We never draft the media-hyped guys because they are always taken to soon.

I see where you are coming from and I was thinking the same thing. If we draft Leonard, isn't it a waste of Mills. The thing that is selling me on Leonard a bit is that he can carry the ball. And I think that is a need for the Pats. Both Dillon and Faulk are over 30, have had injuries over the last couple of seasons are taking up alot of cap room each. I think both will be gone from the Pats by the start of the 2009 season. Now I feel Maroney can be the #1 guy, but maybe we should start looking for a replacement for Dillon now. A bigger bruising back for short yardage situations, and he is good at catching out of the backfield as well. Another guy I like with Leonard is Tony Hunt of Penn state and Dwayne Wright of Fresno State.
 
I have no quibble with those who say BB won't take Leonard higher than his assessed value to the team. We'll get a better feel for Leonard's potential value to the team as Free Agency develops. Evans isn't affected too much at this point. Leonard is a younger Patrick Pass, except the coaches will warm to him much faster. ;)

Pass plays Utility Back at 235, Leonard played FB his last two seasons at 238, but that was a "take one for the team" move to allow RB sensation Ray Rice run over everybody. Leonard tested at 4.56/40 for the Senior Bowl and weighed in at 224 since he was trying to market himself as a RB, the position he played before Rice came along. He can bulk back up and still be shifty enough to make a tackler miss in the hole or bounce a play outside. He's an excellent receiver out of the backfield (had over 50 catches his first three years at Rutgers) and a good lead blocker who can get better. Like most college players he needs work on blitz pick-up but he still gets good grades on my pay site. The one thing they emphasize with him, he is the type of player defenses need to account for, if you watched the Senior Bowl he showed you why.

Pass is faster, the problem rearing it's head for him is his recent injury history, not the foot surgery, the hamstring. We've seen how hamstrings don't like to fade away, Pass lost his best chance at improving his stock when he went down against Buffalo in 2005. He was tentative coming back in 2005 then reinjures himself after coming off PUP 2006. He's a Free Agent who is a known commodity for the Pats, including his hammy.

Evans is making the conversion to FB under Fears' coaching. Playing in the 250-ish range he's got the build to be a traditional FB while still having enough speed to break long gainers if he surprises a defense (see Minnesota). He's a good receiver out of the backfield and good on Special Teams. He can also take reps at TE if needed. He has also shown some locker room leadership from what I'm reading and seeing on the field.

We have another RB (Quadtrine Hill 6-2 228 - Miami) under a future's contract who saw time on the Practice Squad to end the season. Arguably he's competing for that Utility Back position of Pass'. He got a decent write-up coming out of Miami in 2006, but he's no Brian Leonard if the draft service evaluation is to be believed. Evans can fill in at the Utility Back role, he can take some of the short yardage runs to spell Dillon and Maroney as needed. Hill has the size to take some of those reps too, if he makes the roster.

Mills is a question mark, we assume he is going to fall into a Chris Cooley/Dallas Clark roll, more of a receiving TE/slot receiver type. He's smart and tough enough to learn Pass' Utility Back role, the one area he lacks experience is running the ball in traffic. Leonard brings that skill to the equation, as does Hill. Mills was also a LB in High School and College,long snapped, and was a Special Teams whiz. Hill gets high marks for Special Teams. Leonard was also a LB in High school but didn't get used on Special Teams with all his offensive reps at Rutgers.

One other thing, Leonard is a cold weather player from Northern NY.

Questions to ask going forward:

- What is Dillon's health status? What are his intentions? (I don't care what they pay him, that's BB's call.)
- Does shifting to a "zone blocking" scheme improve Maroney's field vision and blocking reads? Will his production improve? Does he become the "starter?"
- Does changing the blocking scheme disrupt the entire O-line/RB/FB/TE equation given the available personnel?
- What is Faulk's health status? Are there durability issues developing for him given his current role?
- Does drafting a younger receiving RB this season make sense behind Faulk? Does it make sense to get one who can develop in a (presumed) new zone blocking scheme?
- Assuming Mills is to be used as speculated, would having a Utility RB who can be used in the same manner be useful?
- Does liking an excellent college talent and wanting him for the Pats make me a bad draftnik?
 
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I have seen a lot of threads talking about how they loved Brian Leonard out of Rutgers for the Patriots as a FB/RB.

I have not seen much of Rutgers so I do not know what his playing style is, but with guys like Evans and Pass and Mills already on the team, is another fullback really necessary.

I know Mills is more of a TE/FB and is apparently really good at catching the football-more of an H-back. Is that the same as Leonard?

Is Leonard a guy that is faster that Evans? Can he catch the football. Is he a bruiser back that can get the tough yards and take some carries for Maroney. Is he someone who would replace Dillon over time or more of a Kevin Faulk replacement?

If he is a guy who can be an upgrade for both Evans and Pass at the fullback position and eventually take over Dillons spot, that would be sweet.

What do you guys know about him?

First off, Neither Evans nor Pass are currently on the team as they are UFA. Mills spent the year inactive and then IRed so he is a questionmark.

Yes, Leonard is faster than Evans. Yes, he can run excellent routes and catch passes out of the backfield. Yes, he is a good between the tackler runner.

Leonard would be a combination of Faulk and Dillon. Faulk in that he could be a 3rd down back who can block or catch a pass out of the back field. Dillon in terms of being a north/south runner who can get hard yardage between the tackles.

Think of Larry Centers in his prime and that is where I believe Leonard could accel to.
 
He's another Garrett Mills. We don't need both, as you say.

If we draft Leonard then he'll be the rookie that sits out his first year with the Pats like Mills did (and so many late-round rooks do).

Then in 2008, we see another Mills-Leonard clone and say, "Hey, Leonard didn't do anything, let's draft his guy." And then HE goes on IR for HIS rookie year.

I guess I'm saying I think we keep Mills and don't draft Leonard unless he falls a long way, not very likely. We never draft the media-hyped guys because they are always taken to soon.

No, he's not another Garrett Mills because Mills never ran the football in college. Leonard did. Mills is an H-back type player. Leonard has the potential to be a Larry Centers type Fullback.
 
If there is anything that we all should have learned over the past 2 years is that you can never have enough RBs. Period. Look what happened to the Pats in 2005. Look what happened this year.

Having Leonard being able be a "Larry Centers" type FB and Mills be a "Chris Cooley/Dallas Clark" type TE only enhances this teams ability to cover injuries. The more redundancy you have the better able you are to over-come obstacles without much of a fall off.

I think that having Leonard, even if the Pats kept Dillon, Evans, Faulk, and Mills in the backfield, would give them a versatility they haven't had previously and it would make it harder for defenses. Who would they cover? Would Leonard be lead-blocking or running a draw? Would he go out for a pass like Faulk can?
 
How long can Leonard last as a lead blocker at 224 lbs. Maybe 3 plays before his shoulders or back snaps into a million pieces.
 
How long can Leonard last as a lead blocker at 224 lbs. Maybe 3 plays before his shoulders or back snaps into a million pieces.

He was at 224 to show he could be a "true" RB. He'd probably bulk back up to ~240 if he played for the Pats.
 
How long can Leonard last as a lead blocker at 224 lbs. Maybe 3 plays before his shoulders or back snaps into a million pieces.

You do realize that the Pats used Patrick Pass and Larry Centers in this role with some good success, right?

Pass is 217 lbs. and Centers was 225 lbs.

However, Leonard could easily get back to his weight of 237 that he was playing at while at fullback. OH, BOR, though Leonard was supposedly a "FB" in 2005, he still had RB numbers with 173 carries and 740 yards as well as 55 receptions for 568
 
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OH, sorry BOR, but Leonard only played 1 year at FB. The other 3 he was the lead running back.
Leonard shifted to fullback in 2004, earning Pro Football Weekly All-American honors. The first-team All-Big East Conference pick missed the Syracuse game with a leg bruise, but he still led the conference with an average of 125.0 all-purpose yards per game. He led the team with 199 carries for 732 yards (3.7 avg) and seven touchdowns and ranked second on the squad with 61 catches for 518 yards (8.5 avg) and two scores to finish with 54 points. Leonard also had three tackles (two solos).

In 2005, Leonard was again named to Pro Football Weekly's All-American team, in addition to picking up All-Big East Conference accolades. Taking on a more traditional fullback role with the arrival of halfback Raymell Rice, Leonard still finished second on the team with 173 rushes for 740 yards (4.3 avg) and 11 touchdowns.

This is a pay site, but it's my source for the timeline.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=9412
 
Definitely a lot of love for Leonard, he has displayed a lot of versatility and production and would likely fit in well. Unless he is there at 60 I don't see the Pats taking him, but I will play...

  • Patrick Pass is not walking through that door. Scratch him from your dance card.
  • Evans would have a difficult time making the team if Leonard was drafted. He could make it based on ST and short yardage but would be right on the bubble if he was brought back.
  • Mills is more of a hyrid, movement TE or pass catching FB (H Back). He hasn't proven he can do either role at the NFL level but can play special teams and is only in year 2 of his contract, he would be ok.
  • Leonard could play STs and maybe get 8-12 snaps per game, maybe 5 touches and be used in a lot of formations (Single back, two backs, FB, 3rd down back).

In the end Leonard has more potential than Mills, Evans & Pass combined. He would be a lock to make the team, it wouldn't be out of the question for none of the rest to return. Although it is unlikely Mills would be let go after only 1 year, he should be much stronger and better able to provide some FB duties in 07.


I have seen a lot of threads talking about how they loved Brian Leonard out of Rutgers for the Patriots as a FB/RB.

I have not seen much of Rutgers so I do not know what his playing style is, but with guys like Evans and Pass and Mills already on the team, is another fullback really necessary.

I know Mills is more of a TE/FB and is apparently really good at catching the football-more of an H-back. Is that the same as Leonard?

Is Leonard a guy that is faster that Evans? Can he catch the football. Is he a bruiser back that can get the tough yards and take some carries for Maroney. Is he someone who would replace Dillon over time or more of a Kevin Faulk replacement?

If he is a guy who can be an upgrade for both Evans and Pass at the fullback position and eventually take over Dillons spot, that would be sweet.

What do you guys know about him?
 
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Leonard will not be there at 60 or anywhere close.
 
I corrected myself.

However, Calling him a FB in 2004 is BS. The guy led the team in carries with 173 and Rice wasn't on the team in 2004.

NFLDraftScout is a good site, but they do, occasionally, get things wrong.
I agree, calling their leading rusher a FB is a bit daft, but what are you going to do? I don't take any draft site as gospel, but it's the one I'm working my way through so I'm most familiar with their reports.
 
Leonard will not be there at 60 or anywhere close.

A lot can change between now and April but the lists I have seen have him in between 50 & 75.

NFLDraftScout - 63
Football Futures - not in top 50

Taking him at 28 seems like a reach, but so did Mankins.. now look at him.
 
We will see the combine results. However, three years from now no one will remember whether he is drafted #28, #58 or #78. What we will remember is that we have Leonard for an additional contract year, and that he is a major contributer to the team.

BTW, Leonard is well-qualified to be an everyday runner. He and Maroney could be a great one-two punch through the end of the decade. He projects to being much more valuable than Evans or Pass or Mills. Also, I would make every effort to re-sign Evans, rather than Pass (although they could both be in camp competing for a spot).

Mills has never been a running back or a fullback. Please re-read three times. He was injured in camp. He should make the roster as a receiver (TE or WR).

Dillon, Maroney, Faulk
Leonard, Evans

Mills is a bottom of the roster player. Evans and Leonard are not.








A lot can change between now and April but the lists I have seen have him in between 50 & 75.

NFLDraftScout - 63
Football Futures - not in top 50

Taking him at 28 seems like a reach, but so did Mankins.. now look at him.
 
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