How important is Wilfork to the Pats?

[Sicilian]

Wilfork is a tough situation for me to have an opinion on. On the one hand he is very valuable to the run defense, especially with a question mark at RDE. He's also one of the few veteran leaders left on this team after the departure of Seymour, Harrison, Vrabel, and Bruschi. That increases his value for the short term while we rebuild this defense's identity.

On the other hand, he's a part time player. And regardless of what happens this year, I believe (pure speculation, but it's a hunch) that there WILL be a cap once a new CBA is agreed upon. Tying up too much future cap money on a player who plays 2 downs (not to mention big guys break down more often) and it's questionable.

I think overall though I want him to stay. I just don't see a reasonable way to replace him right now.

 

[GoWhalers]

Wilfork had 43 tackles in 13 games this season as a 3-4 nose tackle. No sacks, but 3-4 NTs rarely get sacks.

Based purely on my observations watching the games this season, I'm going to guess that 90% of those 43 tackles were within 1 yard or less of the line of scrimmage. Those are drive killers and as good as a sack in my book.

For comparison's sake against other 3-4 nose tackles:
Casey Hampton had 43 tackles and 1 sack in 16 games
B.J. Raji had 25 tackles and 1 sack in 13 games
Haloti Ngata had 35 tackles and 1.5 sacks in 15 games

"I don't get sacks," Wilfork said. "I don't get tackles for losses. A 2-yard gain, for me, I like that." This is the self-deprecating attitude found in even the best nose tackles.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=4701183

The guy is elite, but our linebackers were not able to take advantage of that this year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wilfork had 43 tackles in 13 games this season as a 3-4 nose tackle. No sacks, but 3-4 NTs rarely get sacks.

Based purely on my observations watching the games this season, I'm going to guess that 90% of those 43 tackles were within 1 yard or less of the line of scrimmage. Those are drive killers and as good as a sack in my book.

For comparison's sake against other 3-4 nose tackles:
Casey Hampton had 43 tackles and 1 sack in 16 games
B.J. Raji had 25 tackles and 1 sack in 13 games
Haloti Ngata had 35 tackles and 1.5 sacks in 15 games


NFL: Nose tackles such as Pittsburgh Steelers NT Casey Hampton and New England Patriots NT Vince Wilfork fill a huge role on 3-4 defenses - ESPN

The guy is elite, but our linebackers were not able to take advantage of that this year.

Ngata plays DT in the 3-4. Gregg plays the nose now.

Your points are taken though. Vince is an outstanding player. Personally, I just don't know if hes worth $30m in guarantees. Then again, it would be terrible if he moved on.

 

[Brady to Brown]

He's VERY important. That said, the Jets lost their monster in the middle mid-season and are in AFC game.

The Jets defense minus the monster in the middle is far better than the Pats.

 

[Badluck]

the most important player on our team next to brady

 

[IcyPatriot]

With our current linebacker core he is way important ... right behind Brady. But if we had 4 real good linebackers like before then we just 3 big strong 2-gappers to tie up the O-linemen. We did great under that system ... 3 Super Bowls ... so I'm not worried. Either we pay Vince or we stick Brace there and spend Vince's money on a few linebackers who can fly.

 

[slash83]

With our current linebacker core he is way important ... right behind Brady. But if we had 4 real good linebackers like before then we just 3 big strong 2-gappers to tie up the O-linemen. We did great under that system ... 3 Super Bowls ... so I'm not worried. Either we pay Vince or we stick Brace there and spend Vince's money on a few linebackers who can fly.

I see your point and understand what your saying, we could let Vince go and use the money saved on LB's who can fly. But the only problem is: A: what money LB's are going to be available B: Lets say we do upgrade at the LB position, how effective are they including Mayo without a mammoth like Wilfork taking at least two OL a play.

 

[sg14]

I think the trading of Seymour (or Wilfork as previously discussed) was all about money.
2) Seymour is a couple of years older.
3) I think Wilfork will less cantakerous to sign than Seymour, jus a feeling on my part.

Someone mentioned Kelley Gregg, FA in 2000, not even drafted, how I understand it. He is a newer version of that fire hydrant Burt the Giants had during their glory years, I bet BB would like a player like that.

He's as important as any defensive player only playing 50-60% of the defensive snaps can be. He's top 3-5 in importance on this team, as Mayo says, but I do think it's worth throwing the disclaimer in there that he is not a 3-down player.

Personally, I thought Seymour was more important b/c he could play all 3 downs. Clearly the coaching staff and FO thought otherwise. Granted, our run defense wasn't as good this year with or without Wilfork (4.4 YPC in 09 vs. 4.1 in 08; 110 YPG in 09 vs 107 PG in 08) - likely due to the linebacker player, but also the absence of Sey.

But let's put it this way - we have to re-sign Wilfork. If Brace had shown signs of life, maybe we'd have some leverage, but we need big Vince back.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Don't get me wrong, Wilfork is a great player, but the media, commentators and people on this board overrate him. It's probably because of a lack of talent and scheme, but the run defense has been worse since Wilfork has been a full time starter. With that said, there are two reasons the Pats need to keep him. First, because there isn't anybody better in free agency. Second, because it will create another need the Pats can't afford if they ever want to get better. Seriously, if they let Wilfork walk, NT will be the 1st priority in the draft as DE is already a need due to the trade of Seymour. If they continue this cycle of letting talent walk and trying to re-draft them, how are the Patriots ever going to get better at other positions?

 

[billdog3484]

i think wilfork is an essential part of the patriots. id liike to have him and 2 average DEs PLus above average pass rushing OLBs. i think there has to be some middle ground. i dont know if there are any OLBs available though, so its tough...obviously a ware or merriman type would be great but theyre either unavailable or guys you just dont want on your team. maybe theres an LT in the draft

 

[Jangles]

Me either. One of the more mysterious lines ever typed here...

He meant Sanchez is so bad you could put all 11 guys in the box and he still might struggle to hit a WR

The game plan against the Jets is to stop the run. If you stop the run and force Sanchez to beat you, well the Jets are going home

 

[Jangles]

the most important player on our team next to brady

Somewhere Wes Welker is adding your name to his list

 

[patsfan-1982]

wilfork, is all most as important. as seymour, was to the front 3 but they still traded him. the fact is it takes 11 guys to play defense. wilfork can't make every tackel all he can do is make it hard to run up the middle.



as far as why the ravens were able to run for 234 yerds in the playoffs and only 116 in week 4


#1 brady was able to move the ball a lil more and put points on the bord. so the ravens could not just run the ball they need it to throw to keep up with the pats


#2 the ravens only had 17 att in the runing game and still had 116 yerds thats about 5 yerds per att.


#3 Brandon McGowan, was a big part in stoping the run in the frist half of the season. and i don't know what happen to him he just hit the wall.



the defense. did not get worst let in the year. the offense got worst and that set the D back even more by puting them right back on the field. after only a min or two.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

wilfork, is all most as important. as seymour, was to the front 3 but they still traded him. the fact is it takes 11 guys to play defense. wilfork can't make every tackel all he can do is make it hard to run up the middle.



as far as why the ravens were able to run for 234 yerds in the playoffs and only 116 in week 4


#1 brady was able to move the ball a lil more and put points on the bord. so the ravens could not just run the ball they need it to throw to keep up with the pats


#2 the ravens only had 17 att in the runing game and still had 116 yerds thats about 5 yerds per att.


#3 Brandon McGowan, was a big part in stoping the run in the frist half of the season. and i don't know what happen to him he just hit the wall.



the defense. did not get worst let in the year. the offense got worst and that set the D back even more by puting them right back on the field. after only a min or two.

I think the story of the Ravens game is that they got the lead; our offense went into the tank; Brady laid an egg and so the Ravens kept running the ball. As you said our offense and especially Brady played miserably. Since we could not put any points on the board, there was no reason for the Ravens to throw the ball. The defense gave up the lead and the offense kept the defense from redeeming themselves.

Wilfork is a great player, and without him healthy, our run defense was definitely not at 100%. But I think Guyton, Mayo and Merriweather needed to step up in run support and they didn't.

At the end of the day, if you want to improve the run defense of the Patriots, the middle needs to get tougher. Some options available:

1.) Draft Mt. Cody. Instant run defense, no more playing on skates. Lbers are free to roam sideline to sideline.
2.) Replace Mayo and Guyton with McClain and Dansby. For all the talk about what a great player Mayo is, the fact remains, he makes very few big plays. I can find a 100 LBers to make tackles 3 or 4 yards down field, which is basically all Mayo does for us. And Guyton's ceiling is a backup at best. The really sad thing is I think Guyton outplayed Mayo this year and if Guyton is best as a backup, that makes Mayo nothing more than a glorified ST player.
3.) Move Merriweather to FS and bring in a dominant head hunting SS.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

1.) Draft Mt. Cody. Instant run defense, no more playing on skates. Lbers are free to roam sideline to sideline.

I don't understand, does he replace Wilfork? If that's the case, I'd rather re-sign Wilfork and draft McClain or a pass rusher. If we keep replacing the players we lose, how will the Pats ever improve in other areas?

2.) Replace Mayo and Guyton with McClain and Dansby.

I'm not sure Dansby is a the type of LB that wants clean up duty which is what the Pats need. I think drafting a physical LB like McClain would be the better option. I had high hopes for Guyton, but he is a back up at best. He's similar to Kevin Burnett - not a full time starter but a good pass coverage LB.

For all the talk about what a great player Mayo is, the fact remains, he makes very few big plays. I can find a 100 LBers to make tackles 3 or 4 yards down field, which is basically all Mayo does for us.

Get ready to get blasted for this as I have for saying the exact same thing. However, I think Mayo could be a better player if he is used differently. For instance, he's not a physical LB or a LB that is going to do the dirty work. He needs to more of a roamer like Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis and then we should see his play making skills (if any).

3.) Move Merriweather to FS and bring in a dominant head hunting SS.

Merriweather needs to be used like Mayo should be used. Merriweather is not a SS and needs to be playing center field like Ed Reed. All the pressure is on Pat Chung to start at SS by next September of 2010.

 

[sg14]

These Mayo comments are interesting, I don't have any tape of last years games, and watch the game like a fan, so I'll see both types of plays from Mayo, the plug the hole with force, or down the field drag down play. He definitely looks like a speed player. And no way has the size and strength of a Seau or Pepper Johnson, or Carson.

What are the odds Dansby ends up in NE?? Pretty low in my book.

As far as the safety play we may have been spoiled by Harrison, had all the instincts of a polished vet along with the power. I always thought of Chung to be the free safety because of his speed, and thinking he was drafted for our lack of pass defense last year, am In wrong on this?

I don't understand, does he replace Wilfork? If that's the case, I'd rather re-sign Wilfork and draft McClain or a pass rusher. If we keep replacing the players we lose, how will the Pats ever improve in other areas?

I'm not sure Dansby is a the type of LB that wants clean up duty which is what the Pats need. I think drafting a physical LB like McClain would be the better option. I had high hopes for Guyton, but he is a back up at best. He's similar to Kevin Burnett - not a full time starter but a good pass coverage LB.

Get ready to get blasted for this as I have for saying the exact same thing. However, I think Mayo could be a better player if he is used differently. For instance, he's not a physical LB or a LB that is going to do the dirty work. He needs to more of a roamer like Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis and then we should see his play making skills (if any).

Merriweather needs to be used like Mayo should be used. Merriweather is not a SS and needs to be playing center field like Ed Reed. All the pressure is on Pat Chung to start at SS by next September of 2010.

 

[LiveShot]

They don't sign Wilfork the defense will be worse than this year by far. It'll be another rebuilding year. They must sign him.

 

[sg14]

On the Patriots.com "radio" show they were saying that the trade of Seymour right at that start of the season put a cloud over the defense, particularly Warren and Wilfork. THe reporters felt that neither of the W's were around in the locker room after games as much as in the prior years.

They felt Wilfork thinks of himself as "not a Patriot", ready to move to another team. And if gets franchised will a lose a ton of money, and could hold out, ala Branch,. and force trade at the last minute.

They were saying Wilfork has been a good camper, playing out his contract, but the FO has had 6 years to work out a deal to make everyone happy, and have not come thru.