Hopkins comments on trade with Patriots or Bills

[Kasmir]

Bourne isn’t a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. He’s a good receiver but he’s a #3 in any good offense.

The exception to that was 2021, when Mac-to-Bourne was the #1 DVOA combo in the league.

2021 Wide Receivers | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

That combo fell to what would have been 48th in the league if they had had enough attempts to qualify.

2022 Wide Receivers | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[n6249c]

The exception to that was 2021, when Mac-to-Bourne was the #1 DVOA combo in the league.

2021 Wide Receivers | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

That combo fell to what would have been 48th in the league if they had had enough attempts to qualify.

2022 Wide Receivers | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

Here are the Pats’ top receivers in 2021, per ESPN:


Bourne was close to top on yards, by far top for YAC. If he had been targeted as often as Meyers he would easily have surpassed him on catches and yardage.

This is why last year was such a disappointment. Bourne came in, did a great job in 2021 starting with pickup workouts pre-OTAs, had his best season yet, looked poised for another big jump in 2022, and then was the victim of coaching staff dysfunction. He got on the **** list somehow and things went downhill from there. He may be the player most damaged by that fiasco, despite all the anguish and worry about Mac who seems to be doing just fine this year. Will have to wait and hope that BOB gets Bourne back on track as well. If he does I think KB may surprise those selling him short.

 

[Family]

Here are the Pats’ top receivers in 2021, per ESPN:
View attachment 51338

Bourne was close to top on yards, by far top for YAC. If he had been targeted as often as Meyers he would easily have surpassed him on catches and yardage.

This is why last year was such a disappointment. Bourne came in, did a great job in 2021 starting with pickup workouts pre-OTAs, had his best season yet, looked poised for another big jump in 2022, and then was the victim of coaching staff dysfunction. He got on the **** list somehow and things went downhill from there. He may be the player most damaged by that fiasco, despite all the anguish and worry about Mac who seems to be doing just fine this year. Will have to wait and hope that BOB gets Bourne back on track as well. If he does I think KB may surprise those selling him short.

I don't mean to be riding Bourne, but that was a crappy group, and it was the best year of Bourne's career.

Hopefully with Parker, Thornton, and Juju this core is better.

Everyone knows that a lot was handled poorly last year by the offensive coaches, but that doesn't give players a complete pass. Bourne fell out of favor in SF. What happened there? For all his talent the Niners or their fans didn't seem to care he left cheaply. Bourne handled himself poorly last year. I thought he should have been used more, but he was publicly squawking early, so who knows what was going on privately from the start. That made things escalate, which helped neither side.

Bourne is a nice player, if used correctly, but he is no Deebo, nor is he a career #2, and he's been on two teams over six years. He should realize his value to a team, which exists, but it's not as the starting WR.

 

[Ivan]

Every team uses timing routes including the Patriots which was an important part of the offense…though maybe not as much any more. A lot of the E-P system is terminology.

You called it a timing system, which was Martz ran in St.Louis, and that’s completely different than a team having some timing routes in their playbook. And E-P is a system that simplifies offensive terminology by combing routes and protections in simpler terminology, which if anything would make it easier for Hopkins to adjust to, especially if O’Brien used it in Houston.

If you don’t want Hopkins here that’s fine, but you are wrong about the idea the system would be a problem for him.

 

[Ivan]

I don't mean to be riding Bourne, but that was a crappy group, and it was the best year of Bourne's career.

Hopefully with Parker, Thornton, and Juju this core is better.

Everyone knows that a lot was handled poorly last year by the offensive coaches, but that doesn't give players a complete pass. Bourne fell out of favor in SF. What happened there? For all his talent the Niners or their fans didn't seem to care he left cheaply. Bourne handled himself poorly last year. I thought he should have been used more, but he was publicly squawking early, so who knows what was going on privately from the start. That made things escalate, which helped neither side.

Bourne is a nice player, if used correctly, but he is no Deebo, nor is he a career #2, and he's been on two teams over six years. He should realize his value to a team, which exists, but it's not as the starting WR.

Belichick professes to love Bourne, and he was clearly the most talented WR on their roster last season, so it’s really hard to understand why he was used so little. It will be interesting to see how he gets used in 2023.

 

[Ivan]

Here are the Pats’ top receivers in 2021, per ESPN:
View attachment 51338

Bourne was close to top on yards, by far top for YAC. If he had been targeted as often as Meyers he would easily have surpassed him on catches and yardage.

This is why last year was such a disappointment. Bourne came in, did a great job in 2021 starting with pickup workouts pre-OTAs, had his best season yet, looked poised for another big jump in 2022, and then was the victim of coaching staff dysfunction. He got on the **** list somehow and things went downhill from there. He may be the player most damaged by that fiasco, despite all the anguish and worry about Mac who seems to be doing just fine this year. Will have to wait and hope that BOB gets Bourne back on track as well. If he does I think KB may surprise those selling him short.

I don’t see people selling him short, I see people contesting the idea he’s a #1. I like Bourne, and want to see him used more, but he’s not a #1.

 

[Family]

Belichick professes to love Bourne, and he was clearly the most talented WR on their roster last season, so it’s really hard to understand why he was used so little. It will be interesting to see how he gets used in 2023.

"Clearly the most talented" is what I am not comfortable with.

I think Thornton is pretty talented. Does he match up with Bourne? I think so and more, but we'll see.

Bourne is more talented than Parker if you are looking for specific abilities, but as far as football abilities; they are both seasoned vets, not young kids and their numbers are close (actually not really close, but don't want to debate lost years, more time etc.) Parker still has talents Bourne does not, which over a pretty long time, the numbers show.

And Meyers obviously gets more out of his ability than Bourne, but that's a talent too. Troy Brown was the #1 here with more talented around, so it's a meaningless comment when talking about Meyers, who has clearly always been the football #1 over Bourne from any eye test.

 

[Zuma]

You called it a timing system, which was Martz ran in St.Louis, and that’s completely different than a team having some timing routes in their playbook. And E-P is a system that simplifies offensive terminology by combing routes and protections in simpler terminology, which if anything would make it easier for Hopkins to adjust to, especially if O’Brien used it in Houston.

If you don’t want Hopkins here that’s fine, but you are wrong about the idea the system would be a problem for him.

The system is challenging for older WR’s to come in and learn.

I have been onboard with bringing Hopkins in and releasing Parker for at least 3 months.

 

[RIpats88]

Anytime Bourne got on the field last year heade huge plays. And yet Patricia because of his stupid grudge still kept him on the bench

 

[Ivan]

The system is challenging for older WR’s to come in and learn.

I have been onboard with bringing Hopkins in and releasing Parker for at least 3 months.

That depends upon the player and systems they played in before. For a guy like Reggie Wayne it would be very difficult as Manning was literally using his own personal system in Indy, whereas Hopkins has played for O’Brien before.

 

[Zuma]

That depends upon the player and systems they played in before. For a guy like Reggie Wayne it would be very difficult as Manning was literally using his own personal system in Indy, whereas Hopkins has played for O’Brien before.

Which is why I’ve been onboard with signing him…. BOB.

 

[Ivan]

The system is challenging for older WR’s to come in and learn.

I have been onboard with bringing Hopkins in and releasing Parker for at least 3 months.

I’m fine with their decision either way. Some think he’s lost a step, others think he’s still a top WR, I honestly don’t know because I have nothing to gauge it on. I’m sure they are doing their homework on him, so I have confidence they will make a good decision on him.

 

[Ivan]

Anytime Bourne got on the field last year heade huge plays. And yet Patricia because of his stupid grudge still kept him on the bench

Agree completely, I think Bourne was one of the players they reported that was challenging Patricia and Judge, and that led to the banishing.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Hopkins to NE would kill his career….

 

[Jim Beankie]

The exception to that was 2021, when Mac-to-Bourne was the #1 DVOA combo in the league.

2021 Wide Receivers | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

That combo fell to what would have been 48th in the league if they had had enough attempts to qualify.

2022 Wide Receivers | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

I don't have access to those links, but are you sure it's just Mac-to-Bourne? In 2021, Bourne had some of his longest catches (48yds CLE, 46yds JAX) coming from Hoyer for an overall total of 102yds out of the 800yds for the year. Just those 2 plays probably majorly bumped his DVOA.

 

[DaBruinz]

I can understand the logic for not signing Hopkins (age), but seriously???

This is Bourne's 7th year in the league with two teams, and he's never even been a #2, while Douglas is a rookie 6th rounder.

Thornton will only be better with Hopkins instead of Parker, who is a goner if this goes through.

Bourne was a legit #2 his 1st year with the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

Agree completely, I think Bourne was one of the players they reported that was challenging Patricia and Judge, and that led to the banishing.

Probably because Bourne had actual knowledge and understanding of the Shanahan Out-side zone concepts the Pats were trying to implement while Patricia and Judge were Clueless.

 

[Zuma]

Probably because Bourne had actual knowledge and understanding of the Shanahan Out-side zone concepts the Pats were trying to implement while Patricia and Judge were Clueless.

Which btw from what I understand not a single outside zone blocking attempt was run during the observed OTA.

Also you may have mentioned it but I completely agree with Thornton learning a lot from Hopkins instead of Parker. Signing Hopkins would IMO help Thornton’s career (Parker cut). I would love for the Patriots to pay Moss for a few weeks to Tudor (lol) Thornton if Hopkins doesn’t sign.

 

[Family]

Bourne was a legit #2 his 1st year with the Pats.

Bourne is listed as starting five games that year and averaged barely over 4 targets a game.

Is that the best example of being a #2 in Bourne's six years in the league?

Kendrick Bourne Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Kendrick Bourne. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Ivan]

Which is why I’ve been onboard with signing him…. BOB.

Probably because Bourne had actual knowledge and understanding of the Shanahan Out-side zone concepts the Pats were trying to implement while Patricia and Judge were Clueless.

Right on the money.