Welcome to PatsFans.com

Finally, a possible explanation to the question...Why?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PYPER, Sep 14, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PYPER

    PYPER Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Finally, a possible explanation to the question...Why?

    I think everyone has the wrong impression of what the Patriots are guilty of. They were caught with a video camera. That is it. It's a rule violation. Much like jumping offsides or clipping.

    The whole "cheating" accusation is pure sensationalism at its worst. It's unsubstantiated speculation by people trying to construct the worst case scenario possible. These people take the opinions and fears of known "haters" and completely fabricate a story out of thin air.

    Here are the facts:

    Fact #1: The camera man was caught filming the Jets signals.

    Fact #2: He was out in the open. He didn't appear to be hiding or disguising what he was doing.

    Fact #3: Belichick is a smart man. He’s referred to as a “genius” by many sportswriters. He’s also a HUGE history buff. It’s well documented how he and Scott Pioli have stressed character in the building of their team.

    Fact #4: The Jets are coached by Eric Mangini, who was Belichick's protege for a long, long time. The Jets also employ many other former Patriots assistants.

    Question #1: Wouldn't Belichick have to be pretty stupid to blatantly and knowingly be guilty of what he is accused?

    Question #2: Does it not make more sense that there must be some sort of misunderstanding involved?

    Logical Leap of Faith #1: The Patriots never used the video footage in the games from which it came. That would be cheating. That would be the worst-case scenario. I don’t see any reason to just assume this is what was happening. From everything we know of the man, Belichick cares far too much about the history and integrity of the game to do this.

    Logical Leap of Faith #2: The footage was not used so BB could steal signals in future games. If this was the intent, it wouldn’t make much sense as most teams are smart enough to change their signals on a weekly basis. And even if they don’t change their signals every week, they certainly would change them prior to playing the Patriots a 2nd time.

    Logical Conclusion:
    Much is known about Belichick's passion for breaking down film. It's a task he enjoys doing and it's something he's really good at. When you analyze the facts, you start to understand that this was never about "cheating".....It's simply about a coach and his anal retentive hobby for breaking down every possible tendency.

    Belichick used the footage to assist him in developing what is probably best described as "personality profiles" of every coach in the league. By matching the game film with the film of the adjustments, Belichick was attempting to get an understanding of how each coach thinks. In other words, what kind of adjustments does Coach A do when I show him an empty backfield set. What does he do when I bring in 3 TE's. Every coach adjusts to things differently. As part of his film study routine, Belichick tries to get inside the heads of his opponents and understand how they think. When successful, it’s a tremendous advantage. But one that also requires a tremendous amount of work.

    Belichick’s error was in thinking that how he used the footage mattered. In his mind and perhaps even in actuality, he was doing no wrong. Perhaps in his search for loopholes, he concluded that since the footage wasn’t being used “during the game” or filmed on the actual “field”, he was within his rights since those two terms are stated in the rules regarding the use of video equipment.

    Belichick isn’t a cheater. He’s just the most diligent anal retentive coach in the history of the sport. But then again….Didn’t we all already know that
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  2. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -0

    Pretty much how I broke the situation down right from jump..........

    Not that the media will let this stand in the way of their truth though :rolleyes:
     
  3. loofasisgeek

    loofasisgeek On the Roster

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    Perhaps. But why wouldn't he request clarification on the rule? He was on the edge, and I don't he was oblivious to that fact. It's weird that he would run this calculated risk (with the potential for such serious penalties) without trying to clarify whether his interpretation was consistent with those of the commish, Kraft, etc. (or whoever... I don't know who he consulted or not, but infer that there wasn't a whole lot of consultation there.)...

    I don't see how you can let him off so easy.
     
  4. bakes781

    bakes781 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,907
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I agree that Belichick trully didn't believe he was doing anything wrong here. Why else would he be so blatant?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  5. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12,418
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +64 / 1 / -4

    I also heard somewhere that he got a memo of warning this year. But nobody has shown me a link showing proof of this.
     
  6. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -0


    Hubris......................... which I beleive was his biggest sin in all this.
     
  7. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Come on, do you really think a guy like Bill Belichick is going to "clarify his interpretation"? It'd be completely contrary to his personality to do something like that. It might've been a mistake, but still.

    Great OP by the way. I wouldn't bother trying to explain it to fans of other teams right now though, you'll just get labeled a homer without them reading it.
     
  8. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Try this one on for size. I think that BB thinks this is a really stupid rule so he was going to ignore it. If it perfectly legal to "steal" opponents signs using binoculars/camera, what is the big deal about video taping? I mean it's kind of hypocritical of the NFL don't you think? Anyway, chalk it up to BB arrogance that he doesn't have to follow rules he thinks are unreasonable. Guess he was wrong though.
     
  9. Cramden

    Cramden On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My feelings exactly. If the camera man was in disguise and trying not to be seen that would be one thing bu considering how obvious he was in his filming anyone who isn't predisposed to hate the Patriot has to see there was no intention of cheating.
     
  10. loofasisgeek

    loofasisgeek On the Roster

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Hubris, arrogance, thought it was a stupid rule... all are stupid and I've lost some respect for him. Not a big deal... still like the guy, still love the team, but not a highpoint.
     
  11. marty

    marty In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,484
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Great post PYPER! You've put into words what I've been feeling all along. This is probably closer to the truth than anything else we'll see until BB has retired!
     
  12. Bargod

    Bargod On the Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Why tape?

    We know he didn't use them during the game

    Any good coach changes his signals each game.

    As the season goes on defense coordinators add more to the scheme and change things up.

    So you have different defensive plays and different signals so why tape? It would take someone like Rain Man to memorize all that tape and come up with a signal scheme for a set of defensive plays from a year ago or many years ago that have to coincide with an offensive pay on the field for the current game. The odds have to be incredible.

    The only thing I can think of that he's studying body language. Football is an emotional game and coaches are not immune to that. More so with assistants. I watched those under the helmet shows and miked up shows where it shows the coach going nuts.

    Maybe what Belichick and his crew are studying is body language of the coaches signaling the plays and that's why photos and notes wouldn't work in this case.
     
  13. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,290
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +127 / 18 / -12

    IRRELEVANT. It was a stupid, poorly thoughout, miscalculated risk. End of story.
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,183
    Likes Received:
    325
    Ratings:
    +816 / 26 / -33

    Fact #5 the cameraman man, Matt Estrella, has worked for the Pats for 4 years; Mangini, Daboll, some of the jets staff and some of the jets players knew him.. he was not disguised, was not hiding.. he could have done something similar from somewhere else in the stadium.

    This is the only thing that makes sense, have felt this all along, he did not interpret the rule the same way that the commish did..

    I think the whole thing has gotten completely overblown.
     
  15. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,624
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +25 / 3 / -0

    That's one interpretation. Here's another: If the "rule" was followed more in the breach than the observance by all coaches, who the F cares what he was doing? The fact he has been hung up by his heels from a lamppost is an egregious act of hypocrisy and every coach in the league knows it. We are witnessing a show trial by competitors tired of getting their @$$es kicked. That's it. And Doofus Goodell was too befuddled to realize what was happening. He thought by issuing a strict punishment he would quell the storm. As I predicted the exact opposite has happened. His ruling has given life to a hurricane, and the league is going to reap the whirlwind. I said it yesterday: the Krafts will not help him at the next CBA bargaining agreement, and the salary cap era will effectively end. The Indianapolis franchise will be on life support, as will countless others in the league, and I applaud it. That's the price for believing you stole a franchise with Jesus' blessing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  16. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    21,376
    Likes Received:
    477
    Ratings:
    +1,037 / 15 / -8

    My gut says bullsh**. I'm a diehard fan. I can't wait to see the Pats rip the league a new ********* here.

    But it's the step over the line that does it, and we were the ones that got busted.

    There is another explanation for continuing to push the envelope, when the league says "EVERYBODY DOING THIS CRAP STOP!"

    It's called hubris.

    Come on guys. I don't need him to be innocent. I need him to come back and prove the edge was minor... even if he was seeking it.

    To that extent, yeah, it's an outgrowth of the same mind that brought us those super bowls. he IS obsessed with winning, and we are too, to say nothing of our players. GOOD. He's said his last on it, and is focused on the Chargers. That's how it should be.

    The rest of the league has evidently been nursing a grudge for years, at the very least in part because this team that's always supposed to be finished just never is, and they just can't believe that.

    Believe it.

    And now that we're backed into a corner, believe it that much more.

    But guys, we do NOT need an explanation beyond what we know -- he was caught in violation of the damn rules.

    Done, nuff said. Move on.

    PFnV
     
  17. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    8,294
    Likes Received:
    65
    Ratings:
    +247 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I do wonder about signal stealing though. I mean, we know most teams do it in some way. We also know our team is too well-prepared not to try and get this edge. So if the videocamera was not used for signal stealing during the game (and I don't believe it was because it seems like it would be much easier to do it in one of the legal ways....Shanahan says they often had the signals figured out after the 1st quarter and I can't see how a team could use a videotape until at least halftime) did we have some other method of doing it? It's not really the issue here, but I do wonder about it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>