Gillette attendance after Brady & Belichick retire.

[cupofjoe1962]

Convenient that, pardon my cynicism at the coincidence but it's obvious you are following the thread and it's interesting that you only responded after being called out on it.



Do you really believe those everybody gets in NHL de riguer Bruins playoff trips that fans knew were doomed to failure made the Bruins 'popular' and are the reason Jacobs was able to milk Bruins fans rather than their loyalty? Or are you really just that desperate to cling to an indefensible point? Because in the past 20 years they failed to make the playoffs 8 times and the faithful were still there. That most Bruins and Sox fans are/were loyal doesn't obviate that Celts fans aren't but it does blow a hole in the argument that Boston fans only support winners. It's fair to say that the jury is out on today's win spoiled Pats fans but you can not realistically say it about Boston fans as a whole





As someone that sat through those seasons that was a surprising mistake for you to make but at least you acknowledged it. I personally prized both of those wins, I certainly would never forget one of them.



Now it is my turn to admit a 'mistake' of sorts. I never saw what you were responding to, I have that individual's posts set to ignore.

Here:


You posited the Celtics after the Big 3 and the Patriots of the 80’s & early 90’s as proof of your premise the region will not support a team in decline. Yet for almost 4 decades after the Orr era the Bruins progressively declined to the point of treading water and yet continued to enjoy support disproportionate to their meager success, not to mention the Sox. The point being Boston in it's heart of hearts has long been a hockey and baseball town. It has never really been a true basketball town. The Celts have had periods of popularity but have never come close to attaining the substantial core of die hard loyal fans enjoyed by the B's & Sox, as a result they need to win to draw. Until the Belichick/Brady era the Pats never enjoyed more than spurts of popularity. They too needed to win to draw, the NFL itself was not ingrained into the regions sports DNA. The past 20+ years may or may not have changed that but to dismiss the possibility it has based on the example of the Celtics while ignoring the examples of the B's & Sox is making a very poor case indeed.

One last thought on that subject. By staying away in droves fans actually prompt owners to field a winner. In that respect Bruins & Sox fans that wanted a winner did themselves no favors for a lot of years. I know I struggled with myself over continuing to support Kiam's version of our team but I am a Pats fan and in the end that won out. I do have to admit I am not sure it would have continued to had his ownership lasted longer than it did.

True.... I responded when you pointed out that I had not responded. I had many people responding to my posts, & I don’t use I check list to make sure I respond to everyone.
Your post was quite long & I bypassed responding to it, to respond to the shorter posts.

Who could blame you for having AJ on ignore.
I should do the same. It would be addition by subtraction.

As far as the Bruins & Redsox go..... I don’t watch hockey or baseball. I liked them both as a kid, but I lost interest in hockey around 1990 & baseball about 10 years ago.

I stand by my original statement that the season ticket waiting list will disappear & the Patriots will have a problem selling out some (only a few) games if they have a couple poor seasons.

Now you are entitled to your opinion, but the history of the Patriots has shown that the Patriots fans have not shown up at the gate to support a bad team.

The same could be said for the Celtics & even the Redsox of the 1960’s. The Bruins fans may be the exception.

 

[fgssand]

I'll still go.

Ill be there with you....

 

[patman52]

Anyone 35 or younger all they know is the pats being a winning team. and the pats are probably their favorite team. Businesses are also on the wait list and that demand will not be affected by a return to 2 seasons of bad ball. Now the resell market will certainly be affected during those years.

 

[maust]

Who could blame you for having AJ on ignore.
I should do the same. It would be addition by subtraction.

Now you are entitled to your opinion, but the history of the Patriots has shown that the Patriots fans have not shown up at the gate to support a bad team.

The same could be said for the Celtics & even the Redsox of the 1960’s. The Bruins fans may be the exception.

Everyone's life would be improved with that subtraction.

The history of the Patriots has no bearing on the present. They have gone from being a niche team with a small group of us lunatics to being part of the landscape of the region. An entire generation has embraced our little team that couldn't. That doesn't evaporate. Brady has done what Yaz & Orr did before him and embedded his team in the consciousness of legions. The long waiting list of Johnny come lately pink hats may fall away but the core will remain.

Failing all else we will be there just like we have been for decades.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Anyone 35 or younger all they know is the pats being a winning team. and the pats are probably their favorite team. Businesses are also on the wait list and that demand will not be affected by a return to 2 seasons of bad ball. Now the resell market will certainly be affected during those years.

And that's why I think things will unwind faster than Kraft thinks. I think there are quite a few STHs that can't really afford the tickets but get by by selling off tickets to games they're less interested in so they only have to pay out of pocket for a few games (and maybe even turn a profit if they go the scalping route rather than ticketExchange or selling at face to friends & relatives).

Once the resale market decays and they're stuck paying full freight I think you'll be seeing people not renewing.

 

[1960Pats]

Orr B's were always sold out.

Ever sneak in the Garden through the roof? Every game, "The Screamer" would let loose from up in the rafters around the second period. Once it was right before a face-off and Espo laughed and looked upward...

Back in the 70's I worked with a man whose part time job was taking tickets at the Garden. All I had to do was walk through his gate with any piece of paper that resembled a ticket. The only problem with the Orr days was finding a place to watch from.

 

[Bill Lee]

I stand by my original statement that the season ticket waiting list will disappear & the Patriots will have a problem selling out some (only a few) games if they have a couple poor seasons.

Actually, your original statement was:

Do you think there will still be a waiting list for season tickets or problems filling the stadium after Belichick & Brady retire & the team has a couple of 3-13 seasons?

I note the lack of qualifiers such as "if" that you've now added.

Now you are entitled to your opinion, but the history of the Patriots has shown that the Patriots fans have not shown up at the gate to support a bad team.

I'm glad so many of you have such rosy memories of the pre-Kraft era. For some of us, our memories of a game at Schaefer Stadium are more along the lines of parking in a pile of mud wondering if we'd get our car out after the game, then working our way through seas of drunken fans ready to fight if you looked at them the wrong way, on our way to parking our warm butts onto a cold aluminum bench. I went once back then and had no interest in going back for the Pats or any other event till that place was blown up and rebuilt.

Point being, there's lots of reasons why people didn't support the Pats of the pre-Kraft era. Yes, part of it was the bad team, and another part of it was the bad owner just barely one step ahead of bankruptcy, and the bad junior college grade stadium, and no real tradition to get behind, and the crowd that had more than a few angry drunks ready to throw down.

And of course you're entitled to your opinion that Boston sports fans are fair weather fans, despite lots of evidence that they're not. I don't know why you feel the need to make the assertion, but knock yourself out.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I honestly don't know. But, if I had to guess, I'd answer "Probably what happened to the Steelers after Bradshaw, the Cowboys after Staubach and then Aikman, etc." Unless we're saying that our fanbase isn't as deep and committed as the more "established" teams, I'd expect a packed stadium and fans who stay with the team.

Those of you who plan to abandon them, why don't you just admit that you were bandwagoners all along and move on now!

Signed,
Patsfansince74

 

[A Defiant Goose]

This is going to come off as super greedy and against fan morality but I kinda hope for a few down seasons after Brady and BB so I can actually afford to get tickets that aren't in the nosebleeds

 

[italian pat patriot]

i will try anyway to come to Foxboro; no doubt

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Everyone's life would be improved with that subtraction.

The history of the Patriots has no bearing on the present. They have gone from being a niche team with a small group of us lunatics to being part of the landscape of the region. An entire generation has embraced our little team that couldn't. That doesn't evaporate. Brady has done what Yaz & Orr did before him and embedded his team in the consciousness of legions. The long waiting list of Johnny come lately pink hats may fall away but the core will remain.

Failing all else we will be there just like we have been for decades.

I believe we both have expressed our full view of this issue.

Only time will tell who is correct.
I hope the Patriots continue their winning ways after Belichick & Brady are gone and we never know for sure who was correct.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Actually, your original statement was:

I note the lack of qualifiers such as "if" that you've now added.

I'm glad so many of you have such rosy memories of the pre-Kraft era. For some of us, our memories of a game at Schaefer Stadium are more along the lines of parking in a pile of mud wondering if we'd get our car out after the game, then working our way through seas of drunken fans ready to fight if you looked at them the wrong way, on our way to parking our warm butts onto a cold aluminum bench. I went once back then and had no interest in going back for the Pats or any other event till that place was blown up and rebuilt.

Point being, there's lots of reasons why people didn't support the Pats of the pre-Kraft era. Yes, part of it was the bad team, and another part of it was the bad owner just barely one step ahead of bankruptcy, and the bad junior college grade stadium, and no real tradition to get behind, and the crowd that had more than a few angry drunks ready to throw down.

And of course you're entitled to your opinion that Boston sports fans are fair weather fans, despite lots of evidence that they're not. I don't know why you feel the need to make the assertion, but knock yourself out.

Unlike you I enjoyed the old stadium and have a lot of great memories.

The Sullivans were not as good at business as the Krafts, but they also didn’t hoard the super bowl tickets in 1985. The allowed every season ticket holder to purchase tickets for the Super Bowl.

Kraft allocates tickets to the pink hat club seats tickets holders the vendors and to his high priced Super Bowl trips. He gives priority to the high priced club seats over the people in the blue seats who have supported the team for decades.

Unlike you, I didn’t need a new stadium to support the Patriots.

My first game was in 1973 vs the Bills.
I got to see OJ the year he had 2,003 yards in a 14 game season.

I also remember the opening game in 1979 vs the Steelers. The games back then were at 9pm & the gates opened at noon. Yes there were a lot of drunks and a lot of fights, but I choose to remember a great game that the Lost in overtime 16-13.

The Sullivans tried to address the drunks. For a few years they only sold LA “low alcohol” beer. You probably didn’t know that because you were worried about the drunks and did not support the team at the gate because of the aluminum bench seats.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think Brady and Belichick have created a generation of diehard fans that will stick around. The hardest part of getting fans is attracting them in the first place: once you have them and you've given them 20 years of great memories they'll generally stick around. I don't think the fact that they struggled to build a fan base 30 years ago will have much bearing on whether their legion of current fans who have been diehards for 20 years now stick around when the run ends.

 

[Bill Lee]

Unlike you I enjoyed the old stadium and have a lot of great memories.

Fine. You can look down your nose at me for passing on that "great" 70's Shaefer Field experience and I'll look down my nose at you for spending your time now preparing your complaints just so you're ready in case the Pats go 3-13 at some undetermined point in the future. Better yet, perhaps we should all look forward to another year of the BB+TB12 dynasty instead?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Actually, your original statement was:

I note the lack of qualifiers such as "if" that you've now added.

I'm glad so many of you have such rosy memories of the pre-Kraft era. For some of us, our memories of a game at Schaefer Stadium are more along the lines of parking in a pile of mud wondering if we'd get our car out after the game, then working our way through seas of drunken fans ready to fight if you looked at them the wrong way, on our way to parking our warm butts onto a cold aluminum bench. I went once back then and had no interest in going back for the Pats or any other event till that place was blown up and rebuilt.

Point being, there's lots of reasons why people didn't support the Pats of the pre-Kraft era. Yes, part of it was the bad team, and another part of it was the bad owner just barely one step ahead of bankruptcy, and the bad junior college grade stadium, and no real tradition to get behind, and the crowd that had more than a few angry drunks ready to throw down.

And of course you're entitled to your opinion that Boston sports fans are fair weather fans, despite lots of evidence that they're not. I don't know why you feel the need to make the assertion, but knock yourself out.

LOL Sorry about your experience...but it's all totally true.

I learned growing up that you've gotta be a hardy soul to attend football games...but at old Schaefer Stadium, were you gonna put your and your family's lives on the line? Nah.

I had typically adventurous times at the old stadium, and escaped unharmed. Guess I'm lucky my head wasn't bashed in by a torn-down goal post after we beat the Bengals to make the playoffs in '85...that, or I've forgotten about it.

Anyway, the attendance the last 25 years is proof positive that fans here will put up with anything...even the flying elvis.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think Brady and Belichick have created a generation of diehard fans that will stick around. The hardest part of getting fans is attracting them in the first place: once you have them and you've given them 20 years of great memories they'll generally stick around. I don't think the fact that they struggled to build a fan base 30 years ago will have much bearing on whether their legion of current fans who have been diehards for 20 years now stick around when the run ends.

Yikes! When were you born, youngster?

The New England Patriots already had a world-wide fan base by 1984. The newbies/babies this century were brought on board mostly by Pats fan parents; and--they can't really be blamed for accepting all the B.S. denigration of the team, since it's a) blasted into our faces by the media constantly, and b) totally accepted and not disputed at all by the current owner.

We diehard Pats fans go out each day wearing our Pat Patriot hats and mention our preference for it whenever possible. The Brady era is filled with great, successful football memories dressed in ugly fake uniforms.

The first 33 years of the Patriots are filled with treasured, irreplaceable memories of triumph, defeat, happiness, tragedy, humorous and unique events and on field heroes that are distinctly more compelling and lovable than other franchises that won titles during the same period.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Fine. You can look down your nose at me for passing on that "great" 70's Shaefer Field experience and I'll look down my nose at you for spending your time now preparing your complaints just so you're ready in case the Pats go 3-13 at some undetermined point in the future. Better yet, perhaps we should all look forward to another year of the BB+TB12 dynasty instead?

You didn’t support the Patriots at the gate after one trip to Schaefer because of muddy parking lots & aluminum bench seats.

That statement alone proves you are not a dedicated fan. It is people like you that made me create this thread.

You shouldn’t be talking about “looking down your nose at people”. You sound like what I would imagine the club seat “pink hat” fan would say if asked about Schaeffer.

 

[Bill Lee]

You didn’t support the Patriots at the gate after one trip to Schaefer because of muddy parking lots & aluminum bench seats.

That statement alone proves you are not a dedicated fan. It is people like you that made me create this thread.

Yeah, we get it, you created this thread to attack other people and project your superiority, classic symptoms of having an inferiority complex.

You shouldn’t be talking about “looking down your nose at people”. You sound like what I would imagine the club seat “pink hat” fan would say if asked about Schaeffer.

Yet you ARE looking down your nose at others, namely those you call "pink hats".

And you're spending your time projecting a bunch of bad seasons for the team you claim to be a dedicated fan of, instead of just enjoying what they are right now ( the team with the best ever coach and the best ever QB ) and not considering that whatever succession plan BB is putting into place might work out just fine.

 

[Kontradiction]

It'll drop off substantially. Especially with ticket prices that high. Fans, by and large, aren't going to want to shell out that kind of coin for a team that looks like unwiped cheeks on the field.

 

[Ian]

We will just have Steve Belichick as our head coach. He'll stay here through 2040. He'll be able to draft and develop a great QB. We're all set. Bump this thread in 25 years and ask again.

Holy cow - God willing - I'll be 67 by then...but the site will hopefully still be here