Greg Jennings spurned Pats offer?

[Rob0729]

Trying to address the CB issue and actually addressing it are not the same thing. You've admitted that the majority of the picks dedicated to that area of the team were busts, so that's a good start. The fact of the matter is it took Belichick almost five years to fix that part of the team. It also effectively played a very big part in why the Patriots weren't hoisting the Lombardi at the conclusion of Super Bowl XLVI.

Unfortunately, using high draft picks or signing big name free agents do not guarantee anything. The best you can expect is for a team to try to address areas of needs. Let's say the Pats went after Asomugha rather than drafting say Butler, the Pats would be in worse shape considering the expensive bust that Nmandi turned out to be.

People have unrealistic expectations for the team. Look at our division alone. For the most part, the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins have spent a decade trying to fix their holes to be even relevant in the Super Bowl contest. Except for the two years the Jets made it to the AFC Championships (one was a fluke that they got into the playoffs), they have failed miserably.

Belichick on the other hand has kept this team in the hunt with two Super Bowl appearances (both could have been won if not for a play or two here and there) and three AFCCG appearances in the last five years.

Yes, Belichick has failed to fix certain areas, but he is keeping this team in the hunt. Does he need to do better in the personnel department in certain areas? Absolutely, but name a GM that doesn't (People consider Ozzie Newsome the best in the business and it took him over a decade in between Super Bowls). Is he the disaster of a GM that a lot of people like to make him out to be? Absolutely not.

The Pats went through a phase where they struck out a lot in the draft and free agency. Things in the last few years have turned around in that area especially in the draft. He has created a young defense with a lot of talent. This could be the year where it all comes together with Jones, Hightower, and hopefully Dennard having a full offseason, McCourty getting more acclimated to playing safety, Talib having time to learn the defense a little more, and other young guys maturing. Plus the addition of Wilson and a DE whether it is Abraham, Freeney, and/or Dumervil.

 

[PatsFan2]

With the Pats getting A.Talib much less that most of us thought you would think they would have been in the running for Mike Wallace or even Greg Jennings either would add a skill set that this Offense currently lacks. I just hope they have back-up plan because we need a legit WR in 20013. If Sanders doesn't work out I would be willing to part with a #1 for Victor Cruz if he is available.

 

[Rob0729]

With the Pats getting A.Talib much less that most of us thought you would think they would have been in the running for Mike Wallace or even Greg Jennings either would add a skill set that this Offense currently lacks. I just hope they have back-up plan because we need a legit WR in 20013. If Sanders doesn't work out I would be willing to part with a #1 for Victor Cruz if he is available.

Pass on both Wallace and Jennings. Wallace is an one trick pony who played school yard football with Roethisberger. He doesn't run routes. He just kept running while Ben ran around in the backfield until hr got open.

Jennings seems to be breaking down.

 

[BTTA]

If the team didn't have Tom Brady it would be a different team making different decisions. Teams with good QBs win, this one, in general, wins more than any other.

This needed to be said, and should be said repeatedly. The "if the team/coach didn't have Brady it wouldn't be winning" position is so silly. If it didn't have a highly paid star QB, it would have more highly paid players elsewhere, and thus would have a chance to win that way, like Baltimore has, and SF has and will, etc. A different road map. Apples and Oranges.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

If you want to kill the Pats for something, kill them for their drafting, or the snipe hunt that is their scouting criteria for DE/OLB and CB or WR in the recent past, not their prudent approach in free agency that is consistent with the teams that have been winning SB's lately.

The list of teams that made massive splashes only to flame out is endless...but so are most of these debates. Carry on.

:bricks:

 

[BradyFTW!]

I doubt the Pats would have bothered to make a $6M per offer, knowing that multiple teams were offering way more. What's the point?

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I like how having a winning record every year, AFC titles, playoff appearances but only three Super Bowls, is proof that what we are doing in free agency is wrong.

darn.

Yea, its time that Kraft took notice and hires one of our forum bloggers to run the team. They obviously look outside the box and see the game in a way that Belichick could never dream of! Make it happen Kraft!

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Brady covers up the ridiculous shortcomings of our cheap front office.

The Patriots pay to the cap every single year and are always one of the top highest spending teams every single season... I hate this term "cheap" that everyone loves to throw around.. They aren't cheap at all, they spend as much or more than just about every franchise in the NFL. They only give out mega contracts to key pillars that they'll build the team around like Brady, Mankins, Wilfork, Mayo, Gronk, A Hernandez, Richard Seymour, Ty Law (first contract), Adam V...

Just because a player that finds success here demands top dollar from them and they refuse to pay it all the time doesn't make them cheap.. it makes them frugal businessman.

How did Revis help the Jets last year sitting in an ice tub for the entire season, taking up like $16 million in salary cap space... I'm sure the Jets loved that! Yea, Revis is a crazy impact player, but if you invest that kind of money into a single player and he goes down with injury, your team is SCREWED.

The philosophy that the Patriots incorporate into their organization is a great system, although it can be frustrating at times for fans because when a fan favorite like Welker leaves, everyone freaks out and says they should have paid him whatever he was asking, blah blah blah.. That kind of thinking might make you competitive for a single year, but a year or two later your entire team is going to collapse around you because of the salary cap problems that it will create. Just look at the Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles (Remember their "dream team" off season?), and heck even the Ravens.. although the Ravens aren't a great example because they've always been a well run team, but once Flacco had his "elite" season and got paid at the top of the market, they lost like half of their defensive starters to free agency, including their top WR threat.

That's the NFL... there is a salary cap, unlike the joke of a sport baseball and basketball.. you have to follow the rules and abide by the cap.. That forces you to have to make tough decisions sometimes and I'm glad that our GM/HC and front office are willing to make those tough decisions and move on. Its a shame that our fans can never do the same... they let it linger and point to it for years as the reason they didn't win a SB or whatever.. its beyond ridiculous. If you think you're so much better at determining a players value, why don't you go apply and interview for the next NFL GM job that opens up and let us know how that goes.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

When it comes to paying for a game changing playmaker, ala, Peppers or Revis, you get what you pay for. When you have the worst ranked passing defense in the NFL 3-4 years in a row yeah you've got a problem. When any mediocre bum can throw for 4-500 yds against your crap defense you might have a problem. When you trade down in the draft year after year trying to capture "value" in the scrub category while your defense flounders, uh, yeah you have a problem. If this team didn't have Tom Brady, I doubt you'd be witnessing this level of consistent success. Brady covers up the ridiculous shortcomings of our cheap front office.

Also, Julius Peppers was vastly overpaid for what he brought to the Bears... I was one of those people that wanted them to pay Peppers whatever he wanted (i also wanted them to go hard for Mario Williams last year) but he didn't live up to his contract... He played well, but there were a lot of DEs in the league that had better seasons than him on far more team friendly deals.

 

[jmt57]

After reading this entire thread, I'm still trying to figure out how the Patriots not offering Greg Jennings more than $8 million per year has anything to do with the Pats not devoting enough resources to improving their defense.



:idontgetit:

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I don't have "an agenda" the facts are that it probably isn't BBs system since 10 onwards because his drafts stunk to high heaven from 06-09 and those players that should have been the core of the team aren't on it. The reason you see the success that you attribute soley to BB and his decision making is actually due to Tom Brady's greatness.

It's ironic that you point to the results when in actuality this hurts your point, the results are due to Brady. If he is even slightly off they lose, great "team" building right!

They did go 11-5 when Brady went down with an injury... Not a whole lot of teams could ever even dream of getting 11 wins if their starter went down in game 1 of the season. Hell, most teams couldn't dream of 11 wins with their starter healthy the entire year!

We have a fan base that is spoiled and has unrealistic expectations. The Patriots are in the hunt for a title every single year... That is more than you could ever hope for in a league with a hard cap that is so competitive..

Point to a team that has adopted this philosophy that you keep preaching about spending tons of money on "impact" players that has paid off with playoff and Super Bowl wins... Point to ONE team... Because from what I can gather, people have offered you plenty of examples of teams that have failed HARD by practicing the approach that you suggest.

Tell me something... how many "impact" players would you have on your roster if you were the GM? I'm very curious to know how you would build the foundation of your team... Would you just pay the top 10 guys on your team top market contracts and fill the other 43 guys with veteran minimum contracts? What would your strategy be... Oh and in case you didn't know, the Patriots currently have 6 "impact" players on their team that are paid at the top of the market for their positions.

 

[jmt57]

Our cheapness is consistent, if not hilarious.

Pop math quiz:

Which is greater?

(a) 9+6+3
(b) 12+4+1

 

[Sicilian]

Pop math quiz:

Which is greater?

(a) 9+6+3
(b) 12+4+1

Enough of your sorcery!

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Andy, I basically agree with you and hear you, but the stubborn refusal to get a pass rush or a good db since ***ante, has has cost us.

stubborn refusal?


2003: Eugene Wilson = 2nd Round
2004: Asante Samuel = 4th Round
2005: Guss Scott and Dexter Reid = 3rd and 4th
2006: Ellis Hobbs = Third Round
2007: Brandon Merriweather = 1st round
2008: Terrence Wheatley = 2nd Round
2009: Patrick Chung & Darius Butler = 2nd Round
2010: Devin McCourty = 1st Round
2011: Ras-I Dowling = first pick in 2nd round (#33)
2012: Tavon Wilson = 2nd round.

That is two 1st round picks and six 2nd round picks just on DBs, with a bunch more coming in rounds 3-4.. They have invested HEAVILY in the DB position through the draft, especially over the last 5 years.

Apparently you and I have much different definitions of what "stubborn refusal" means.

 

[Run DMC]

I didn't realize they taught mathematics in "homertown".
Most of the Pats fan base not on the internets is angry at the way WW was douched. Sorry if reality angers BB sycophants on this board.

 

[eom]

stubborn refusal?


2003: Eugene Wilson = 2nd Round
2004: Asante Samuel = 4th Round
2005: Guss Scott and Dexter Reid = 3rd and 4th
2006: Ellis Hobbs = Third Round
2007: Brandon Merriweather = 1st round
2008: Terrence Wheatley = 2nd Round
2009: Patrick Chung & Darius Butler = 2nd Round
2010: Devin McCourty = 1st Round
2011: Ras-I Dowling = first pick in 2nd round (#33)
2012: Tavon Wilson = 2nd round.

That is two 1st round picks and six 2nd round picks just on DBs, with a bunch more coming in rounds 3-4.. Apparently you and I have much different definitions of what "stubborn refusal" means.

he means stubborn refusal to do it successfully

 

[Run DMC]

stubborn refusal?


2003: Eugene Wilson = 2nd Round
2004: Asante Samuel = 4th Round
2005: Guss Scott and Dexter Reid = 3rd and 4th
2006: Ellis Hobbs = Third Round
2007: Brandon Merriweather = 1st round
2008: Terrence Wheatley = 2nd Round
2009: Patrick Chung & Darius Butler = 2nd Round
2010: Devin McCourty = 1st Round
2011: Ras-I Dowling = first pick in 2nd round (#33)
2012: Tavon Wilson = 2nd round.

That is two 1st round picks and six 2nd round picks just on DBs, with a bunch more coming in rounds 3-4.. Apparently you and I have much different definitions of what "stubborn refusal" means.

You realize everyone of these guys is either mediocre or a total bust(with the one exception of Mr "get paid"[who of course we didnt pay!]?
Oh, the irony.

 

[jmt57]

The hyperbole is the brigade of folks that come out whenever a thread like this is made and say LOL U WANNA BE THE REDSKINZ??? I admit some people want that, but I'm not one of them I just want to get an impact player instead of a couple vets that if they all work out it makes BB a genius, but usually only one of the 3 he gets for the price of one impact guy work out leaving you with one guy that isn't as good as the impact guy would've been.

Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Sean Smith, Dashon Goldson (bit expensive).

Rather have any of them than Abraham or Adrian Wilson. I like the Wilson signing, but it won't put us over the top.

At the same time the high priced impact player is not an automatic guarantee to success either. If you pay more for that one impact player, it is a riskier move if the player is injured or doesn't work out with the new team. Now you have more money allocated to one player, with a lower return on your investment.

The Bears are in my opinion a good example. If you look at their roster there is a large proportion of money allocated to the top 10-12 players on the team. In each of the last two years they have started out very strong, and then had a sudden decline when inevitable injuries occurred. All teams suffer injuries, but it affected them more so; the reason for this is that they had less money available for backups, so their backup depth was of inferior quality. Net result has been disappointing seasons missing the playoffs after a bunch of championship hype.

Personnel moves don't happen in a vacuum. Signing the 'impact player' means there is less money available for the guys like Donald Thomas, or quality special team players. Injuries are an inevitable reality in the NFL. In the example with three players, signing one higher priced player by default makes you weaker at two other roster positions.

No moves are guaranteed to pan out, whether it be a draft pick, a high end free agent, or a low price free agent. The philosophy of Kraft and Belichick has always been that the best formula to win in a league with a genuine salary cap is to try and spend throughout the middle of the roster. Whether you like it or hate it, it is hard to argue with the results, in comparison to those that would prefer to be more top-heavy.

Since this has always been their business philosophy, don't expect it to change any time soon. If you do, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't have "an agenda" the facts are that it probably isn't BBs system since 10 onwards because his drafts stunk to high heaven from 06-09 and those players that should have been the core of the team aren't on it. The reason you see the success that you attribute soley to BB and his decision making is actually due to Tom Brady's greatness.

It's ironic that you point to the results when in actuality this hurts your point, the results are due to Brady. If he is even slightly off they lose, great "team" building right!

This is an Excellent post on point.

 

[jmt57]

I didn't realize they taught mathematics in "homertown".
Most of the Pats fan base not on the internets is angry at the way WW was douched. Sorry if reality angers BB sycophants on this board.

So does that mean they don't teach mathematics in "haterville"?

With all the many stories coming out on the Walker negotiations, I find it extremely difficult for anyone that was not involved with the talks first hand to reach a conclusion such as yours; that goes for all on either side of the debate. That to me is reality.

And as far as who is angry and who is not, you may want to check the mirror.