How solid are we at OLB/DE and ILB/MLB

[mayoclinic]

Mayo, Spikes, Hightower... we are set at MLB

Carpenter getting lots of media attention today:

Carpenter getting noticed at minicamp - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
It Is What It Is » Bobby Carpenter on Bill Belichick: ‘I’m not trying to get inside his mind’
Bobby Carpenter looking for a home with Patriots - Extra Points - Boston.com
BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Bobby Carpenter proving to be a jack of all trades at linebacker

Carpenter's been getting lots of playing time at OTAs and minicamps, often working with the 1st team, FWIW. I have no idea what to expect from him - it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him not make the roster, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him make it and develop into a Ninkovich kind of guy (with versatility at MLB/ILB as well) over the next couple of years. No clue. He can do a lot of things, but whether he can do them well enough to stick is an open question.

 

[BlueThunder]

He's got a non-stop motor and is a ST ace.......that's 2 things working for him.

Now if he can play LB like BB and Pepper want...Pats have another nice pickup !

 

[mgteich]

Carpenter seems to have the early edge over White, Tarpinian and Koutouvides for a ST/LB spot. The open question is whether he can simply beat out Fletcher for his roster spot. This is good competition for 2-3 roster spots.

Carpenter getting lots of media attention today:

Carpenter getting noticed at minicamp - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
It Is What It Is » Bobby Carpenter on Bill Belichick: ‘I’m not trying to get inside his mind’
Bobby Carpenter looking for a home with Patriots - Extra Points - Boston.com
BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Bobby Carpenter proving to be a jack of all trades at linebacker

Carpenter's been getting lots of playing time at OTAs and minicamps, often working with the 1st team, FWIW. I have no idea what to expect from him - it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him not make the roster, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him make it and develop into a Ninkovich kind of guy (with versatility at MLB/ILB as well) over the next couple of years. No clue. He can do a lot of things, but whether he can do them well enough to stick is an open question.

 

[captain stone]

I really don't see a place for Koutovides on this team at all (barring injuries, of course).
I was pissed-off that he replaced AJ Edds on the roster last season; but now Carpenter
replaces him, so I guess we're even.

 

[mayoclinic]

Rodak looks at the edge rushers:

Shining a spotlight on edge rushers - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Interesting that with Scott and Bequette both around 6'5" Chandler Jones still gets singled out for his length.

 

[mayoclinic]

We're screwed ... Matt Millen likes our LB group:

It’s ‘backers to the future - BostonHerald.com

All kidding aside, Millen actually knows a thing or two about midfielders, and it's a decent read.

 

[Marqui]

Carpenter seems to have the early edge over White, Tarpinian and Koutouvides for a ST/LB spot. The open question is whether he can simply beat out Fletcher for his roster spot. This is good competition for 2-3 roster spots.

Other possible competition: if Andre Carter comes back (sounding like he will) and Justin Francis makes the team (always seems to be at least one surprise UDFA who does every year) is there a roster spot for both Trevor Scott and Ninkovich? Those 2 would be competing directly against each other meaning Scott could be gone unfortunately.

 

[mayoclinic]

Other possible competition: if Andre Carter comes back (sounding like he will) and Justin Francis makes the team (always seems to be at least one surprise UDFA who does every year) is there a roster spot for both Trevor Scott and Ninkovich? Those 2 would be competing directly against each other meaning Scott could be gone unfortunately.

I think Rob Ninkovich is a lock - he's close to being a "core player". Carter could bump someone like Cunningham or Scott. Francis could as well, or he could be counted as a "defensive lineman" since he plays inside a lot. In that sense, he may be competing as much with Warren, Brace and Pryor and UDFA Forston as with guys like Scot and Cunningham. Francis does look like an early front runner for the surprise UDFA roster spot guy, though it's still very early.

There will be plenty of competition, regardless of how you look at the positional breakdown.

 

[jah]

Other possible competition: if Andre Carter comes back (sounding like he will) and Justin Francis makes the team (always seems to be at least one surprise UDFA who does every year) is there a roster spot for both Trevor Scott and Ninkovich? Those 2 would be competing directly against each other meaning Scott could be gone unfortunately.

I have both Scott and Francis being cut, with a DE group of Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, Ninkovich (all playing the rush DE/OLB role), Fanene, Deaderick (the former two playing the run-stuffing LDE we saw last season with Ellis and Deaderick). I don't see any room for Scott, barring injuries. And given Scott's history, the injury will likely be his anyway.

That being said, I'd love to see at least one UDFA make the team. I'm personally pulling for Bolden taking the spot from Larsen or Addai, but I like what I've heard about Francis.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your analysis.

DL
We have Fanene, Wilfork, Love and Deaderick
The competition for depth includes: Warren, Pryor, Brace and the UDFA's

DE/OB and ILB/MLB
We have lots of competition, as we've discussed in this thread.

Carter is likely to take the roster spot of Scott or Cunningham as you say. A lot depends on how ready Bequette and Jones are for prime time contributions. I have no worries about Hightower, but counting on rookies to contribute early, all at basically one position is somewhat dangerous. When Carter is healthy, I think that I am fine with Carter, Ninkovich and Scott and Hightower). I'd hate to lose Scott until we see solid contributions form Jones or Bequette.

BOTTOM LINE
We may keep an extra DE/OLB or LB veteran on the roster because we have 3 rookies that will make the team in the front 7.

I think that it is reasonable for a well-run Super Bowl team to heavily count on one rookie DE/OLB/LB from Day One. I think that it is unreasonable to count on 2 or 3. We should carry veteran depth and insurance if we can (even if they end up inactive), as Belichick has usually tried to do.

I think Rob Ninkovich is a lock - he's close to being a "core player". Carter could bump someone like Cunningham or Scott. Francis could as well, or he could be counted as a "defensive lineman" since he plays inside a lot. In that sense, he may be competing as much with Warren, Brace and Pryor and UDFA Forston as with guys like Scot and Cunningham. Francis does look like an early front runner for the surprise UDFA roster spot guy, though it's still very early.

There will be plenty of competition, regardless of how you look at the positional breakdown.

 

[mgteich]

The Pass Rushers

Ninkovich, Bequette, Jones, Scott and Carter (and perhaps Hightower).

What's not to like?

And yes, I think that we can keep all 5.

If Carpenter earns a specials teams position, we are in fine shape.

 

[captain stone]

Rodak looks at the edge rushers:

Shining a spotlight on edge rushers - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Interesting that with Scott and Bequette both around 6'5" Chandler Jones still gets singled out for his length.

It's prob. easier to look longer compared to others if he also looks skinnier than the others.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's prob. easier to look longer compared to others if he also looks skinnier than the others.

Maybe. Jones isn't a string bean - he's 265# and probably putting on weight as we speak. Heavier than Scott, and not much lighter than Bequette. I'm sure that Jones' long arms also accentuate his length.

True vs. apparent height is an interesting topic - Andy Johnson and Pherein have been discussing it at length with respect to Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski. 2 guys can measure the same height and near the same weight, and yet look totally different, as do Graham and Gronk. Jason Pierre-Paul looks like he's much taller than his actual height. Again, long arms make a difference. Same with Aldon Smith. It's not a big deal, but it's kind of interesting.

 

[mayoclinic]

Everyone is hoping Hightower can add some pass rush ability, how about some coverage ability? The defense has been getting absolutely gashed in the middle for the past two years. We need some lnebackers that can cover. Mayo is solid, but he has some head scratching moments in coverage. The Baltimore playoff game comes to mind.

The Herald article I mentioned a few posts above quoting Matt Millen emphasized the difficulty of coverage for LBs:

"The place you can exploit, first and foremost, is your underneath coverages with your linebackers. Because that’s the toughest spot for young linebackers to learn,” Millen said. “There’s a few who get it. The kid in Dallas, Sean Lee, he’s good in both phases. We’ll see with the Patriots. There’s pieces there. We’ll see what Hightower does. They just unwrapped him. Now we’ll see what the present gives them.”

It’s ‘backers to the future - BostonHerald.com

Millen calls Hightower the "wild card" in how good the Pats' LB corps will be.

 

[mayoclinic]

DL
We have Fanene, Wilfork, Love and Deaderick
The competition for depth includes: Warren, Pryor, Brace and the UDFA's

Does anyone have some thoughts on Marcus Harrison? He's sort of the forgotten man on DL.

Harrison was considered a 1st round talent in 2008, but injuries (ACL in college) and off-field issues (drugs) caused him to slip. He had a good rookie year for Chicago and then tailed off a bit, and was cut prior to 2011 for coming into camp out of shape. The Pats picked him up and cut him a week later, but I was intrigued when BB re-signed Harrison this off-season, particularly given his history and issues. Either he's just a training camp body (more likely possibility), or BB saw something that intrigued him (less likely, but more appealing). At age 27 and at 6'3" 317# Harrison has the size and strength to 2-gap and has some penetrating ability. I'm mildly encouraged that we haven't heard anything about him - no news is good news right now. If he reports to training camp in shape and ready to compete, I'll be encouraged, though I suspect he's a real long shot. But he has talent, and it would be nice to have another live body at DT.

Thoughts?

 

[everlong]

Considering how quickly they cut Anthony Gonzalez, Harrision must at least be in shape. Hard to get too excited but hopefully he finally has his head on straight.

 

[mayoclinic]

Considering how quickly they cut Anthony Gonzalez, Harrision must at least be in shape. Hard to get too excited but hopefully he finally has his head on straight.

I wouldn't think twice about Harrison except that the Pats chose to re-sign him this spring. They could have picked up any number of camp bodies. And BB is careful about what guys he lets on the team who have a history of off field issues and a poor work ethic. So maybe he saw something. It's just a guess which is highly skewed by my desire to see another guy develop at DT, and I still wouldn't give more than spare change for Harrison's chances, but I'm intrigued.

 

[jah]

Does anyone have some thoughts on Marcus Harrison? He's sort of the forgotten man on DL.

Harrison was considered a 1st round talent in 2008, but injuries (ACL in college) and off-field issues (drugs) caused him to slip. He had a good rookie year for Chicago and then tailed off a bit, and was cut prior to 2011 for coming into camp out of shape. The Pats picked him up and cut him a week later, but I was intrigued when BB re-signed Harrison this off-season, particularly given his history and issues. Either he's just a training camp body (more likely possibility), or BB saw something that intrigued him (less likely, but more appealing). At age 27 and at 6'3" 317# Harrison has the size and strength to 2-gap and has some penetrating ability. I'm mildly encouraged that we haven't heard anything about him - no news is good news right now. If he reports to training camp in shape and ready to compete, I'll be encouraged, though I suspect he's a real long shot. But he has talent, and it would be nice to have another live body at DT.

Thoughts?

I'd be very surprised if he made it to the 53.

 

[Marqui]

Does anyone have some thoughts on Marcus Harrison? He's sort of the forgotten man on DL.

Harrison was considered a 1st round talent in 2008, but injuries (ACL in college) and off-field issues (drugs) caused him to slip. He had a good rookie year for Chicago and then tailed off a bit, and was cut prior to 2011 for coming into camp out of shape. The Pats picked him up and cut him a week later, but I was intrigued when BB re-signed Harrison this off-season, particularly given his history and issues. Either he's just a training camp body (more likely possibility), or BB saw something that intrigued him (less likely, but more appealing). At age 27 and at 6'3" 317# Harrison has the size and strength to 2-gap and has some penetrating ability. I'm mildly encouraged that we haven't heard anything about him - no news is good news right now. If he reports to training camp in shape and ready to compete, I'll be encouraged, though I suspect he's a real long shot. But he has talent, and it would be nice to have another live body at DT.

Thoughts?

It sure would be, and I think Forston also has a chance to be that if he's over his injury issues. Like Harrison he was once considered a 1st round prospect.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd be very surprised if he made it to the 53.

Me too, as I indicated in my original post. But then, I'm somewhat surprised that he's on the squad at all.