Haloti Ngata

[H8R]

Too early to tell. There's never been any denying Oher's raw talent, but he has certainly been subject to mental lapses and inconsistency in the past. He's reportedly been terrific for you so far, but I wouldn't compare 3 games to 3+ years of experience. We did very well out of our #23 pick and I didn't see Oher as a good fit for us; I'm glad you are doing well out of the trade as well (except, or course, against us).

Oher is a good fit anywhere. What are these "mental lapses" your talking about? He has improved ever since his first day in camp, he's an animal. He has EVERY SINGAL TOOL NEEDED. Not to mention we broke him in on the weak side, so that if Gaither leaves next year we can just move him over to the strong side along with a year of NFL experience. Gaither is also an awesome player, and X basketball player with great feet!

 

[mayoclinic]

Oher is a good fit anywhere. What are these "mental lapses" your talking about? He has improved ever since his first day in camp, he's an animal. He has EVERY SINGAL TOOL NEEDED. Not to mention we broke him in on the weak side, so that if Gaither leaves next year we can just move him over to the strong side along with a year of NFL experience. Gaither is also an awesome player, and X basketball player with great feet!

All of your players are great players, according to you guys.

Come on, get real. Gaither is a big guy who has been an adequate OT for you, but he is not dominant. Oher is a rookie with 3 games under his belt, and it's too early to tell how he'll fare over the long run. He doesn't see the speed rushers playing RT that he would see at LT.

Ngata has been dominant for 3 years. You haven't had a dominant OL since Jonathan Ogden. Oher may become one, but it's too soon to crow. Calling everyone "awesome" just diminishes everyone.

 

[flynismo]

I think one of the keys to the game is how we handle DE/DT Haloti Ngata. He is a beast. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if I had to pick any one defensive player in the entire NFL to build my defense around, it would be Ngata. Here's why:

(1) He's young (25). High character kid, no issues. Ed Reed is a fabulous player, but he's 31, with back problems.

(2) He's versatile. At 6'4" 345# he mostly plays DE in the 3-4, but can easily play NT, or 4-3 DT. To have the athleticism to play 3-4 DE at that size is incredibly rare.

(3) He shuts down the run. Despite the NFL becoming a passing league, stopping the run is still critical, and Ngata excels at that. In 2005 the Ravens were 9th in passing defense at 99.4 YPG (just behind the 2005 Patriots, at 98,8 YPG). Then they drafted Ngata. In the 3 full seasons since they have finished 2nd in 2006 (75.9 YPG), 3rd in 2007 (89.9 YPG, despite losing starting DE Trevor Price for almost the entire season), and 3rd in 2008 (81.4 YPG). They currently rank 1st so far in 2009, average a measly 51.0 YPG, over 10 better than 2nd ranked Tennessee. Even the 2000 Ravens with Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa in the middle didn't do that well, giving up 60.6 YPG. The 2003 Pats in comparison allowed 89.6 YPG rushing. The Ravens haven't allowed a 100 yard rusher since Ngata's rookie season.

Ngata hasn't posted the kind of sacks that Seymour did (4.5 in 3 years prior to this year), but to my mind he is the biggest impact 3-4 DL player since vintage Seymour. He doesn't have huge numbers on the stat sheet, but his presence on the DL is what allows Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, and Ed Reed to make plays.

Pass rushing DE/OLBs like DeMarcus Ware (25), shut down CBs like Darrell Revis (24) and play making safeties like Troy Polamalu (28) are all tempting, but a great defense starts on the DL, and I can't think of a better player to build around than Ngata.

I can't see Matt Light making much of an impact on Ngata. I'd like to see how Seabass might fare against him.

All homerism aside, Ngata would be the guy I build my defense around too. Defense starts in the trenches; and I believe Ngata has the best combination of youth, experience and talent of anyone out there.

 

[flynismo]

All of your players are great players, according to you guys.

Come on, get real. Gaither is a big guy who has been an adequate OT for you, but he is not dominant. Oher is a rookie with 3 games under his belt, and it's too early to tell how he'll fare over the long run. He doesn't see the speed rushers playing RT that he would see at LT.

Ngata has been dominant for 3 years. You haven't had a dominant OL since Jonathan Ogden. Oher may become one, but it's too soon to crow. Calling everyone "awesome" just diminishes everyone.

Gaither has shut down the best pass rushers in the league, with little to no help. In fact, most of last year he played basically one armed, and still kept guys like Ware, Harrison (three times), Mario Williams, Freeney in check. He is actually very under-rated.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It also shows that pro bowls mean nothing. 3-4 DEs don't get voted to a lot of pro bowls. Look at Ty Warren. Seymour has been the exception. Ngata has been the best DL in football in the past 3 years IMHO. The results show in the bottom line for the team, not the stat sheet or highlight films.

Agreed. Everytime I watch the Ravens, I just end up focusing on Ngata- he's unbelievably good. It just defies logic that someone can be so strong, so agile, and so quick.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think you take this guy head on and run the ball right down Haloti Ngata's Uvula

why? Their CBs aren't very good, and their defense is pretty exceptional everywhere else. Trying to run the ball down Ngata's throat might be the worst possible gameplan against the Ravens.

 

[flynismo]

why? Their CBs aren't very good, and their defense is pretty exceptional everywhere else. Trying to run the ball down Ngata's throat might be the worst possible gameplan against the Ravens.

Yeah, I think that if NE wins, it will be through the air. No disrespect, it seems like Fred Taylor continues to defy Father Time, and Morris and Faulk and Maroney form a dangerous crew, but trying to run the ball 40+ times would be playing into our strengths.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

Oher is a good fit anywhere. What are these "mental lapses" your talking about?

Oher had "work ethic" questions coming out of Mississippi.

Ironically, so did Ngata out of Oregon; Haloti undoubtedly slipped because of his lack of dedication.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

All of your players are great players, according to you guys.

Come on, get real. Gaither is a big guy who has been an adequate OT for you, but he is not dominant. Oher is a rookie with 3 games under his belt, and it's too early to tell how he'll fare over the long run. He doesn't see the speed rushers playing RT that he would see at LT.

Ngata has been dominant for 3 years. You haven't had a dominant OL since Jonathan Ogden. Oher may become one, but it's too soon to crow. Calling everyone "awesome" just diminishes everyone.

I definitely, definitely agree that many Ravens fans have overrated some of our players, but Gaither is a monster, and last season look like a perfect setup for a 2009 which would rake in a gigantic contract for Jared. If Gaither puts up another big year in 2009, then we may not be able to afford Ngata and Jared.

Our offensive line as a whole actually is very good, though, as Grubbs, who was our first round pick two years ago, could probably be a Pro Bowler this year, and Oher is looking good to complement Birk as well.

 

[jczxohn1]

IIRC,the yr. before Ngata was drafted was the biggest low spot of Ray Lewis' career. He pitched a fit about the D-line's inability to keep guards off of him, and Ozzie buckled and drafted Ngata. What has gone unsaid was the effect of satisfying Ray-Ray and ignoring a deplorable offensive line which led to the demise of Steve McNair and eventually Brian Billick. But then, Steve's dead and its all good now with Flacco, so who cares as long as Ray-Ray is happy, right? Not the first time someone has laid down for Ray.

 

[flynismo]

IIRC,the yr. before Ngata was drafted was the biggest low spot of Ray Lewis' career. He pitched a fit about the D-line's inability to keep guards off of him, and Ozzie buckled and drafted Ngata. What has gone unsaid was the effect of satisfying Ray-Ray and ignoring a deplorable offensive line which led to the demise of Steve McNair and eventually Brian Billick. But then, Steve's dead and its all good now with Flacco, so who cares as long as Ray-Ray is happy, right? Not the first time someone has laid down for Ray.

Yes, I'm sure Ozzie knew some psychotic idiot (who I suppose Ray probably hired to put the hit on) would murder one of the most beloved and respected warriors to ever grace our uniform, and somehow knew that if he drafted the most talented player in the 2006 draft would....actually I have know idea what your point is, so I have no idea where to go with this.
Show some class, you make the other Pats fans look bad by association.

 

[mayoclinic]

IIRC,the yr. before Ngata was drafted was the biggest low spot of Ray Lewis' career. He pitched a fit about the D-line's inability to keep guards off of him, and Ozzie buckled and drafted Ngata. What has gone unsaid was the effect of satisfying Ray-Ray and ignoring a deplorable offensive line which led to the demise of Steve McNair and eventually Brian Billick. But then, Steve's dead and its all good now with Flacco, so who cares as long as Ray-Ray is happy, right? Not the first time someone has laid down for Ray.

That's not particularly fair.

Ngata was far and away the best player available when the Ravens picked. It was a coup that they could get him, given that they had the #13 pick in the draft (see post #9 for a description of how Baltimore ended up getting him). There was no comparable talent at OL - arguably D'Brickashaw Ferguson, but he went to the Jets at #4.

Actually, most people thought Baltimore would take Winston Justice at #13, who wasn't rated as highly as Ngata but who was considered a top 20 pick. Ngata slipped a bit and the Ravens pounced. Justice, of course, case been a turnstyle at OT.

They had 2 needs and took the better player. What's wrong with that? Sounds like something we would do.

 

[mayoclinic]

I definitely, definitely agree that many Ravens fans have overrated some of our players, but Gaither is a monster, and last season look like a perfect setup for a 2009 which would rake in a gigantic contract for Jared. If Gaither puts up another big year in 2009, then we may not be able to afford Ngata and Jared.

Our offensive line as a whole actually is very good, though, as Grubbs, who was our first round pick two years ago, could probably be a Pro Bowler this year, and Oher is looking good to complement Birk as well.

I'll take your word for it that Gaither is underrated, and look forward to seeing him play on Sunday. Even so, there are other big, agile OT's. I would consider Ngata to be more of a Jonathan Ogden true "freak" - someone with truly unreal agility and quickness for his size and power. Only a couple of those guys come along every generation. There are many more who are very good - like 6'7" 335# Marcus McNeil of San Diego, who I would consider more comparable to Gaither. Good, but not unique, generational players.

Hope Gaither has a monster year and you can't re-sign both of them. We'll trade you our extra 2011 1st rounder for Ngata.

 

[flynismo]

That's not particularly fair.

Ngata was far and away the best player available when the Ravens picked. It was a coup that they could get him, given that they had the #13 pick in the draft (see post #9 for a description of how Baltimore ended up getting him). There was no comparable talent at OL - arguably D'Brickashaw Ferguson, but he went to the Jets at #4.

Actually, most people thought Baltimore would take Winston Justice at #13, who wasn't rated as highly as Ngata but who was considered a top 20 pick. Ngata slipped a bit and the Ravens pounced. Justice, of course, case been a turnstyle at OT.

They had 2 needs and took the better player. What's wrong with that? Sounds like something we would do.

wow, amazing that a Pats fan knows and remembers so much about our draft 3 years ago. Kudos.

 

[mayoclinic]

wow, amazing that a Pats fan knows and remembers so much about our draft 3 years ago. Kudos.

I always watch what Ozzie Newsome does in a draft. The man is a master. Moving back 10 spots to get Flacco is a typical move.

I have to say, though, one of the best moves Baltimore ever made was dumping Billick and hiring Harbaugh. Billick was a punk with an ego bigger than the state of Maryland, and he ran a horribly undisciplined team. I couldn't believe the 2007 game against the Pats when he was blowing mock kisses at Rodney Harrison. Baltimore was way too talented to go 6-10 that year, but lost a lot of games (several to inferior teams) due to sloppy and undisciplined play - including quite possibly the game against us. Rex Ryan has brought some nice swagger and confidence to NY which the Jets needed, but Harbaugh has brought discipline to the Ravens, which was much more needed at the time. The results are clearly showing. Kudos to your FO for making a good move.

 

[H8R]

Gaither is very much in the same mold as JO. The reason why Jared wasn't on peoples' draft watch was because he came out early he was put on academic probation, he came out early and was picked up as UDFA.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

I would consider Ngata to be more of a Jonathan Ogden true "freak" - someone with truly unreal agility and quickness for his size and power. Only a couple of those guys come along every generation.

Yeah, Gaither isn't Ogden, but JO retiring looked like it would create a huge hole on the left side of the line, but as you have noted, Ozzie somehow managed to grab a guy in the supplemental round in Gaither who has filled in at a future Pro Bowl level if his play doesn't level off.

Hope Gaither has a monster year and you can't re-sign both of them. We'll trade you our extra 2011 1st rounder for Ngata.

If any front office could pull that off, it would be New England's.

As flynismo mentioned, kudos to you for having great overall football knowledge.

IIRC,the yr. before Ngata was drafted was the biggest low spot of Ray Lewis' career. He pitched a fit about the D-line's inability to keep guards off of him, and Ozzie buckled and drafted Ngata. What has gone unsaid was the effect of satisfying Ray-Ray and ignoring a deplorable offensive line which led to the demise of Steve McNair and eventually Brian Billick. But then, Steve's dead and its all good now with Flacco, so who cares as long as Ray-Ray is happy, right? Not the first time someone has laid down for Ray.

All of this is pretty much true, but the second part was unnecessary.

Ray Lewis undoubtedly runs the Ravens, and there isn't a single doubt about that view in my mind.

 

[flynismo]

I always watch what Ozzie Newsome does in a draft. The man is a master. Moving back 10 spots to get Flacco is a typical move.

I have to say, though, one of the best moves Baltimore ever made was dumping Billick and hiring Harbaugh. Billick was a punk with an ego bigger than the state of Maryland, and he ran a horribly undisciplined team. I couldn't believe the 2007 game against the Pats when he was blowing mock kisses at Rodney Harrison. Baltimore was way too talented to go 6-10 that year, but lost a lot of games (several to inferior teams) due to sloppy and undisciplined play - including quite possibly the game against us. Rex Ryan has brought some nice swagger and confidence to NY which the Jets needed, but Harbaugh has brought discipline to the Ravens, which was much more needed at the time. The results are clearly showing. Kudos to your FO for making a good move.

Actually, we were even worse....5-11 that year. I could go on and on about that guy (I need to vent :violent: ) but dont want to derail the discussion at hand.
I'll just say that undisciplined is an understatement. The only good thing I can say for him is that I liked his passion, so I'll leave it at that.

And the game against the Pats in 2007 was trademark Billick B.S. Is it any wonder Bart Scott threw the flag in the stands, when our HC acted the way he did? There were a lot of reasons we lost that game. Some of our fans feel that we got jobbed by the refs and view this as a chance for revenge. I do think a few of the calls were....questionable. But, if our defense doesn't allow 27 points in the first place, the calls that went against us become irrelevant. But we were outplayed, outcoached....and outscored.

ahh, fun times

Look forward to Sunday though. Is going to be an amazing game. On top of that, both of our teams should get answers to some of the questions that we have about ourselves.

I would wish you luck, but you know......

 

[52decleetzu]

Gaither is very much in the same mold as JO. The reason why Jared wasn't on peoples' draft watch was because he came out early he was put on academic probation, he came out early and was picked up as UDFA.

Gaither was a 5th round supplemental draft pick, he was not an UDFA.

Many scouts said if he would have made it through the year in school he would have been a top 15 pick.

He didn't, and the Ravens hit the jackpot.

 

[flynismo]

If any front office could pull that off, it would be New England's.

Pat's management pisses me off! How the hell do these guys seem to have 2 first round selections every year??

And how do you rape Oakland not once (4th for Randy Moss :lol2: ) but TWICE (got WHAT for Seymour??) in a span of two years?!