Future Extension for Cooks

[luuked]

Cooks is 1200-1300+ if Brady hits him half of the plays he missed him. Brady is my guy but he is human, he himself has kicked himself for missing some sure TD and 50+ bombs to cooks when he has gotten behind the defense. This opens things up for the offense and people are leaving that out. If he takes traffic with him and it opens other routes up he has done his job. He will get paid handsomely and so will Gronk. 1000+ Yards in his first season and the complaints are still coming smh.

I think you are barking at the wrong tree if you want Cooks to get to 1200-1300 yards via increased catching rate of deep balls. To get him to that next level he needs to become more utilized in other ways in space - as a couple of posters here have been kinda whining about for a bit.

 

[Ivan]

So you propose letting him hit the open market?

No, I would see how he looks next summer and maybe early season and start talking.

 

[CutiePie]

i like cooks

but i think he is a complimentary piece to gronk and edelman.....a really good complimentary piece

similar size to antonio brown from combine ... cooks was faster....jumped higher.....better in short shuttle

but doesnt move in the same fluid and seamless way that brown does

too stiff and mechanical..

just one cutie's opinion

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, I would see how he looks next summer and maybe early season and start talking.

That's reasonable. I think he gets the offense just fine. The question is does he get it like Deion Branch or JoJo LeFell?

 

[maineman209]

Back in 2012, the Pats signed Gronk to a $54M, six-year extension ($9M APY). As good as everyone acknowledged Gronk to be (as a TE), some folks were shocked at the APY and the fact that Gronk's cap hit in the last year of the deal (2019) would be $12M. But, back then, the salary cap was still under $121M, and $9M represented about 7.5% of the cap. At the time, that was the equivalent of the 6th highest paid WR (by $APY).

For 2018, the cap is estimated to be $178M. And Gronk's $10.9M cap hit represents only 6.1% of the cap and would be the equivalent of the 16th highest paid WR. Considering how frequently Gronk has performed as, effectively, a "WR1", and considering that his production is currently ranked 9th among all receivers (despite missing two games), that now seems like a steal.

Now, consider that Gronk and Edelman are only signed through the end of 2019, and consider that, next May, Edelman turns 32 and Gronk turns 29.

Also, consider that the salary cap increased by $10M from 2013-2014, by $10M from 2014-2015, by $12M from 2015-2016, by $12M from 2016-2017, and (estimated) $11M from 2017-2018.

So, extending Cooks in 2018 for five years with a $13M APY (that actually begins in 2019), would seem shocking in that it would at least appear to make him the 6th or 7th highest-paid WR. However, by the time the current CBA runs out in 2021, that $13M could look like a steal.

 

[Ivan]

That's reasonable. I think he gets the offense just fine. The question is does he get it like Deion Branch or JoJo LeFell?

I agree. I love Cooks and want him here long term, I just think that he needs to master the playbook and learn how to beat pressing corners. He’s got the ability to be a top 3-5 receiver in this league, and he’s young enough to make that jump in the next year or two, he just needs to put in some work.

 

[PP2]

Apologies if already posted elsewhere, but this should help poster understand how exactly Cooks contributes to the offense:



IMO, his willingness to create plays for others by pulling coverage away is a huge factor in why he should be retained. He does this without fanfare.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree. I love Cooks and want him here long term, I just think that he needs to master the playbook and learn how to beat pressing corners. He’s got the ability to be a top 3-5 receiver in this league, and he’s young enough to make that jump in the next year or two, he just needs to put in some work.

Yea I obviously love Cooks but I'd like to see him beat more man coverage in the short to intermediate stuff. Just a part of his game that needs to improve

 

[maineman209]

I'm not a huge Chase Stuart fan, but this is interesting ...

Tom Brady Has Reinvented Himself Again

 

[Ivan]

Yea I obviously love Cooks but I'd like to see him beat more man coverage in the short to intermediate stuff. Just a part of his game that needs to improve

I agree, I would also like to see him add a Steve Smith component to his game and start winning the fight for 50/50 balls. I think he has the strength, toughness and athletic ability to do this he just needs to learn how to use his body to block out defenders. Smith is the best WR I have ever seen at this and he should study Smith, Branch, and Antonio Brown and incorporate aspects of their game’s into his game.

 

[zoostation]

Extend the beast

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree, I would also like to see him add a Steve Smith component to his game and start winning the fight for 50/50 balls. I think he has the strength, toughness and athletic ability to do this he just needs to learn how to use his body to block out defenders. Smith is the best WR I have ever seen at this and he should study Smith, Branch, and Antonio Brown and incorporate aspects of their game’s into his game.

If he turned into Steve Smith I would be estatic

 

[BigPharma]

Oh, hell no! Cobb isn't even close to being a WR1 or near Edelman's level!

To me, Edelman is the Pats' de facto "WR1", as was Welker before him - with the caveat that Gronk also shares that role. The Pats' offensive system has simply been very different from traditional systems in what positions and roles it has featured and emphasized, so traditional valuations don't work (similar on defense WRT "pass rusher"), although it has evolved and adapted to the personnel available, to at least some degree. However, until Edelman and/or Gronk are "done", guys like Hogan, Mitchell and even Cooks, are all effectively the #3 guys. Cooks, however, appears to have the chops to move up a bit. Unless he can somehow take over Edelman's role, he's unlikely to be a "WR1" with the Pats in any traditional sense.

A lot of folks key in on Cobb's 2014 as his "breakout" and, like you, see it as a disappointment that he hasn't continued at that level of production. Really, though, that was just an anomalous year for a reliable 600-800-yard pass-catcher who's a good #3WR to have on the roster as part of the supporting cast for others like Nelson and Adams. His consistency is probably best demonstrated by the fact that, this season he's posted nearly identical numbers to last season even though it's been Hundley at QB for half the year instead of Rodgers.

IOW, he fits very well where he is, and I think the Packers will try to keep him. My projection of $7M APY for him is certainly doable for them (especially if they extend/restructure the aging Nelson (their "slot guy"), because the Packers have generally managed their cap pretty well.

Cobb would also likely be a pretty decent #3 for 3-5 years elsewhere, and his price tag supported by the fact that, until the Pack acquired Trevor Davis a couple years ago, Cobb was their mainstay PR. He'd also likely be an asset (training wheels) for a young QB elsewhere.

However, it's possible that some team offers him a bit more than $7M and tries to squeeze him into a #2 role. That's the type of mistake that BB rarely makes. And I don't think he has done so with Cooks or will do so with Cooks' future.

Astute and insightful. I'd love to see where you stand on other WR's in the league.

I like to pick out receivers that are gonna have big years. This year I hit on Hogan having a big year being in the system a little big longer (before he got injured - that hit though, I knew he was washed up for the rest of the year). In '14 I called Sanders having a monster year in the preseason cause I saw BB trying to nab him from the Steelers the year prior. He was bound to have monster year with a decent QB and a true WR1 pulling coverage from him. I like finding the trends in receivers year to year, but I keep missing on Cobb, I think because the pack paid him like a WR2 - really fooled me.

I really do think the WR2 and WR3 are more interesting that the flashy WR1.

 

[HailHydra]

Astute and insightful. I'd love to see where you stand on other WR's in the league.

I like to pick out receivers that are gonna have big years. This year I hit on Hogan having a big year being in the system a little big longer (before he got injured - that hit though, I knew he was washed up for the rest of the year). In '14 I called Sanders having a monster year in the preseason cause I saw BB trying to nab him from the Steelers the year prior. He was bound to have monster year with a decent QB and a true WR1 pulling coverage from him. I like finding the trends in receivers year to year, but I keep missing on Cobb, I think because the pack paid him like a WR2 - really fooled me.

I really do think the WR2 and WR3 are more interesting that the flashy WR1.

Yet, there's a reason why we call them WR1's and WR2/3's. A true WR1 is able to divert attention (like you said) onto himself and still have production, while opening opportunities up for players across the field (like the Sanders example). For example, no one would question that DeAndre Hopkins receives a lot of extra coverage but is still able to put on extra yards. In my case, I would prefer that excellent WR1 - Julio, AB, Hopkins, etc. - over a triplet of Hogan-type players just due to the amount of explosiveness/unstopabality (not a word) that he can bring. There's no question that our offense has been at its best when we've had that ace up our sleeve. We once had it with Moss and while the 07 offense may not have had the sheer amount of talented (but not super) contributors we have now, it had the best leading the way. There's a reason why that offense was considered the best we've ever had with Brady at the helm and its because we had that bona fide No. 1 option. In fact, we do have a true WR 1 option on our team right now and his name is Gronk. When Gronk plays he has the ability to open up opportunities for his teammates, yet post 100 yd games himself. I would argue that the emergence of other plays on our offense - including Hogan - is largely due to Gronk's presence on the field.

Bringing it full circle, I don't think Cooks will ever be the Moss or Gronk-type player in our offense. He simply isn't built that way. He's the Punisher. He won't, and shouldn't, get the ball 10-12 times in his hands like Hopkins or Brown do. But when he does have the ball, its the goal for each of those touches to count. For example, Edelman got a lot of 6-8 yard gains when he was on the field but I don't think that the defense ever really had to watch out for the 20-30 yard gains with him on the field. That's where Cooks steps in. He's the guy who can make chunk plays, who can be the reason why a stalling offense goes from their own 20 to the endzone in a number of plays that you can count on your fingers. I can't help but think about next year when we hopefully have all our guys with a diverse skillset on the field at least for some time. I think that there's reason to believe that next year's offense could be something truly amazing, especially with the emergence of several players this year. We'll have a guy on the outside who can outspeed any CB in the NFL. We'll have a massive target lining up who has a reputation of being unguardable. And then we'll have a blue-collar worker whose part is essential in gaining the tough yards. Not to mention a suddenly resurgent running game that can keep defenses guessing. Now, I'm not exactly sure how I ended up here from talking about WR1's, but I strongly believe that there's maybe a dozen players in the NFL who can call themselves true one's, and they are quintessential in their team's offense due to how they can change the game by catching passes themselves, but also reducing attention for their teammates. A WR2/3 can't do that nearly as effectively.

 

[CutiePie]

I agree, I would also like to see him add a Steve Smith component to his game

If he turned into Steve Smith I would be estatic

that would be great

but steve smith was one of the most agressive and angry WRs i have ever seen

played the position with the testosterone of a linebacker

how do you get cooks to play like that?...

 

[RobertWeathers]

that would be great

but steve smith was one of the most agressive and angry WRs i have ever seen

played the position with the testosterone of a linebacker

how do you get cooks to play like that?...

Drugs

 

[BigPharma]

Yet, there's a reason why we call them WR1's and WR2/3's. A true WR1 is able to divert attention (like you said) onto himself and still have production, while opening opportunities up for players across the field (like the Sanders example). For example, no one would question that DeAndre Hopkins receives a lot of extra coverage but is still able to put on extra yards. In my case, I would prefer that excellent WR1 - Julio, AB, Hopkins, etc. - over a triplet of Hogan-type players just due to the amount of explosiveness/unstopabality (not a word) that he can bring. There's no question that our offense has been at its best when we've had that ace up our sleeve. We once had it with Moss and while the 07 offense may not have had the sheer amount of talented (but not super) contributors we have now, it had the best leading the way. There's a reason why that offense was considered the best we've ever had with Brady at the helm and its because we had that bona fide No. 1 option. In fact, we do have a true WR 1 option on our team right now and his name is Gronk. When Gronk plays he has the ability to open up opportunities for his teammates, yet post 100 yd games himself. I would argue that the emergence of other plays on our offense - including Hogan - is largely due to Gronk's presence on the field.

Bringing it full circle, I don't think Cooks will ever be the Moss or Gronk-type player in our offense. He simply isn't built that way. He's the Punisher. He won't, and shouldn't, get the ball 10-12 times in his hands like Hopkins or Brown do. But when he does have the ball, its the goal for each of those touches to count. For example, Edelman got a lot of 6-8 yard gains when he was on the field but I don't think that the defense ever really had to watch out for the 20-30 yard gains with him on the field. That's where Cooks steps in. He's the guy who can make chunk plays, who can be the reason why a stalling offense goes from their own 20 to the endzone in a number of plays that you can count on your fingers. I can't help but think about next year when we hopefully have all our guys with a diverse skillset on the field at least for some time. I think that there's reason to believe that next year's offense could be something truly amazing, especially with the emergence of several players this year. We'll have a guy on the outside who can outspeed any CB in the NFL. We'll have a massive target lining up who has a reputation of being unguardable. And then we'll have a blue-collar worker whose part is essential in gaining the tough yards. Not to mention a suddenly resurgent running game that can keep defenses guessing. Now, I'm not exactly sure how I ended up here from talking about WR1's, but I strongly believe that there's maybe a dozen players in the NFL who can call themselves true one's, and they are quintessential in their team's offense due to how they can change the game by catching passes themselves, but also reducing attention for their teammates. A WR2/3 can't do that nearly as effectively.

Totally agree on Gronk being that receiver that opens it up for people like Hogan et al. Just watching Cooks today and watching highlights again, it looks like when he gets open Brady thinks he's going to keep running like Moss used to do, but he seems to stop and double back for some odd reason. At times he kinda reminds me of Brandon LaFell. - (awaiting flames)

 

[Flash]

The problem isn't how much we would like to pay him or how much he would like to get paid, it's the fact that other teams are poorly ran by giving a lot of WRs far too much money than they deserve. For offense, QB and strength of OL are almost always the most important because without either the offense cannot succeed. On the other hand, offenses can absolutely get away with scraps at WR/HB/TE as long as the team have a good QB and a good OL. Unless you have a video game cheat player like Gronk, Moss, Megatron or LT that can destroy defenses by theirselves, it is never worth overpaying WR/HB/TE.

And that is where the problem lies. Is Demaryius Thomas really worth $14,000,000 a year? Is TY Hilton and Alshon Jeffery really worth $13,000,000 a year? We don't even need to mention players like Allen Hurns, Tavon Austin and Kenny Stills. This is why a lot of teams stay mediocre/bad. Poor cap management and overpaying tier 2 receivers will keep these teams in the middle (obviously each team's situation is much more complex, but overpaying WRs is a big part of it).

I don't even think Antonio Brown is worth $19,000,000 a year, even if he's the best WR in the game.

To me, Cooks is among those tier 2 WRs. He is definitely an important part of the team, but he is no Moss. The team should try their best to keep Cooks on the team at a reasonable contract (ex. $9,000,000 is the max I would pay him), but it won't be up to us. Some idiotic GM will overpay for Cooks and unless Cooks' desire to stay here outweighs his desire for money, he's gone (and I won't fault any player for chasing money).

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

No. You imply Cooks will be gone because of a lack of chemistry with Brady.

I say because of Brady's age, they are not getting rid of Cooks who is approaching his football prime.

He has the greatest QB of all time throwing him the ball. With that in mind, and with all the injuries at WR, he has underachieved this season.

He has superstar potential and I am still rooting for him to click it into a higher gear this postseason. He will get better money next year on the open market than he will get here in NE.

 

[n6249c]

He has the greatest QB of all time throwing him the ball. With that in mind, and with all the injuries at WR, he has underachieved this season.

He has superstar potential and I am still rooting for him to click it into a higher gear this postseason. He will get better money next year on the open market than he will get here in NE.

I'm not sure I agree, except in the broadest terms: Bethel Johnson had superstar potential. Chad Jackson had superstar potential. So maybe Cooks has superstar potential. But I'm not seeing it. As you said, in a position of need with the GOAT QB throwing to him he was given an unlimited opportunity, and underachieved.

Like you, I am still rooting for him to click it into a higher gear in the postseason, but I have more hope than faith he will do so. He will get better money if he does, and if he doesn't he may not get much better money on the open market than he would in NE.