How the Jones trade gave DeCastro to Pitt and Hightower to NE

[lillloyd]

I mentioned this in another post, that basically your trade with *Cincy*--a guard-focused team--at 21 effectively locked DeCastro into falling to our spot at 24.

The reason being, with Cincy out of the way, neither Cleveland (who was focused on skill position guys) nor Detroit (who'd choose the falling OT talent Reiff over the falling OG talent DeCastro) would take DeCastro.

Here's the kicker: it would not surprise me *at all* if the NE Front Office anticipated this, and targeted Cincy (rather than say, Cleveland) to essentially orchestrate the fall of DeCastro to Pitt, who would then almost certainly pass on Hightower in favor of DeCastro (a major position of need).

NE could then sit and wait to make sure the dominoes fell as they planned, and then make a trade to the *25* slot rather than earlier in the 20s, to grab a player they coveted in Hightower.

I certainly think the NE front office is savvy enough to orchestrate this sort of thing, and effectively kill two birds with one stone/trade, i.e. simultaneously trade up for Chandler Jones with Cincy, while at the same time making it *extremely* likely that Hightower would be available at 25.

It would not surprise me in the least if they had the 31-to-25 trade worked out ahead of time, and they simply pulled the trigger once they were sure that the intervening picks fell as they expected.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I mentioned this in another post, that basically your trade with *Cincy*--a guard-focused team--at 21 effectively locked DeCastro into falling to our spot at 24.

I think a slightly more accurate version would be that the Pats, if they traded up to 25, would be guaranteed either a fantastic value on a G, or get a LB they coveted.

 

[jmt57]

The domino effect is very interesting.

I was guessing that DeCastro and Reiff would both be long gone; Reiff possibly to the Bills at #10 and DeCastro perhaps to the Chiefs. Then later on, as you pointed out, Hightower to the Steelers was a logical scenario.


So what's the reaction to Day One from Steelers Nation, in regards to not only their own pick but also the rest of the AFCN?

 

[lillloyd]

I think a slightly more accurate version would be that the Pats, if they traded up to 25, would be guaranteed either a fantastic value on a G, or get a LB they coveted.

True, but I think New England's FO had to know that Pitt would take DeCastro over Hightower in a heartbeat.

I think we genuinely liked Hightower and would have been more than happy to draft him in that slot, but he was expected to go in the mid- to late-20s. DeCastro OTOH was expected to go as early as 11, and plays a position of much greater need for Pitt as we are abysmal at guard.

If you think about it, I'm sure NE would have had a more than willing trade partner in Cleveland at 22 (for maybe a slightly lower price too), who was probably targeting a WR before the Titans took Wright. I'm guessing Cleveland figured it could trade down a few spots and get Weeden or a different receiver. But if NE trades targets Cleveland instead of Cincy, DeCastro probably goes to Cincy, and Pitt takes Hightower.

Maybe I'm overthinking this. Then again, your FO is pretty damn smart, and I've got to believe they've got guys devoted to mapping these scenarios out.

 

[SONS_OF_BELICHICK]

I personally believe that Pitt would take...an O-lineman. With all of the injuries they have had there, you need to remember that Roethlisberger has been taking a beating year after year due to feeble O-line. The steelers go as long as Roth goes..I think they want to keep him up-right. I think BB knew this all along.

 

[unoriginal]

True, but I think New England's FO had to know that Pitt would take DeCastro over Hightower in a heartbeat.

ctpatsfan77 is probably more correct; the Pats probably didn't know that Pitt would take DeCastro over Hightower. But they had to know Pitt would seriously consider taking DeCastro over Hightower.

However, I don't think the Pats were interested in drafting a guard at all, even for good value — the OL of this team is considered the strongest area right now, or so we're told — and they wanted Hightower as bad as they wanted Jones, so they simply targeted their trade to give them the best chance of getting both, in the way you originally described.

Excellent outside perspective, by the way. Always nice to get that on this board.

 

[lillloyd]

The domino effect is very interesting.

I was guessing that DeCastro and Reiff would both be long gone; Reiff possibly to the Bills at #10 and DeCastro perhaps to the Chiefs. Then later on, as you pointed out, Hightower to the Steelers was a logical scenario.


So what's the reaction to Day One from Steelers Nation, in regards to not only their own pick but also the rest of the AFCN?

Obviously we couldn't be happier with the DeCastro pick. In my life anyway, the only *better* example I can think of where an overwhelming need intersected with a great-but-falling value was when Rod Woodson fell to us at #10 in '87. One (the only?) benefit of having terrible guard play on a good team is that guards never get much love in round 1, so it doesn't take too much to push a guard down several slots into our range.

NE's machinations also had the side benefit of pushing Baltimore out of round 1--I'm sure they would have loved Hightower at 29!--so we're happy about that (although to be fair Balt's FO knows what it's doing, and I'm sure will have a good draft). I liked Cincy's draft, Cleveland's not so much because of the Weeden pick at 22 (I actually like the player but that seems like it's about 30 picks too high).

We still have major needs to fill; I wouldn't mind if they selected another OL in round 2. But I imagine overall we feel a lot like you guys after Day 1: that we couldn't be happier with the high-round talent we acquired at positions of need.

 

[lillloyd]

ctpatsfan77 is probably more correct; the Pats probably didn't know that Pitt would take DeCastro over Hightower. But they had to know Pitt would seriously consider taking DeCastro over Hightower.

However, I don't think the Pats were interested in drafting a guard at all, even for good value — the OL of this team is considered the strongest area right now, or so we're told — and they wanted Hightower as bad as they wanted Jones, so they simply targeted their trade to give them the best chance of getting both, in the way you originally described.

Excellent outside perspective, by the way. Always nice to get that on this board.

Totally agree, BB and the NE FO couldn't know 100% for certain until he saw the picks unfold. But they are certainly capable of manipulating the board so that the most likely scenario worked to NE's benefit. (FWIW, Pitt had their pick to Goodell in about two seconds flat. That is, the "decision" between DeCastro and Hightower for them was not much of a decision)

LOL as a Steelers fan I sort of view BB as this mad evil genius puppeteer on draft day So it would not surprise me in the least if BB's trade for Jones also had Hightower->NE and blocking Balt from Hightower all in mind.

 

[Deus Irae]

Obviously we couldn't be happier with the DeCastro pick. In my life anyway, the only *better* example I can think of where an overwhelming need intersected with a great-but-falling value was when Rod Woodson fell to us at #10 in '87. One (the only?) benefit of having terrible guard play on a good team is that guards never get much love in round 1, so it doesn't take too much to push a guard down several slots into our range.

NE's machinations also had the side benefit of pushing Baltimore out of round 1--I'm sure they would have loved Hightower at 29!--so we're happy about that (although to be fair Balt's FO knows what it's doing, and I'm sure will have a good draft). I liked Cincy's draft, Cleveland's not so much because of the Weeden pick at 22 (I actually like the player but that seems like it's about 30 picks too high).

We still have major needs to fill; I wouldn't mind if they selected another OL in round 2. But I imagine overall we feel a lot like you guys after Day 1: that we couldn't be happier with the high-round talent we acquired at positions of need.

There's an interview around where Newsome is talking about his draft, saying that the Ravens have a group of 9 players targeted and that they're sure they will have some of them available when they pick. Either the wizard of Oz was wrong and his 9 are all gone, or there's still a couple of those players on the board and he thought the trade down for the extra value was a good idea.

He'll probably never tell us if he was wrong, but it would be nice to find out the truth.

 

[Keegs]

what i took from it was that the pats wanted Shea McClellin, Chandler Jones, or Donta Hightower.

When the Bears took McClellin (which i think surprised all), the pats immediately moved up behind the Titans (before they even picked) which would guarantee one of these 3 players.

It looked to me like they didn't move up behind Pitt until they were sure Pitt would pass on Donta Hightower. seemed like a gamble BB was willing to take.

Do I have this correct?

Can someone confirm that the pats definitely didn't trade up behind Pitt until pitt already made their pick for the Guard?

 

[lillloyd]

what i took from it was that the pats wanted Shea McClellin, Chandler Jones, or Donta Hightower.

When the Bears took McClellin (which i think surprised all), the pats immediately moved up behind the Titans (before they even picked) which would guarantee one of these 3 players.

It looked to me like they didn't move up behind Pitt until they were sure Pitt would pass on Donta Hightower. seemed like a gamble BB was willing to take.

Do I have this correct?

Can someone confirm that the pats definitely didn't trade up behind Pitt until pitt already made their pick for the Guard?

It was kind of hard to tell last night because the televised announcements were so behind the actual picks. But I do know that after the Cleveland picks, both Detroit (Reiff) and Pitt got there picks in almost immediately.

That section of the first round was probably where Goodell was most behind. i.e. the Pats probably had the info on Pitt's pick not long after Cleveland's pick at 22 was announced.

 

[lillloyd]

There's an interview around where Newsome is talking about his draft, saying that the Ravens have a group of 9 players targeted and that they're sure they will have some of them available when they pick. Either the wizard of Oz was wrong and his 9 are all gone, or there's still a couple of those players on the board and he thought the trade down for the extra value was a good idea.

He'll probably never tell us if he was wrong, but it would be nice to find out the truth.

Loathe as I am to say it, I'm willing to give Newsome the benefit of the doubt here as Balt is usually terrific on draft day.

Plus, the fact is there are a lot of really good players left in round 2 who were considered possible first rounders. They include players Balt would be interested in (particularly OL, e.g. OG Glenn, C Konz, or OTs Martin/Massie).

That said, I'm sure it smarts a bit for them to lose out on Hightower...

 

[Steve102]

True, but I think New England's FO had to know that Pitt would take DeCastro over Hightower in a heartbeat.

I think we genuinely liked Hightower and would have been more than happy to draft him in that slot, but he was expected to go in the mid- to late-20s. DeCastro OTOH was expected to go as early as 11, and plays a position of much greater need for Pitt as we are abysmal at guard.

If you think about it, I'm sure NE would have had a more than willing trade partner in Cleveland at 22 (for maybe a slightly lower price too), who was probably targeting a WR before the Titans took Wright. I'm guessing Cleveland figured it could trade down a few spots and get Weeden or a different receiver. But if NE trades targets Cleveland instead of Cincy, DeCastro probably goes to Cincy, and Pitt takes Hightower.

Maybe I'm overthinking this. Then again, your FO is pretty damn smart, and I've got to believe they've got guys devoted to mapping these scenarios out.

Nice thread, bro. Good job. Great to see the 'out of town' guys participate in a constructive manner. Hope you'll be more active.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Loathe as I am to say it, I'm willing to give Newsome the benefit of the doubt here as Balt is usually terrific on draft day.

Plus, the fact is there are a lot of really good players left in round 2 who were considered possible first rounders. They include players Balt would be interested in (particularly OL, e.g. OG Glenn, C Konz, or OTs Martin/Massie).

That said, I'm sure it smarts a bit for them to lose out on Hightower...

they're probably looking at upshaw now.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I mentioned this in another post, that basically your trade with *Cincy*--a guard-focused team--at 21 effectively locked DeCastro into falling to our spot at 24.

The reason being, with Cincy out of the way, neither Cleveland (who was focused on skill position guys) nor Detroit (who'd choose the falling OT talent Reiff over the falling OG talent DeCastro) would take DeCastro.

Here's the kicker: it would not surprise me *at all* if the NE Front Office anticipated this, and targeted Cincy (rather than say, Cleveland) to essentially orchestrate the fall of DeCastro to Pitt, who would then almost certainly pass on Hightower in favor of DeCastro (a major position of need).

NE could then sit and wait to make sure the dominoes fell as they planned, and then make a trade to the *25* slot rather than earlier in the 20s, to grab a player they coveted in Hightower.

I certainly think the NE front office is savvy enough to orchestrate this sort of thing, and effectively kill two birds with one stone/trade, i.e. simultaneously trade up for Chandler Jones with Cincy, while at the same time making it *extremely* likely that Hightower would be available at 25.

It would not surprise me in the least if they had the 31-to-25 trade worked out ahead of time, and they simply pulled the trigger once they were sure that the intervening picks fell as they expected.

I think you're right on target, with various contingencies and scenarios being prepared for.

Until the targeted players are available at a specific spot everything is academic.

My belief is that Belichick has these scenarios ready to go every year and typically has the ammunition to move up in the draft, but that the players he's wanted or valued in previous drafts haven't been there at the time a team with an interest in trading back is on the clock.

Not every team has the ability to do what Belichick does of course - thats why he tries to stockpile picks, so that when there are opportunities to move up, he can if he wants to.

This year things worked out.

 

[borg]

The Irvin and Weeden picks made it possible. Irvin extended the pass rusher field and Weeded got the Pats closer.

 

[Gumby]

It was kind of hard to tell last night because the televised announcements were so behind the actual picks. But I do know that after the Cleveland picks, both Detroit (Reiff) and Pitt got there picks in almost immediately.

That section of the first round was probably where Goodell was most behind. i.e. the Pats probably had the info on Pitt's pick not long after Cleveland's pick at 22 was announced.

Does anyone know?:

In the hall; can the war rooms see the submitted picks after accepted by NFL officials AND before Goodell actually announces?

I didnt watch (4am for me) but the stories said he was as much as 3 picks behind in announcing. So; if they didnt have something like a name-ticker; how does team 3 know that the guy they are asking for is even still available?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Does anyone know?:

In the hall; can the war rooms see the submitted picks after accepted by NFL officials AND before Goodell actually announces?

I didnt watch (4am for me) but the stories said he was as much as 3 picks behind in announcing. So; if they didnt have something like a name-ticker; how does team 3 know that the guy they are asking for is even still available?

Teams are informed when the selection is made.

Obviously, the trades were already worked out before hand.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Jeff Howe seems to be of the opinion that the trade was made after the Steelers' pick. Obviously it happened so quickly the Pats had to have spoken with Denver beforehand, and the trade was contingent on what Pittsburgh did - unless the Pats also had a second player in mind that they still would have traded for and drafted had Pittsburgh taken Hightower.

Patriots Turn Luck Into Draft-Night Fortune, Take Advantage of David DeCastro's Fall to Boost Defense - New England Patriots - NESN.com

Then, DeCastro continued to slide. Widely considered a top-15 pick -- and a top-20 selection at worst -- he tumbled to the Steelers at No. 24. Yet, Pittsburgh released inside linebacker James Farrior earlier this offseason, and Dont'a Hightower looked like a perfect fit for the Pittsburgh defense.

The only thing that got in the way was DeCastro. The Steelers' offensive line has been a weak spot for years, giving up an average of 46.7 sacks per season since 2006. So, while Hightower was enticing, the Steelers had to suck it up and take advantage of DeCastro's fall.

"As usual, the draft always takes some interesting twists and turns," Bill Belichick said. "You just never know how it's going to go, but as the players came off the board, we were able to execute a couple trades there."

Almost immediately after the Steelers turned in their draft card, the Patriots pulled off a trade with the Broncos, moving up from No. 31 to No. 25 to take Hightower.

Belichick was happy with the first-round showing, credited director of player personnel Nick Caserio with "handling" the trades and even noted he was surprised they could move up twice while hanging onto both of their picks in the second round.

"[Jones and Hightower] probably could have been [drafted] in either order, but we felt like we would have a better chance to end up with both players if it went that way," Belichick said. "Not that we were sure we would get the second one, but we thought we might have a shot at it."

Read more at: Patriots Turn Luck Into Draft-Night Fortune, Take Advantage of David DeCastro's Fall to Boost Defense - New England Patriots - NESN.com

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

The trade up w/ Denver to get Hightower was executed w/ full knowledge of Pittsburgh' s pick of an OG. In other words the terms of the trade were decided contingent on NE seeing the availability of the player they wanted.

NE lucked out. Several unexpected picks (Irvin, Poe, Weeden) set it up nicely. Cincinnati was a good partner for reasons that the OP points out.

Whether BB orchestrated the whole strategy as only he could or merely took advantage of the draft board as it unfolded is a theoretical point. NE now gets two high quality athletes to upgrade their defense.