Football Outsiders bashes Fin Ginn Pick

[Welker83]

W93, Ginn could very well be a good player -- certainly a weapon on returns. But that doesn't, IMO, make him a good pick. Not in the top 10, not with an injury, not with a college game that's hard to project to the pros.

Which brings up...



Hold on a second. All the time you hear about players being hampered by a lack of talent around them. But Ginn wasn't able to reach his full potential because he had a Heisman winner throwing to him and a 1st-round pick running opposite? Poor guy.

No it means he had to share catches with another VERY good receiver

 

[patchick]

No it means he had to share catches with another VERY good receiver

True. Like, say, Dwayne Bowe, who had to share with another first rounder in Craig Davis (who put up better numbers than Gonzalez). Yet oddly, Bowe's numbers smoke Ginn's.

Not saying Bowe's a better player, just that plenty of college players manage to shine regardless of the talent around them.

 

[chrisjnelson]

As a Dolphins fan, I am very happy with the draft. I think Quinn was overrated as a prospect, and him falling to No. 22 indicates that. I mean think about this - would a widely-perceived elite prospect (a Manning or Palmer) have fallen to th twenties because of team needs? No way. An elite quarterback prospect goes at the top, no matter what.

I think the Dolphins' reasoning behind the Ginn-Beck strategy is this: We can get a very strong quarterback prospect in two (Beck) but we can't get a receiver with the athletic ability and upside like Ginn in two.

Even other Dolphins fans might be disappointed now, but I think this has the potential to work out for us. Only time will tell though.

 

[DaBruinz]

As a Dolphins fan, I am very happy with the draft. I think Quinn was overrated as a prospect, and him falling to No. 22 indicates that. I mean think about this - would a widely-perceived elite prospect (a Manning or Palmer) have fallen to th twenties because of team needs? No way. An elite quarterback prospect goes at the top, no matter what.

I think the Dolphins' reasoning behind the Ginn-Beck strategy is this: We can get a very strong quarterback prospect in two (Beck) but we can't get a receiver with the athletic ability and upside like Ginn in two.

Even other Dolphins fans might be disappointed now, but I think this has the potential to work out for us. Only time will tell though.

Except that Ginn's upside is that he MIGHT become a decent returner and receiver.

1) Ginn's return stats DROPPED his last season at Ohio State. And I am pretty sure Ohio State's kick return blocking was better than Miami's

2) Ginn isn't fully healthy yet. He's never been a great route runner. He's also painfully slight of build. Meaning he could get hurt again, rather easily.

3) Ginn's build won't help him defeat NFL press coverage in the NFL.

4) For all of Ginn's speed, his receiving stats went down, except for his TDs.

In all honesty, Ginn being a bust is much more likely at the #9 spot than if the Phins had traded up to get him from the 2nd round.

 

[chrisjnelson]

Ginn would have gone to Houston at 10.

 

[satz]

Ginn would have gone to Houston at 10.

who told you thiis his agent? or your argument is you think the texans are the one teams who`s pic history you are emulating to repeat.looking at their past 1st rounder i think this is a good pick for the pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ginn would have gone to Houston at 10.

Really? You honestly think that a team needing to improve themselves on defense would have taken a LOW RATED 1st round pick at #10? Ginn was rated as a low first rounder, by the way. Dolphins way over-reached for him. Heck, the Dolphins might have had Quinn and Ginn if they'd taken Quinn and let Ginn go. I don't know of another team who would have reached for Ginn like that.

 

[dhamz]

Ginn would have gone to Houston at 10.

That is the worst thing I have seen said about the Ginn pick. Houston is the other team that wanted him that high - talk about a terrible team to reference as liking your pick.

The only thing that could be worse is if Matt Millen was trying to trade a bunch of picks to swoop in ahead of Miami and get him at 8.

 

[feelthepain]

LOL. You saying Ginn would run a 4.0 40 if healthy?
Miami Dolphins just spent a top 10 pick on a punt returner that doesn't run very good routes and has never produced much in college.
I'm glad you love this pick, unlike the hundreds of Fin fans booing the GM on draft day, you obviously must know better.

Seriously, where do you come up with this crap? You should get an award for trying to take wishful thinking and turning it into your bias version of fact. If you're going to continue to spew this crap, do yourself a favor and go to youtube, type in Ted Ginns name and watch a few clips. Watch how elusive he is as a WR, watch how well he catches the ball, watch how fast he is and watch him return kicks like everyone around him is standing still. You never have a good word to say about anything the Dolphins do. Obviously you're not capable of of saying anything without some kind of bias, your opinion is worthless, as is your football knowledge.

 

[feelthepain]

True. Like, say, Dwayne Bowe, who had to share with another first rounder in Craig Davis (who put up better numbers than Gonzalez). Yet oddly, Bowe's numbers smoke Ginn's.

Not saying Bowe's a better player, just that plenty of college players manage to shine regardless of the talent around them.

I could do everything you Pats fans are doing with Ginn, with any player selected in the first round of the draft. It's funny that there is very little positive to be said about Ginn from Pat fans even though Ginn was a Heisman candidate and the best KR in the country or the fastest guy in the darft this year. I could spend a little time working on your pick aswell, but I'm not scared of what he could do, so I don't even worry about it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Seriously, where do you come up with this crap? You should get an award for trying to take wishful thinking and turning it into your bias version of fact. If you're going to continue to spew this crap, do yourself a favor and go to youtube, type in Ted Ginns name and watch a few clips. Watch how elusive he is as a WR, watch how well he catches the ball, watch how fast he is and watch him return kicks like everyone around him is standing still. You never have a good word to say about anything the Dolphins do. Obviously you're not capable of of saying anything without some kind of bias, your opinion is worthless, as is your football knowledge.

Bring up YOUTUBE and see only the HIGHLIGHTS which are about 10% of his actually plays.

FeelthePain, you really should look in the mirror before posting about others being bias and supposedly lacking in football knowledge.

Why should the Pats fans have anything GOOD to say about what the Dolphins do regarding their players, particularly if we feel that its pretty STUPID?

How about you do more than just look at highlight videos of Ginn and get a clue? Ginn has problems running routes. He has problems catching the ball. He has problems with his cuts (which is part of his route running problems). For all his talent, his kick return stats and his YPC went DOWN as a junior. Why was that?

 

[zippo59]

How was Ginn a Heisman candidate?

Maybe to Ohio State fans, but any objective person would not agree.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=156844

Seriously, when reading his numbers how do you see Heisman Trophy?

 

[feelthepain]

Bring up YOUTUBE and see only the HIGHLIGHTS which are about 10% of his actually plays.

FeelthePain, you really should look in the mirror before posting about others being bias and supposedly lacking in football knowledge.

Why should the Pats fans have anything GOOD to say about what the Dolphins do regarding their players, particularly if we feel that its pretty STUPID?

How about you do more than just look at highlight videos of Ginn and get a clue? Ginn has problems running routes. He has problems catching the ball. He has problems with his cuts (which is part of his route running problems). For all his talent, his kick return stats and his YPC went DOWN as a junior. Why was that?

The only thing that's stupid is that Pat fans are to immatre to discuss football without bias.

 

[feelthepain]

How was Ginn a Heisman candidate?

Maybe to Ohio State fans, but any objective person would not agree.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=156844

Seriously, when reading his numbers how do you see Heisman Trophy?

Does he call the plays? Does he throw the ball? No, he can only do whats asked of him nothing more.

 

[DaBruinz]

I could do everything you Pats fans are doing with Ginn, with any player selected in the first round of the draft. It's funny that there is very little positive to be said about Ginn from Pat fans even though Ginn was a Heisman candidate and the best KR in the country or the fastest guy in the darft this year. I could spend a little time working on your pick aswell, but I'm not scared of what he could do, so I don't even worry about it.

Really? Ginn was a Heismann Trophy candidate? Could you please provide a link to that.

Actually, Ginn ran a 4.38 at his Pro-Day. That wasn't the fastest, though. You have guys like Jason Hill running a 4.32 at the combine.

Josh Wilson had better kick return numbers than did Ginn. Wilson averaged 27.32 across his career while Ginn averaged 26.6 but only 24.4 this year.

Oh, Geoff Pope, out of Howard was the fastest person in the draft. He ran a 4.27 at his Pro-Day.

Pats fans aren't scared of Ginn. We've got no reason to be right now. And I don't think we will have any time soon.

 

[DaBruinz]

The only thing that's stupid is that Pat fans are to immatre to discuss football without bias.

Coming from an immature mighty mouth who hasn't done ANYTHING but spew whining and complaining. Sorry, but I have used FACTS to back up my thinking. You've done nothing of the sort. So please, if you want to talk football, do so. If not, STFU and leave.

 

[zippo59]

Does he call the plays? Does he throw the ball? No, he can only do whats asked of him nothing more.

Ok...I'm not sure what you're getting at.

They don't award the Heisman based on what a player could have done. It's based on what they did.

 

[DaBruinz]

Does he call the plays? Does he throw the ball? No, he can only do whats asked of him nothing more.

Again, if Ginn was so great, why were his kick return stats down so much. Why was his YPC down? Why is it that going into the draft, Ginn wasn't the #2 rated WR.

You act like all the things I've mentioned are things I've made up, yet I can point you to draft sites that were saying exactly what I have been saying. Yet, you call it a bias on my part. You've not shown how I am biased other than to claim I am a Pats fan. You claim you don't have a bias, but you are attacking people left and right because they don't share YOUR biased view as a Dolphins fan.

Can you say hypocrite?

 

[feelthepain]

Can you say hypocrite?

The ulitimate comment from from a Pat fan. Every year you team can do no wrong. Everyone they sign draft or trade for will put the Pats in the SB, but everyone the Dolphins sign, draft or trade for is a bust before they even take the field. How do you know what Ted Ginn will be in the pros? You don't, Jason Taylor played for a small school, was not drafted high was skinny...but now is the best Defensive player in the NFL. Did you in all your wealth of knowledge have him Defensive MVP coming out of college?? I doubt you even knew who he was when he was drafted, but here you are making claims that Ted Ginn was nothing special in college therefore it's going to translate into a poor pro career. Ya know I'm sure your expectations for your 1st round pick are much higher, I'm sure you already have him penciled in as a starter this year as a probowler....cause every move the Pats make is just frikin gold, talk about hypocrites!!

 

[DaBruinz]

The ulitimate comment from from a Pat fan. Every year you team can do no wrong. Everyone they sign draft or trade for will put the Pats in the SB, but everyone the Dolphins sign, draft or trade for is a bust before they even take the field. How do you know what Ted Ginn will be in the pros? You don't, Jason Taylor played for a small school, was not drafted high was skinny...but now is the best Defensive player in the NFL. Did you in all your wealth of knowledge have him Defensive MVP coming out of college?? I doubt you even knew who he was when he was drafted, but here you are making claims that Ted Ginn was nothing special in college therefore it's going to translate into a poor pro career. Ya know I'm sure your expectations for your 1st round pick are much higher, I'm sure you already have him penciled in as a starter this year as a probowler....cause every move the Pats make is just frikin gold, talk about hypocrites!!

First off, shylock, if you actually did more than complain and whine about Pats fans views of the Phins, you'd know that there are Pats fans (myself included) that don't think that everything the Pats do is GOLD.

As for Jason Taylor, he was the "Best Defensive Player in Football" for one year. The year 2006. When was he drafted? 1997 and as a 3rd ronder. That's a day 1 pick. That is pretty decent. But it still took him 10 years to become the best.

As for my expectations of Meriweather, how about you stay on topic? Or can't you be bothered? Actually, from what I've seen, you CAN'T be bothered because all you can do is whine and complain. Particularly when facts are used. You just ignore them because they blow holes the size of battleships in your argument.

BTW, Feel the Pain, I've given my reasons for believing that Ginn will be a bust. Sorry that you take issue with that. It is my opinion and if you don't like it, how about you use facts to try and refute it instead of a childish temper tantrum. Hell, you made a claim that Ginn was a Heismann Trophy candidate, yet you haven't provided ANY support to that claim. I am pretty sure that Ginn was NOT a Heismann Trophy candidate and I base that on the sites that would have that sort of information.