Here's why Mankins is a goner

[Fencer]

If 3 players hold out and get their reward because of it, there is no doubt the stigma of holding out is lessened and there will be more.

Good argument.

However, I think it is trumped by the fact that the union has a greater stake in protecting a few of its guys who are targeted by the owners than the owners have in punishing a few guys who didn't do anything immoral.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

he's not my boy

I'm just not some yahoo who thinks the BB regime is always right, that's all.

It's their job to make efficient roster decisions. If Dan Connolly comes through, they will look like geniuses. If he doesn't people will forget soon enough anyway.

I just found it strange the difference in philosophies when it came to dealing with wilfork (they go out and waste a 2nd pick on brace as a just in case, but didn't think to come up with an OG in day 1 or 2 with a much more ominous situation looming with mankins)

for this to have come out the way it has, there is a substantial portion of the story not being told right now, or people simply don't believe that mankins was lied to even though he was. which is what happens when acrimony shows up instantly the way it did. people don't flip out this way if they're not given some kind of misrepresentation. It would not be the first time for this organization

Ross Tucker who is a former OL who even played here for a time is now a writer over on NFP. He had an interesting piece up on Friday where he said there is certainly a disconnect but from what he can see it's the players and agents allowing themselves to form or feed unrealistic expectations of what a fair deal or their actual value is and then becoming entrenched. Everybody seems to think they're the top dog at their position and in line for a substantial increase over the last guy signed...including if he was signed to a stupid deal like Asamougha (whom Revis immediately assumes he should top). If it really worked that way they wouldn't need agents at all... Everyone would get within a dollar of each other...like they're all the best. :ugh: Agents are supposed to plead their clients case for the best deal they can get while running interference between the player and team (because some cold hard facts can be thrown around in the course of negotiation) and maintaining realistic expectations on the part of their client if the goal is getting a deal done.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That disagrees with Albert Breer's reporting, which I'm inclined to trust in this case.

It wouldn't be the first time Breer mis spoke, if in fact he claims that Mankins will be a UFA in 2011 whether he shows up or not. We don't know that yet because the CBA presently calls for 6 years of CREDITED service and Logan won't have that, and if the union again trades a handful of players away for something else they want, or the owners call the shots due to a union decertification to avoid a lockout, he may well remain a RFA...

 

[Fencer]

It wouldn't be the first time Breer mis spoke, if in fact he claims that Mankins will be a UFA in 2011 whether he shows up or not. We don't know that yet because the CBA presently calls for 6 years of CREDITED service and Logan won't have that, and if the union again trades a handful of players away for something else they want, or the owners call the shots due to a union decertification to avoid a lockout, he may well remain a RFA...

He didn't claim that. See the tweets I quoted to start the thread.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

He didn't claim that. See the tweets I quoted to start the thread.

We read them. Clearly Breer was stating an opinion "I believe". He cited zero facts to back it up. Me I don't trust his judgement. Why should I?

 

[Deus Irae]

We read them. Clearly Breer was stating an opinion "I believe". He cited zero facts to back it up. Me I don't trust his judgement. Why should I?

1.) Breer's wrong. The rules don't roll over.

2.) DaBruinz is wrong. The Patriots won't hold Mankins' rights. Those rights would be open for determination by the new CBA, along with the rights to every other player.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Another thing, this may be wrong but I saw stated that his rookie contract was $7M. If so, after taxes fed & state plus agent's fees, he's neted $3.5M. He stated when signed that he was buying a home. Rational, he has a family. In MA or CA he could well have spent $1M. 2005 to 2010 is 6 years. 6 years of living expenses of ~$250K is another $1.5M. That leaves him with $1M or more, not enough to retire on with a family and under 30.

 

[DaBruinz]

he's not my boy

I'm just not some yahoo who thinks the BB regime is always right, that's all.

No. You are some yahoo who has a personal bias against the Patriots and its fans. It wouldn't matter if it was Belichick or Ryan or Dungy who was the head coach, you'd hate them because they were the Head Coach of the Pats. Period. End of Story.

It's their job to make efficient roster decisions. If Dan Connolly comes through, they will look like geniuses. If he doesn't people will forget soon enough anyway.

I just found it strange the difference in philosophies when it came to dealing with wilfork (they go out and waste a 2nd pick on brace as a just in case, but didn't think to come up with an OG in day 1 or 2 with a much more ominous situation looming with mankins)

Ohrnberger says HI. So does Bussey. BTW, the talent at guard this year was horrid. They also added Vollmer with the possibility of Kaczur moving inside. The wheels fell off that horse, unfortunately, as Kaczur has a back injury that requires surgery and will be out for the year, if he's not done totally.

for this to have come out the way it has, there is a substantial portion of the story not being told right now, or people simply don't believe that mankins was lied to even though he was. which is what happens when acrimony shows up instantly the way it did. people don't flip out this way if they're not given some kind of misrepresentation. It would not be the first time for this organization

We all know that there is a substantial part of the story not being told. However, Mankins claimed that the Patriots would "Take care of him". Those were HIS words. His agent is the one who mentioned the deal being the RFA tender and then a 5 year extension. And I already showed you how that could EASILY be nearly 25 million in Mankins pocket in the 1st 3 years.. So, the agent's information basically contradicts the idea that the Pats lied to Mankins. Because they did offer him a contract that would take care of him. Especially if he's as frugal as he claims to be.

Now, as for a "misrepresentation," agents do that all the time. And History is filled with POS agents who mis-represented a team's position to their client. I can think of several right off the bat in Football, Baseball, and Hockey. Yet you would have everyone believe it's the PATRIOTS who are at fault even though, more often then not, it's come out that the Patriots did their utmost to work with a player but the player just didn't want to work with them.

 

[DaBruinz]

1.) Breer's wrong. The rules don't roll over.

2.) DaBruinz is wrong. The Patriots won't hold Mankins' rights. Those rights would be open for determination by the new CBA, along with the rights to every other player.

No. I'm not wrong. The rights wouldn't be open for determination by the new CBA. Why? Because of the RFA tender placed on Mankins. That doesn't go away. This is well documented fact. Just because you say otherwise doesn't make it so. And there is precedent already in this in sports contracts.

 

[IllegalContact]

Ross Tucker who is a former OL who even played here for a time is now a writer over on NFP. He had an interesting piece up on Friday where he said there is certainly a disconnect but from what he can see it's the players and agents allowing themselves to form or feed unrealistic expectations of what a fair deal or their actual value is and then becoming entrenched. Everybody seems to think they're the top dog at their position and in line for a substantial increase over the last guy signed...including if he was signed to a stupid deal like Asamougha (whom Revis immediately assumes he should top). If it really worked that way they wouldn't need agents at all... Everyone would get within a dollar of each other...like they're all the best. :ugh: Agents are supposed to plead their clients case for the best deal they can get while running interference between the player and team (because some cold hard facts can be thrown around in the course of negotiation) and maintaining realistic expectations on the part of their client if the goal is getting a deal done.

It's a matter of perspective as to what one might think someone is worth. You can blame the agents if you like, but you can also blame the FO's for using the CBA as leverage against guys whose time has arrived to get paid. If I was an agent , I would go outside the cab to get my clients paid.....I would have instructed mankind to hold out last year while he was still under contract. Especially given that the owners hide behind the cab to keep from paying guys who have outplayed their contracts.

 

[Fencer]

1.) Breer's wrong. The rules don't roll over.

My memory matches is, but I haven't focused on the subject much.

If we're both wrong, what would be correct, and do you have anything resembling a clear link to back you up?

 

[Fencer]

No. I'm not wrong. The rights wouldn't be open for determination by the new CBA.

Of course they are.

All you or I or Albert Breer can do is predict -- on whatever basis -- the terms of the next CBA.

 

[Patsrock]

I have a question, can the Pats just trade away Mankins RFA rights to a another team without him signing the tender offer? Trade him for draft pick(s) TBD?

 

[IllegalContact]

No. You are some yahoo who has a personal bias against the Patriots and its fans. It wouldn't matter if it was Belichick or Ryan or Dungy who was the head coach, you'd hate them because they were the Head Coach of the Pats. Period. End of story.

Actually, I love the pats. I just don't believe they are incapable of making their own mistakes whereas you obviously believe the only blame always liesbwith the players.

You keep spewing numbers and babble how he should suck it up and be hapyynwith whatever the pats offer him. Like you have all the facts. But you don't, and you're still acting like you know what should be done.

You're the yahoo, the zealot........you're a freak, more like a jets fan.

Stop acting like a pathetic victim.

 

[Deus Irae]

My memory matches is, but I haven't focused on the subject much.

If we're both wrong, what would be correct, and do you have anything resembling a clear link to back you up?

The CBA ends after the draft. After that comes the bargaining/negotiations. The league cannot unilaterally implement the same CBA, and neither can the players. What will have to happen is the back and forth with meetings, etc... If agreement is reached, the rules of said agreement will be followed. If agreement is not reached, what happens will depend upon the actions taken by the parties (a strike, a lockout or a "last best offer" scenario).


Edit: Here's one take on what could happen...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wm-david-cornwell-sr/there-will-not-be-a-locko_b_463803.html

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's a matter of perspective as to what one might think someone is worth. You can blame the agents if you like, but you can also blame the FO's for using the CBA as leverage against guys whose time has arrived to get paid. If I was an agent , I would go outside the cab to get my clients paid.....I would have instructed mankind to hold out last year while he was still under contract. Especially given that the owners hide behind the cab to keep from paying guys who have outplayed their contracts.

Hiding behind the cab...LOL

And it was a former OLineman turned journalist over on NFP who blamed the agents. He did say that teams might have to be more specific when talking to players based on Mankins admission that he interpreted we will take care of you to mean we will make you the highest paid player at your position... Heck, I could have told him it didn't mean that simply based on this teams track record. And lest we forget, you could also blame his union for allowing these players to be leveraged in favor of an uncapped season... You know, lots of players these days hide behind the CBA when it suits them, and their union supports them. That's one issues the owners want to address in a new CBA.

 

[Deus Irae]

No. I'm not wrong. The rights wouldn't be open for determination by the new CBA. Why? Because of the RFA tender placed on Mankins. That doesn't go away. This is well documented fact. Just because you say otherwise doesn't make it so. And there is precedent already in this in sports contracts.

Mankins RFA situation is due to the change in the years of service requirement, not due to him being Logan Mankins. Mankins has 5 years of service time. Therefore, if the new CBA has a service requirement of less than 6 years before a player becomes a UFA, Mankins will become a UFA.

 

[spacecrime]

I'm just not some yahoo who thinks the BB regime is always right, that's all.

There you go again, off on an irrelevant tangent.

This isn't about whether BB is always right. Where do you get this stuff?

This thread is about one specific case, Logan Mankins.

You are defending Logan Mankins and that is fine if you thing what he is doing makes sense. But whether Logan's actions make sense or not has nothing to do with BB. Only Mankins.

It also has nothing to do with Brady's contract or how much money Logan does or doesn't have in the bank.

 

[spacecrime]

Actually, I love the pats. I just don't believe they are incapable of making their own mistakes whereas you obviously believe the only blame always liesbwith the players.

You keep spewing numbers and babble how he should suck it up and be hapyynwith whatever the pats offer him. Like you have all the facts. But you don't, and you're still acting like you know what should be done.

You're the yahoo, the zealot........you're a freak, more like a jets fan.

Stop acting like a pathetic victim.

Alright, this is so far from reality there can be no rational response. Welcome to ignore.

 

[spacecrime]

IllegalContact
This message is hidden because IllegalContact is on your ignore list.

ahhhh. much better. on to football discussions