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Hey Pats fans, I have some questions for you (motivation, preparation, etc)...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DisgruntledTunaFan, Jan 17, 2008.

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  1. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Over on Cowboys Zone, we're having many, many long discussions on what went wrong recently. Among them are...did Wade's laid-back demeanor cause our downfall? Are they ANY firey leaders on this team?

    Anyhow, here's some questions about your team...

    1. What are some of the key things that Belichick does to motivate this team? I mean does he have Parcells' control-freak, balls-busting attitude? Or is he laid-back in the sense that he lets his locker room leaders like Rodney and Teddy motivate, keep focused, and fire up the team on a daily basis, especially keeping them from "eating the cheese"?

    2. If the going gets rough during the season where there's losses, how often would Belichick have his team practice in pads? And what other things does he do?

    3. In terms of the kind of talent Pioli and Belichick go after, aside from them being TALENTED, how do they scout the mentality and discipline of players? Just curious-b/c since Bill P came, it seems to me that while alot of them are very talented, they also seem to be undisciplined(i.e. Brady James, Patrick Crayton, Roy Williams, Jacques Reeves, etc).

    Anyhow-alot of the arguments that we keep bringing up is 1) Wade's laid-back approach ended up letting the players by into their own hype, and continued to not doing anything about it, 2) It's NOT Wade's fault, we don't have any "neanderthals" who constantly get into peoples' faces and emerge as firey leaders on the team(and FWIW-even Wade said in his PC that "He knows the changes that need to be made), 3) If you think it's Wade's fault for the team's lack of discipline, then why did we have this problem with Parcells?

    Anyways-I know this is a Pats board et al, but was wondering your feedback.

    Thanks!
  2. marty

    marty Rookie

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    Re: Hey Pats fans, I have some questions for you(motivation, preparation, etc)...

    Well I can send you a tape on this, but fair warning, it'll self destruct in 15 seconds!
  3. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Rookie

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    Re: Hey Pats fans, I have some questions for you(motivation, preparation, etc)...

    I just think Wade's stupid. You gotta be intelligent to make great decisions, have great instincts in all situations, and prepare your team well.

    I just think he's too dumb to do those things well, hence, he's 0-4 in the playoffs.

    Honestly I laughed when they hired him. That's why jones is over paying garrett to stay and promising him the job will be his soon. I think jones knows in the back of his mind phillips is a joke. Problem is, until he's replaced you have no chance whatsoever. I think the players like him because of his laid back approach which feels so much nicer than parcells, but it's been proven many times over being 'nice' doesn't work. just look at pete carroll. that's why he doesn't come back. nice works in college. not the pros. players get too relaxed and don't keep working on all the details and improving and playing with a sense of urgency. Herm edwards - same thing - nice to the players, dumb as a brick - everyone loves him, but he never wins.
  4. eom

    eom Rookie

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    Re: Hey Pats fans, I have some questions for you(motivation, preparation, etc)...

    I'm totally unqualified to comment on any of this, but I'll offer up my half-assed guesses.

    first of all, I think people tend to confuse perception w/reality.
    they see what they want to see, and do a pretty poor job of objectively determing cause and effect, specifically, what causes a result on the football field.
    what wins games is talent on the field and on the sidelines, and solid execution, so I have no way of accurately linking a coach's personality to his performance.
    all that 'revenge', player meetings, and 'chip on their shoulders' is a crock.

    I've never met Belichick, but my impression of him is that he's a pretty good guy, who knows wtf he's doing, and expects his guys to stick to his program.
    he not only knows how to win on the filed, but what kind of attitude is required from his guys to be successful, and he's got no patience for anything short of that.

    as far as what he lets his players do, and why they win and all that, I think is directly related to your 3rd question, which is probably the most relevant bit in all this.
    you don't just have a bunch of guys fall out of the sky and go win a superbowl with them.
    he's scouted and collected the exact types of players that he thinks will win, and this type of selection is based at least as much on the head as it is below the neck, if not more so.

    look at the average age of our linebackers that everybody's always crying about.
    that's a strength, not a weakness.
    look at the types of contracts that were offered to stallworth and moss vs the contract adalius thomas signed (at age 30, I believe).
    he built the foundation of this team w/a very specific type of player, and once you have that, add in brady, and some kickass game prep and play calling, you've got a pretty good recipe for success.

    either that, or he just tapes up quotes from the opposing team every week.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can't address the talent evaluation, other than to say they're good at it. Hey, guess what? From the looks of things, a team that snagged Tony Romo, Demarcus Ware, Terrell Owens, Terry Glenn, Marion Barber, et. al., can't be that terrible at it either.

    I can evaluate one factor that I've noticed as a Patriots' homer. It sounds harsh, but I'll call it "Loser's Syndrome."

    This is the state of mind in which one embraces what should be, publicly, rather than what is.

    A Belichick team is always prepared (okay, they're not as up for some games. They're human. But they're probably the best at this in the league.)

    The key to that approach is that every game, you're officially just another team. And it's not some kind of joke if you depart from that "script." Good old paradox: If you believe you're just another team, suddenly you can focus every game, and become something more.

    That's way more easily said than done. But let's look at some clear "intolerables..."

    When we played you guys, Crayton made one of those "they're not better than us, they just won" comments.

    Wrong answer. We were better, because we won. That's how you know who's better in a game.

    "Better on paper"? Doesn't exist. You're just another football team.

    Same thing with the loss to the Giants (though I might be thinking of their previous opponent? Dunno. It's okay if it's not the cowboys.)

    I think I heard a head coach saying, "it's too bad, because I really believe the better team didn't win."

    Yes, it did. The team that scored the most points won. You're just another football team. The score is the only reality. What should happen doesn't matter.

    I heard the same out of one of the Chargers last year, mixed in with the "no class" bullcrap. Wahhh.

    The goal isn't to run a charm school. It is not to have the best roster. It is not to be the most religious team or the one with perfect attendance.

    The goal is to win. Any of these strategies may be means to that ends. But the business of football teams is football.

    If your key guys are injured, you are not a better football team if you lose. If you win, you are. If the refs "seem" like they're calling the game against you, you're a better team if you win. If you lose, you are not.

    I've seen the Cowboys get confused now and then on this subject. Here's a Patriots secret - the Pats are never confused about that.

    They never want a ring they didn't earn because of the flu or because a key guy departed or because the Jets videotaped them (uh, they did...)

    They don't talk much about the past. When a team beats them, Belichick spends the requisite amount of surly time in front of the camera, and says we need to get better, and that starts with the coaching staff.

    I think what Belichick's given the Pats as players, is a purely internalized locus of control. That means they always believe they are in charge of their own destiny. It's hugely empowering... I believe that's why you never see the Pats feeling like they're out of a game if they're down a couple touchdowns (even before the Moss/Welker era.)

    Dallas only has a touch of that external locus to them... Baltimore (for example) seems replete with it. Surprise surprise... they lose more games.

    Okay, enough. I guess you see my point, such as it is. Anyway, I hope this answers the general question, even if the specifics are off the checklist you asked.

    PFnV
  6. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    I think it was back during the 2001 season or sometime in BB's early days here, he showed the team a documentary about Bill Russell. Well after the movie was over Bill Russell surprised everyone (besides BB) when he walked into the room and gave a speech to the team.

    Just recently BB did an interview for The NFL Today where he stressed that everyone on the team was a leader in their own way. That by just doing their job that they are leading. Interesting note... the Patriots were one of just a handful of teams who chose not to wear the new captain emblems on their jerseys. I'm guessing that instead of being a PR decision, it was made by BB with regards towards his "everyman is a leader" philosophy.

    BB has his own job too. His job is to serve the humble pie. During this past season, Wade Phillips seemed to serve the hubris pie instead.
  7. Truck

    Truck Rookie

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    Remember how Wade had Flutie and Johnson back in Buffalo?

    And Flutie brought the team to the playoffs twice in a row once Johnson got injured

    And Johnson was at best an average qb anyways; And Flutie was playing as a top 5 QB.

    Although Johnson was tall and Flutie was short.

    And Wade benched Flutie in the playoffs for the now healthy Johnson

    Remember that?

    I'm suprised he got another HC job after that. The guy is a moron.
  8. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Here is my observation.... those teams that stopped caring if they won once they clinched (Dallas, Colts, Seahawks, Steeler) will all be watching the Championship games on TV.

    Four teams that had meaningless games week 17, but played to win (Patriots, Giants, Green bay, Bolts) are still playing football.

    Yes, Farve was pulled but the team had 14 point lead. And continued to play to win with those who remained.
  9. rhodeislandpatsfan

    rhodeislandpatsfan Rookie

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    Bill Belichick is a football TEAM coach Nobody is bigger than the team and Wade is afootball PLAYERS coach. Their weren't any T.O. meltdowns because he kowtowed to him,they were winning so he got away with it. However the lack of disicipline is what did them in. The players need direction even the superstars. How is going to get better with Jason Garret looking over his shoulder and such impatient owner. It could end badly and quickly, you start losing and the T.O. carsinoma begins, I'm glad I'm a Pat's fan.
  10. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Without reading the other responses, here's my take on it.

    Bill Belichick is a winner first and foremost because of his skill as a tactician. He breaks down tape, discovers tendencies and - most importantly - knows how to exploit those tendencies.

    Secondly, BB has had great input into the players on the team that he uses to implement his offense and defense. He looks for people who want to play football. He gets people who are versatile. He finds men who are football smart.

    After this, he knows the basics and knows how to teach them. He gets coaches that do the same things he does so that players learn what is expected of them and are taught the techniques in order to be successful.

    Then, he is single-minded in his focus as you probably noticed. He is always focused on next week, the next opponent. There is no such thing as a distraction in Foxborough. Part of this focus is pounding into the heads of his players that their job is do do your job. They are not to do someone else's job; they are to do their own job. It's only as a team that they win or lose.

    BB knows how to keep the players focused on their work. Every game represents literally hundreds of breakdowns that need to be corrected. If they win, they focus on correcting their mistakes the next week. If they lose, he'll likely work on building them back up by focusing on the positive things that they do (while trying to correct mistakes as well). I don't think you'll ever see this team over-confident.

    He builds leaders in the locker room. The Patriots probably have as good a leadership in the locker room than any other team.

    He has the good fortune to have an extremely talented and hard working Tom Brady as his QB. Part of who TB is is because of being under BB, but part is simply because that's who TB was when he came to the Patriots.

    The players believe in him because they've experienced the truth of what he says. When they do the things he says they need to do, they succeed (i.e. win). When they don't, the opponent does well.

    Last but not least, he cares for his players and they care for him. This was obvious as the team rallied around him after the Chargers game. Clearly, this is a team that believes in their coach and cares for him.

    In summary, it's not one thing, it's many things that make the Patriots successful. Belichick is a master of the details, trying to get each one right. He's gotten so many right that sometimes it seems to be easy - but nothing is really easy in the NFL. It only seems that way when someone as brilliant, methodical and disciplined as Bill Belichick is coaching your team.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  11. SVN

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    i think the key thing which BB does is concentrate on football and asks his players to do the same. The media keeps writing how he has inspired spygate as a rallying cry and all but its all BS in my opinion.
    Another thing he does is he lets his veterans police the team . He himself rarely does it although everyone thinks so.
    And he doesnt criticize individuals in public.Anyone disciplined by the team is not publicized and he doesnt reveal what the issues were. As a player they respect it -i know vrabel once mentioned this. Every loss or bad play he owns full responsibility. Doesnt break down the play like every one else does-just accepts the mistakes and moves on. This is one of his biggest strenghts -accepting mistakes. From what i have read about him from the players , he listens to their ideas as well.
    Lastly its his focus on the task at hand . For e.g if BB was the coach of the cowboys and was asked about romo's mexican vacation he wouldve responded something like , "i dont have any comment on that,you have to ask tony that,We are getting ready for the giants". Instead wade wasted 5-10 mins how he doesnt police his players blah blah .
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just my opinion but BB fosters an atmosphere where the players will do anything for each other. It's not about yelling and motivation by fear. Wade Philips, and other "player's coaches" like Tony Dungy. The player's coaches seem to get teams to the playoffs but not to a championship. For all their post game comments, do guys like TO really play for their teammates - and do those teammates really go all out for TO?
  13. eom

    eom Rookie

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  14. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    1. He keeps the gas pedal down the entire season and if they don't do something well he makes sure it gets fixed and they continue to do the things they do well successfully.

    2. I think BB does alot of situational football, like what are you doing to do when it's first and goal on the 4 or two minute drill.

    3. We all know he gets smart players but he seems to coach them up so they are free thinkers and can make adjustments and know where they go.
  15. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    that motivational tool was awesome.

    he gets players that just love football and it's a top priority in their life and most of them are willing to work to improve.

    and it helps that tom brady is your top worker
  16. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One more thing, I think BB is more prepared - and therefore his players are more prepared - for any play over the course of a game than players and coaches on other teams. While another coach may say "we have to contain T.O.", BB will coach his team with something like "we have to be prepared for T.O. on the crossing route with a TE in motion when it's 3rd and long, so come up and pressure him before the snap" or something very definite like that (as opposed to the generic "we can't turn the ball over").
  17. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    DisgruntledTunaFan, just lift this and post it on your forum - it's as good an explanation as any you'll find on here. I'd just add - and this is touched on in this excellent post as well - the Patriots look for players who fall under the heading "FOOTBALL IS IMPORTANT TO THEM."
  18. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Oh, one more thing - Bill Belichick really LOVES studying football film, reading books, etc... and was practically BRED to be a football coach. He LOVES talking about football and he loves even more TEACHING it. So part of it is just that, football-wise, he really is a "special" guy who loves what he does, and is the BEST, by far, at what he does.

    Part of why the players follow him is that they are guys who WANT TO WIN (there's that "football is important to them" mantra again) and they continually experience BB telling them, "If you do this thing, that thing, and that other thing, WE WILL WIN," and it's always right.

    I've heard Brady and Bruschi (and others) say that, and also say that, when they HAVEN'T won, it's pretty much always because the team DIDN'T do those things he said they'd need to do to win the game.

    So there's a ton of faith there. Belichick has a tangible effect on their winning games, and a track record of success - so they follow him.
  19. PYPER

    PYPER Rookie

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    Belichick's style is much different than Parcells' style. He has a philosphy on every aspect of the game. From how to setup your locker room to offense and defense. Belichick has no interest in babysitting. He tries to surround himself with hard working players who truly love the game of football. Not just the glory and fame that the game can provide, but who actually love the game itself. Belichick always likes to keep a strong veteran presence on the team. Again, this comes back to his desire to not be a babysitter. A veteran team is much more adapt at managing itself.

    Belichick does an excellent job of "feeling" what his team needs. Sometimes that may mean extra practices in pads, sometimes that may mean an extra day off. He also is very aware of his veteran players. He has no problem with making one player work harder if thats what he thinks he needs while giving some of the vets the day off to heal. He handles everything case by case.

    This was answered above. It's about bringing in the right type of players. Players who are hard working and take well to coaching. Then it's about building trust. Belichick's players trust him. They know that if they do what he says they need to do, they'll be successful.

    And it's not isolated to just on the field strategy either. Every player that joins the Patriots gets an education on how to deal with the media. Basically they're taught that its the media's job to sell papers and build ratings and to do that the media tries to manufacture controversy wherever and whenever they can.

    The same controversies that sell papers can tear a locker room apart and distract the team from accomplishing what needs to be done. As such, you never hear Patriots players disrespecting other teams or any of that other nonsense. Belichick has complete control of his team.

    I think Wade is a very good football mind. He understands the X's and O's as well as anybody. Wade's main problem is that he's just not a very good leader of men. He lacks the "leadership intelligence" factor.

    Recall how badly he handled the Flutie/Johnson quarterback situation in Buffalo. There was no reason for that situation to get as ugly as it did. In fact, it only got as ugly as it did b/c of the way Wade completely mishandled it.

    Another example would by his comments to Peter King the week before his Cowboys played the Patriots. He made himself look like a total idiot there. And that's part of it. Outside of X's and O's, he's just not very bright.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  20. The Boston Patriot

    The Boston Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BB wants intelligent players who have a passion for the game. Failure without
    supreme effort is not an option for these players. He treats them like the
    adults they are and if they are not willing to take personal responsibility for
    their preparation and performance they will not be a member of the team
    for long if they don't get it. Every player on this team has to put his personal
    agenda on hold while they are playing football for the Patriots. There are no
    prima donnas on this team.
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