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Friday's cuts and why I have issues with the NFL CBA

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by roguepatriot, Jul 30, 2011.

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  1. roguepatriot

    roguepatriot Rookie

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    I know some of this is emotional and BB is just playing the NFL business game by the new rules, but for different reasons I find the cuts of Ty, Alge and Nick today reinforce the issues I have with the (latest) NFL CBA. I also realise none of these guys are on the breadline and I am sure plenty will disagree with me, but it seems to be a system that does not reward (and therefore encourage) loyalty/ provide security for players during their career. If anything, what the Ravens just did might be even worse.

    The first part I do not like is all three of these players are presently injured. Other leagues can get around injured players counting against the cap and even have them being paid off an insurance scheme. It just seems wrong to me to be cutting a player in that circumstance, especially veterans.

    Getting to individual cases, Ty signed with the Patriots for a home down discount. Sure since then he has been declining with regard to injuries / apparent commitment to football, but he is still a serviceable player. Sure, he probably is happy to go play in Texas. However, to me, this kind of makes a joke of the hometown discount for FAs. The only reason they should do this is if they are afraid at another team they cannot play to the same level.

    With regard to Alge; sure he is on the decline of his career, but doesn't all the leadership he showed last year, especially in teaching mentoring those that are helping cause him being cut seem in some ways counter-productive? Again this move does not seem to motivate a vet to come to a team and take such a role to be then cut a year later.

    Finally with Nick (who probably has the least sympathy amongst Pats Fans), last training camp he was asked to play a different position than he ever has (at least college/professionally) and ended up getting hurt while playing that position. He was not the first person for this to happen to (to my mind this is where the BB-Seymour relationship came apart). Sure you are making too much money for your present production, but the reality is many players are underpaid for their production as rookies.

    I will try to make it clear again that I understand whatever is going on is part of the business within the rules of this CBA, and my beef is not per se with individual teams' management. I also realise that some of these cuts could be done to take advantage of the CBAs cap dead money or to put those charges into 2012 and these players could be back come Aug. 4th. However, I somehow find aspects of this distasteful/counter to the PR professional sports try to represent themselves with. Is there not some better way to deal with athletes with some form of long term injury than this?
  2. pdangle

    pdangle Rookie

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    I must disagree 100%. I've come to the conclusion that it's exactly because of the fact that NFL contracts are not guaranteed (from injury or otherwise), that the NFL is the greatest and most intense pro sports league in the world.

    I empathize with your point. But from my perspective you can't have one without the other. If injured players were afforded more security/benefits than the typically cut player, then we would magically start seeing a rash players on the verge of being cut becoming more "injured". I know this might sound pessimistic, but unfortunately it's human nature, and we see it every day and everywhere. Everywhere and every day except in the N-F-L baby!
  3. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    it goes both ways

    they knew what they were getting into when they signed their contracts or ratified the cba

    end of story.

    life's a risk, ladies
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The NFL is different because of the consistent level of violent contact and number of players on the roster over the course of a season. If they were all on guaranteed contracts they could create so much drag on a teams finances that they would eventually bankrupt the league. As they are reportedly in the process of doing to the NBA.

    One of the aspects of MLB and the NBA that grates on most fans is that guys are increasingly being overpaid for underperforming or not performing at all.

    And Ty didn't give a home town discount. He opted to sign his second deal early (4 years into a 6 year deal) and therefore gain further financial security (over a lucrative incentive laden 1st round deal) sooner. He got $18M guaranteed on that deal and made $21M over the first three years (2007-2009). Any money that deal was discounted by was the result of meshing his desire to avoid risking he might not make the hefty backend incentives on his rookie deal or make it to UFA in 2009 in a position to cash in with the teams desire to get a player extended on a cap friendlier cost certain deal. By the time he got to the less lucrative years the extension actually added on his performance and attitude had begun to decline as they so often do...

    Now he's looking for a more comfortable situation and finances don't seem to be an issue...because he took care of those early on. He doesn't sound upset, so why should we be... Complacency is the enemy of a team persuing championships. Ty can go collect whatever he's now willing to settle for somewhere else becasue Bill doesn't settle.
  5. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Some industries are tough if you don't work constantly to keep up. I worked in High Tech engineering. Engineers had to keep up with a series of technical revolutions to remain productive and employable. Those who failed to do so (and it's not easy) became unemployable as engineers. Similarly, Warren's job was to rehab his ass. He got a one year paid vacation because he chose to complete his degree instead of doing the off season workout and consequently delayed surgery for a prior injury that cost his employer a year of service at HIGH pay. To make matters worse he again doesn't take care of himself offseason and fails the physical, etc. Obviously football, a job he gets paid millions to do, is not that important to him. I can't fault a guy who places his family and lifestyle over his job but then I don't have any problem with the consequences.
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

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    I really did not see any difference in cuts this year to last. You could make cases for all three players getting cut, which had nothing to do with the new agreement. Nick was one of the most battered players on this site and if a poll was taken would probably #1 in most likely cut. Algie, is an aging veteran on a team that has arguably the most talent at his position. He filled a role last year when we were transitioning. I don't remember Ty giving us a home town discount. I do remember him opting for season ending surgery right before the start of the season. How do you think that made BB feel?
  7. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    id love to see your take on this if you were the one who actually had to write the paychecks for these guys
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I understand where you are coming from with the concept of it not seeming right to lose your job to an injury. However, if this topic was that important to the players then they could have and should have taken a harder stance on it during these recent CBA negotiations.

    Another thing to consider is this: where does the money to pay them come from? If you put that responsibility strictly on the teams (owners), then they need to adjust their budgets accordingly - and in turn will pay everyone a bit less in order to subsidize payments to injured players. I'm thinking that the players union understands and realizes this; perhaps the topic came up in discussions and the owners gave them a choice of X dollars with guarantees or Y dollars without guarantees - and the players opted for the higher salaries without the guarantees.

    Another option players have is when they negotiate their individual contracts. They can have their agent push for more guarantees in exchange for a smaller overall contract, for example. They can also push for smaller annual salaries at the end of their contract, so they are less likely to be cut in that final year. Teams are reluctant to do this because it means they have to pay more money early, and players with low annual salaries are more likely to hold out - so again the player would need to make some financial concessions if he goes this route.

    Being cut this early at least gives the player plenty of time to sign another contract, whether it be with his former team or with someone else; this is actually preferable to be cut during final countdowns.

    The bottom line is that there are plenty of options for these players.
  9. The Boston Patriot

    The Boston Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find it refreshing that this seemingly is the last bastion of free enterprise
    in our society that rewards performance and rejects all else. You play, you
    get paid. You don't, see you later. Nothing is guaranteed except bonuses,
    and the players know that going in, so I cannot understand the gnashing
    of teeth and outpouring of sympathy for these guys when the run is over.
    They likely have made more money and received more fame than 90%
    of the population in the US if they have a halfway decent career.
  10. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    Considering there was no cap last year, though our personal team cap was probably maxed at just under $130mil Im guessing, combined with the fact that its now set at $120mil roughly, meaning we were gonna need to shave a cool $10mil of our roster somewhere, well, someone was gonna take a hit. Its a cruel business. But as has been said, these men make millions upon millions. I know youre not actually feeling sorry for them. Are you?
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2011
  11. Dr Pain

    Dr Pain Rookie

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    How is this different than the job position we are in? What guarantees do we have?
  12. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Agree with all the comments regarding money and injuries. I have another perspective about leadership though.

    Youngsters are like plants that you put in small pots so they develop in a controlled environment. There comes a time when they need to be moved into a larger environment or they won't be able to grow.

    Crumpler, Light, Warren, TBC, Faulk, Morris and Sanders were all guys that provided a safe and controlled environment for the new guys last year. It is time for the new guys to grow into larger roles on the team...particularly Gronk, Vollmer, Brace, Cunningham and Chung.

    There are some youngsters this year that could use mentors, which is why it is important to have Faulk, Morris, Sanders and maybe even Light in camp. Once the kids get rooted in the Pats system, mission accomplished and those vets can move on to whatever comes next...whether that is a backup role with the Pats, catching on with another team or even retirement.
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