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Felger struggles to stay positive about the Pats...but fails in the end

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  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Felger starts off positive entitling this draft as huger than huge, but in the end he seems to forget our wheeling and dealing on the Moss trade...

    Michael Felger | The Mailbag: This Draft Is Huger Than Huge For Patriots

  2. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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  3. Rob0729

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    I don't have any problem with what he wrote. He is giving both the best and worst case scenario. If Mike Reiss wrote this (and he has written similiar things), no one would bat an eye.
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I mean once a turd always a turd....why would u expect all of a sudden a change? He's a total embarrassment..a smug a***** what would u expect?? That is why I never bother to read him..waste of time.
  5. The Boston Patriot

    The Boston Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is absolutely the truth. I'm not a Felger fan but how could anyone possibly
    have a problem with his statement? :confused:
  6. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    i agree with you; i read always him with interest
  7. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Yeah, we would. We'd wonder what happened with Reiss. You can writer critically without distorting facts and presenting only negative info and pretending that we had not chances for the last four years. At some point Felger has to recognize that 2007 was a good year.

    His defination that the teams sucks and the drafting sucked because they haven't won a superbowl in four years is silly.

    Yeah, they weren't the best of the best, but they were damn good over that 4 year stretch, and to say that there utilitization of draft picks is poor is to ignore the fact that they have been consistently one of the best.

    It is easy to point to this or that pick as "proof" that they can't draft well, but there are not many teams who have done better the past few years, at drafting or at winning.

    It isn't about only taking sure bets. It is also about taking flyers, balancing ceilings vs floors.

    He certainly is entitled to say whatever he wants, but let's not pretend he is in any way merely reporting or analyzing. He is painting a bleak picture deliberately. He hates to be called a homer, calls those who think the Pats are a good team homers (like a few here), and goes out of his way to focus on any less-than-perfect aspect of the Pats and blow it up into an indictment of them, and write as though they were the Detroit Lions of the decade.

    Bah to Felger and his disciples.
  8. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    uuhhhhh......either they will win or they will lose......
  9. Jackson 2

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    For me, the difference is that a little voice inside keeps telling me that Felger, in his heart of hearts, ferevently hopes the worst case scenario becomes the reality.
  10. Rob0729

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    I suggest people read Felger's quote again. He basically says IF Wheatley and Whilhite turn into busts AND IF the defenses players selected next weekend are busts, the Pats defense could be in trouble for years to come. You know what? He is right. It may not be a disaster, but it will be a hole that will be a challenge to dig out of.

    I think any rational person would agree that if a team spends multiple higher draft picks to improve one side of the ball and most of them do not pan out, that team is facing problems.

    Nowhere does Felger predict that the Pats will have a poor draft. In fact, he somewhat implies that since this is the deepest draft in years and the Pats have so many high draft picks that they probably won't. He is just laying out a possible worst case scenario.
  11. Rob0729

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    See this is the problem. It isn't what was written, it was who was writing it.

    As for Felger, his Borges Jr. act is just that - an act. Felger was the biggest Patriots yahoo in the media prior to him getting his own radio show. Don't people remember his on air battles between him vs. Cafardo and Borges on Sports Final during the 2001 and 2002 seasons. He became Borges Jr. to help drum up ratings for his show since no one was listening. Since he returned to WEEI, that act has been toned down quite a bit.
  12. ctpatsfan77

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    But, based on an admittedly small sample size, do you really think Wheatley and Wilhite are likely to be busts? They may never be Pro Bowlers, but at the very least I think they will be productive.
  13. Rob0729

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    First, I didn't see anywhere that Felger said that the Pats sucked at drafting in recent years because they haven't won a Super Bowl. In fact here is what he wrote:

    Not a glowing endorsement, but not what you claim either. As for the quote posted by the original poster, he spent almost as many words in that paragraph stating how this draft is an opportunity to make this defense strong again "in a heartbeat" as he saying it could be a disaster.
  14. Rob0729

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    It's called a worst case scenario. He never suggested they were busts. Only stating what if the worst case scenario happens. Actually, comparing them to Scott and Reid aren't that unfair. Scott was a guy with a lot of potential who never got a chance to develop it because of injuries. With Wheatley's injury history, there is at least a chance that he may see the same fate. Reid was fairly productive in a partical role for a limited time span, but nothing special. Not a bust, but just a JAG. Whilhite could end up around that level.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  15. Jackson 2

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    It's not a problem for me at all. I remember Felger's history pretty much the way you have described it. If there is a "problem", as you put it, for me it's that some of these guys have, as you put it once again, an "act." I prefer reporters who don't have an "act" (i.e. Reiss). But that's just me. Others are entitled to their preferences, as well.
  16. upstater1

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    The last bit about the defense failing for 4 years running is questionable in the sense that, one, Brady wasn't the QB last year, and two, Brady and the offense lead them to a 16-0 record and a Super Bowl, one in which the defense gave up 17 points!

    So, his look on the past is questionable at best.

    Yes, the D couldn't get off the field last year, but Brady wasn't playing either.
  17. Rob0729

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    I don't particularly care for the act either, but I don't get outraged by it. I don't think this piece really was all that bad. I think people pick it apart because of the source though (I am not talking about you in particular).

    Felger did it to himself. You create a character and people see you as this character. I just don't think it is productive just picking apart every one of his articles though just because people perceive something as bashing. Read the entire article and he is giving both sides of the argument the entire time.

    BTW, Felger is a columnist and usually decides to take the contrarian point of view. I think this town needs contrarians. They are usually far more entertaining than the cheerleaders in the media. I hate Borges and most stuff he wrote, but I used to read him every Sunday. His columns are far more memorable than most of the other guys out there. People still quote him from 2001. Felger was writing positive articles back then and I guarantee you that no one can remember what he wrote back then. I think contrarians are far more entertaining to read because you love to argue with them in your mind, with friends, and here.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  18. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

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    Good read and Felger is 100% right on our drafting.. IT was a solid read and he makes some valid points.. Our draft has not been so hot the past few years. This is a big year for them, the draft is deep and we have a lot of early picks.. We need to hit on about 4 out of 6 of them..
  19. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I don't disagree. While I think the Patriots have had so-so drafts the last couple of Aprils, it's worth noting that Moss and Welker were a result of trading out of a crappy draft class, AND it's worth noting that last year's draft class is TBA ('though I don't think a trade-up for Matthew Slater in the 5TH ROUND! can ever be justified). All of that said...

    Felger's criticism is fair and, more to the point, I think people are missing the "IF" he has in front of a lot of that perceived negativity. He's saying IF they don't hit on picks to the level they arguably did not in recent drafts, then that's not good for us moving forward. That's fair, imo.
  20. Deus Irae

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    That bit about the defenses was completely idiotic. As has been demonstrated, time and again, even the 'great' defenses of the earlier Super Bowl winners allowed the opponents big scores in critical situations. Furthermore, the Steelers' vaunted defense was played for chumps when it mattered in last year's Super Bowl, and Pittsburgh won because its offense succeeded in the clutch. Felger is either being too lazy to actually ponder what he's writing, or he's deliberately stirring up ****.

    This sort of crappy writing was fine before the internet gave the common man access to all the facts and figures, but so-called journalists still think that they can just pump out a crap product and people will fall for it.

    Then again, as we've seen here in this very thread, some people still do.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  21. LloydBraun

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    I agree with Felger in a sense that we have missed on some key picks the last few years. This team would be incredible if the picks for Watson, Maroney, Jackson, Hill, etc had panned out better.

    But, we have also hit on some late picks and UDFA. Players like Woods, Cassel, BJGE, Wright, Guyton, Redd (I expect him to be solid), and Gostkowski.

    For some reason, I see the following for next weekend, this could change with a Peppers deal:

    1- Darius Butler
    2- English
    2- Delmas
    2- Donald Brown
  22. BionicPatriot

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    He is usually just a whiner, but here he is saying the blunt truth. Yes the 06 draft sucked, sure it wasn't THAT great in 04, but what team never had bad drafts?

    He's right, if Wilhite or Wheatley do not develop we'll have a 2008 secondary all over again. I don't know why when someone says anything not so positive we get all offensive and ****.
  23. jmt57

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    I don't see what the problem is, I thought it was a fairly well balanced article. Pats haters bashing them for doing poorly in the draft would never bring up the fact they used draft picks to acquire Wes Welker and Randy Moss, or how flawed and absurd the draft critique done by Forbes magazine was, or the selection of Gostowski like Felger did. The reality is that he is correct in his assertion that the Pats have not received as much production as they were looking for from several draftees in the last few years.

    I'm really looking forward to next week's draft. With all the early picks available, hopefully the 2009 draft will go down as one of the best in NFL history.
  24. Deus Irae

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    Well, the problem is that his argument is silly and his attack on the defense is just plain wrong. This has been gone over time and again, and someone who gets paid to write about the Patriots should know what he's talking about by now.

    Other than that, it's a fine morning and I'm sure the day will get even better.
  25. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    Of course we don't accept things like this from Felger that we might accept from Reiss. Felger has a reputation for illogical arguments for the sake of making a story (instead of just reporting one).

    It's not like we don't give Felger the benefit of the doubt because he's of a certain political party, or religion, or any other factor aside from his deplorable reputation as a sensationalist sports writer.
  26. eom

    eom Rookie

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    yeah, that's really a crock of **** hanging everything on the defense.

    didn't look like the offense was exactly carrying them against the giants, and I remember a few key dropped balls to kill drives and blow td opps against indy in the playoffs.
    blahblahblah....
    they need to coach better and play better in '09.
  27. Deus Irae

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    Patriots draft haul, 2005-2008:

    2008
    Mayo
    Wheatley
    Crable
    O'Connell
    Wilhite
    Slater
    Ruud

    Every one of those players is currently still with the team. Mayo was DROY, Wheatley and Wilhite both became starters before their seasons ended, Slater was a special teams focal point.

    2007
    Meriweather
    (Welker)
    (Moss)
    Brown
    Oldenburg
    Rogers
    Richardson
    Hairston
    Hilliard
    Lua
    Elgin

    2006
    Maroney
    Jackson
    Thomas
    Mills
    Gostkowsi
    O'Callaghan
    Mincey
    Stevenson
    Smith
    Andrews

    2005
    Mankins
    Hobbs
    Kaczur
    Sanders
    Claridge
    Cassel
    Stokes

    How can anyone possibly be sober and complain about that draft haul?

    Mankins, Hobbs, Kaczur, Sanders, Cassel, Gostkowsi, Maroney, Meriweather and Mayo are all clearly starters in the NFL. That's 8 clear starters in 4 draft years NOT COUNTING WELKER AND MOSS, and not giving the benefit of the doubt to Wheatley or Wilhite. So, in 4 drafts, this team has come away with 10 starters, at the bare minimum, and that's even with losing a pick due to sanctions.

    Legitimate backups still on the team:

    O'Callaghan
    Wilhite
    Wheatley
    Smith

    Questionable backups still on the team:

    Ruud
    Slater (but a special teams leader)
    Crable
    O'Connell
    Thomas

    There's not a single player take in the top 4 rounds that is out of football, and most of the other players are still on the rosters of other teams.

    The probable "worst pick" of the 4 years is Jackson, a wide receiver that blew out his ACL in his rookie season.

    Now, match that success up against other teams and you'll find that Felger is talking out of his ass, especially given the actual location of so many of the draft picks. Of the 33 picks in 2005-2008, 18 were in the 5th round or later and another 5 were in the 4th round, leaving only 10 picks in rounds 1-3 (it's 11 out of 35 when you toss in Moss and Welker).

    to be continued....
  28. Deus Irae

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    Now, let's look at what was drafted from 2001 - 2004:

    2004
    Wilfork
    Watson
    Hill
    Scott
    Reid
    Cobbs
    Sam
    Morton

    2003
    Warren
    Wilson
    Johnson
    Klecko
    Samuel
    Koppen
    Kingsbury
    Nead
    Banta-Cain
    Kelley

    2002
    Graham
    Branch
    Davey
    Green
    Womack
    Givens

    2001
    Seymour
    Light
    Williams
    Jones
    Holloway
    Akbar
    Love
    Myers
    Pochman
    Turner

    Clearly there were upper round misses and late round hits, just as there have been since 2005. 34 players is also darned close to what they've had since 2005, as well.

    14 picks below the 4th round plus another 8 4th rounders means 22 of the 34 were 4th round or below (vs. 23 of 33 in 2005-2008). So, 2001-2004 featured more picks in rounds 3 and up, has had more time for the players to develop, and had players competing to get on a team with less talent. Is it any surprise that a couple more players managed to succeed with the Patriots in that environment?

    Seymour, Light, Graham, Branch, Givens, Warren, Wilson, Samuel, Koppen, Wilfork and Watson all became starters, along with TBC and Jones (for 1 year).

    Would TBC or Jones have been starters had they been drafted in the past couple of years? Would Givens had survived and thrived had he been drafted in 2007 or 2008? It's not that the team has drafted poorly in recent years. It's that the team has had 2 absolutely tremendous draft years (2003, 2005) and that, along with ignoring the trades of 2007, has unfairly skewed peoples' thinking about the other years. Toss in the still developing players from last year's draft and the two eras are a lot closer than Mr. Felger would have you believe.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  29. Jimke

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    Felger is correct when he says that this is a huge draft for the

    Patriots. If a new CBA is agreed upon, the Pats stand to lose

    eight or nine starting players plus Faulk and Gostkowski after the

    season. If the CBA runs out, they could lose four or five starters

    plus Faulk.
  30. Deus Irae

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    Or, they could end up keeping every single one of those players. It's an unknown.
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