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ESPN: Charlie Weis accepts OC job with Chiefs


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We won our last Super Bowl in February 2005. Charlie and Romeo left within a couple of weeks. Yes, it is time to move on. It is time to pretend to try to get as good a set of coordinators as we had then.

Charlie and Romeo may not be the answers for the patriots and Belichick in 2010. Apparently, they are the answer for the chiefs and Pioli. Perhaps Pioli is just a poor judge of talent. After all, many posters believe that the game has passed these coordinators by.

But if Charlie and Romeo aren't good enough for uis, then shouldn't we expect much better from the best organization in football?

:confused2:

McDaniels > Weis

As I recall, McDaniels had to work his way up the ladder and had some early struggles, too. I also recall Weis getting his playcalling duties taken away from him earlier in his career.
 
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We won our last Super Bowl in February 2005. Charlie and Romeo left within a couple of weeks. Yes, it is time to move on. It is time to pretend to try to get as good a set of coordinators as we had then.

Charlie and Romeo may not be the answers for the patriots and Belichick in 2010. Apparently, they are the answer for the chiefs and Pioli. Perhaps Pioli is just a poor judge of talent. After all, many posters believe that the game has passed these coordinators by.

But if Charlie and Romeo aren't good enough for uis, then shouldn't we expect much better from the best organization in football?

OK.

2005 season. 10--6. Lose to the Broncos after winning two trophies in a row. What part of that would Romeo or Charlie have changed? Called it Pats' ball and a touchback on Watson's play? Avoided the pick?

2006. Lose to Indy in "The Playoff Game." Sucked, but what part of that would Romeo or Charlie have changed? The problems were on the field.

2007. Would Charlie have sat his butt down on Tyree? Would Romeo have tackled Eli?

2008. Would Charlie have blocked Pollard?

2009. New D. Brady back from injury. How many extra W's would Romeo and Charlie have delivered?
 
Games are always won or lost on the field. It doesn't follow that we should not want to have the best coordinators and coaches in the business.

OK.

2005 season. 10--6. Lose to the Broncos after winning two trophies in a row. What part of that would Romeo or Charlie have changed? Called it Pats' ball and a touchback on Watson's play? Avoided the pick?

2006. Lose to Indy in "The Playoff Game." Sucked, but what part of that would Romeo or Charlie have changed? The problems were on the field.

2007. Would Charlie have sat his butt down on Tyree? Would Romeo have tackled Eli?

2008. Would Charlie have blocked Pollard?

2009. New D. Brady back from injury. How many extra W's would Romeo and Charlie have delivered?
 
Obviously, you are free to believe that McDaniels was a better OC than Weis. I disagree.

:confused2:

McDaniels > Weis

As I recall, McDaniels had to work his way up the ladder and had some early struggles, too. I also recall Weis getting his playcalling duties taken away from him earlier in his career.
 
OK.

2005 season. 10--6. Lose to the Broncos after winning two trophies in a row. What part of that would Romeo or Charlie have changed? Called it Pats' ball and a touchback on Watson's play? Avoided the pick?

2006. Lose to Indy in "The Playoff Game." Sucked, but what part of that would Romeo or Charlie have changed? The problems were on the field.

2007. Would Charlie have sat his butt down on Tyree? Would Romeo have tackled Eli?

2008. Would Charlie have blocked Pollard?

2009. New D. Brady back from injury. How many extra W's would Romeo and Charlie have delivered?

But the philosophy! What about the philosophy! Nobody understood it better than those two! :rolleyes: :cool:

Why let those instances get in the way of a good yearning for the past...
 
I don't know, but it would have great to find out. When we polled the reasons for our problems three or four weeks ago, more than 60% thought that the problems we were having had more to do with coaching than with anything else!!!!

OK.

2009. New D. Brady back from injury. How many extra W's would Romeo and Charlie have delivered?
 
Does anyone here realize we're still working from the Charlie Weiss playbook. Sure some tweaks and changes but Charlie refined it - Josh inherited it and I'm sure O'Brien uses much of it also.
 
If only that were the case!!

Does anyone here realize we're still working from the Charlie Weiss playbook. Sure some tweaks and changes but Charlie refined it - Josh inherited it and I'm sure O'Brien uses much of it also.
 
Obviously, you are free to believe that McDaniels was a better OC than Weis. I disagree.

Disagreement is a part of an open society.
 
I remember Charlie and Romeo were amoung the worst paid at their positions in the NFL. Maybe its about the $, simple as that and would not surprise me.
 
I remember Charlie and Romeo were amoung the worst paid at their positions in the NFL. Maybe its about the $, simple as that and would not surprise me.


$500,000 at the time a few others were making $1 million or more.
 
I don't know, but it would have great to find out. When we polled the reasons for our problems three or four weeks ago, more than 60% thought that the problems we were having had more to do with coaching than with anything else!!!!

Well, there you go... If 60% of the fanatics who post on a message board believe something it must be the true!!!

mg, what part of this is BB's offense and defense don't you understand??

No coach outside the walls of Gillette save those who have left here to seek employment elsewhere know the terminology, playbook, personnel. Who do you want him to bring in...Mike Martz, a guy who can't get a job in the NFL begging?? Who do you think should run Bill's defense, Dom Capers? Bill had him in for a cup of coffee while he was inbetween gigs and nothing came of it. He didn't exactly set the world on fire in Houston before Charley Casserly saved his own skin for another year by firing him...He didn't stick in Miami, either. Now he's in GB and they are the 6th seed in a weaker conference. WOW, did we miss out on that one. Coaching and managing a team is not about Q rating or Casserly wouldn't still be stuck on CBS and Herm wouldn't be doing commentary and Martz and Mora Sr. wouldn't be sporadically guesting on NFLN.

Rex Ryan and Herm Edwards and even Eric Mangini didn't have an offense. Herm didn't even have a defense, just a charming personality. Coaches like that have to find someone with one to install they hope will work. Herm chose Marty's kid from SD to design him an offense because he was sprouted from the same coaching tree. Rex inherited him as he wasn't given the opportunity to find one he liked better. He doesn't even understand the terminology in the offense his team run as a result... Eric was saddled with the same situation although he would have rathered steal Bill's.

Coaching is a fraternity and guys gravitate to their frat brothers. That is what Bill did with Charlie and RAC, only in each case he knew more about the area they would coordinate because he wanted it to replicate the one run by the team he'd spent years on, the Giants. The defense was his when RAC learned it, the offense he'd adopted was the same one Charlie ran with the JETS. Once he was on his own he taught it to others. Like with his teams, when one guy moves on the next in line steps up. There are guys who won't advance. There are others on the fast track to. Some guys start out as Bill's gophers as he did with Marchibroda. Others come in after interning with his earlier protoges like Saban. It's like this everywhere that coaches have control. Where they don't it's musical chairs random matches and players have to learn an entirely new system every time the last one fails or is abandoned. That's the beauty of the system here. Like BB it endures.

Coaches don't coach players to blow coverage and bite on fakes or tackle like schoolgirls or get manhandled by DL or zig when they should have zagged or drop the damn ball whe it hits them in the numbers... How many times do you think they have coached Darius Butler to look for the ball in coverage? How many times have they reminded Wilhite that when he has safety help over the top he must stay inside his man? Hopefully eventually they will get it. Asante couldn't catch a cold for the first three seasons he was here and RAC was his OC for two of them. He actually came into his own on Pees watch...bit it happened on his own schedule.

This whole team is in transition. They aren't the no name throw the ball to the open man team of the early decade. That went out the window the day Al called with an offer Bill couldn't refuse because he hadn't won throwing the ball to the open guy for two straight seasons. And on defense the same guys RAC coached were aging out and he finally had to move on. Just like the guys who came before them, the Law's and McGinest's and Milloy's and Bruschi's they aren't gonna win right away. Hopefully it won't take them nearly as long to since Bill is already here. But they may need a little more talent or a little more experience on both sides of the ball. They lost a year of Brady in 2008. And that gave the rest of the league another year to tweak the bluepring to stop this offense. Belichick seems to be more aware of that now than he was in 2008 and in Vollmer he's already made a move towards mitigating it. Losing Welker likely through much of 2010 will mean he has to ramp up any plans to counter it long term. For now he will do the best he can with the hand he's been dealt (and to some extent dealt himself). But no matter who coaches it at the end of the day it's going to come down to whether the players on the field execute sufficiently to carry the day.

If Charlie could make players execute or wave a magic playcallilng wand that compensated when they didn't, either he'd still be in South Bend or Bledsoe would still be the QB of the NEP. Ditto RAC as the HC in Cleveland where he had a decent amount of talent and he just couldn't make it execute.
 
I remember Charlie and Romeo were amoung the worst paid at their positions in the NFL. Maybe its about the $, simple as that and would not surprise me.

Of course it wouldn't since you think Kraft is so cheap...

they were not among the worst paid, they were simple no longer among the higher paid because Snyder was collecting former failed HC's as supercoordinators on Gibbs staff and making a mockery of the coaching payscale. Minnesota's HC was making $1M in the same time frame. RAC and Charlie both simple wanted their shot at being HC's. They got them. They failed. But that's OK cause they were well compensated in the process.

Neither would want to come back here if they have any delusions about getting a second chance at HC positions because the knock on them before they left was they were just products of working along side BB. And that knock remains to this day unless the prove they can win somewhere else. I said KC was a logical landing spot for Charlie for that reason. Can run a similar system that uses the same terminology and inherit a QB his protoge groomed to run it. He wouldn't get the same credit as if he went to Oakland and salvaged JaMarcus, but he's got a lot better chance of succeeding in KC and that's a start. It could still get dicey though because both he and Haley have similar personalities and Bill won't be there to keep the peace. Haley has already fired one OC and his clock will be running with Pioli in season two...in part because he wasn't Pioli's first choice. That was Kirk Firenz who opted to stay in college for his kids sake. Kid will be ready to declare or move on by 2011.
 
Of course it wouldn't since you think Kraft is so cheap...

they were not among the worst paid, they were simple no longer among the higher paid because Snyder was collecting former failed HC's as supercoordinators on Gibbs staff and making a mockery of the coaching payscale. Minnesota's HC was making $1M in the same time frame. RAC and Charlie both simple wanted their shot at being HC's. They got them. They failed. But that's OK cause they were well compensated in the process.

Neither would want to come back here if they have any delusions about getting a second chance at HC positions because the knock on them before they left was they were just products of working along side BB. And that knock remains to this day unless the prove they can win somewhere else. I said KC was a logical landing spot for Charlie for that reason. Can run a similar system that uses the same terminology and inherit a QB his protoge groomed to run it. He wouldn't get the same credit as if he went to Oakland and salvaged JaMarcus, but he's got a lot better chance of succeeding in KC and that's a start. It could still get dicey though because both he and Haley have similar personalities and Bill won't be there to keep the peace. Haley has already fired one OC and his clock will be running with Pioli in season two...in part because he wasn't Pioli's first choice. That was Kirk Firenz who opted to stay in college for his kids sake. Kid will be ready to declare or move on by 2011.

I am not saying Kraft is cheap.

Think about this for a moment.

How many millions of dollars, yes I said millions, do you think Belichick has saved Kraft by promoting from within instead of hiring someone who may have experience and demand a decient salary?

Maybe its Belichick who is cheap.

And if it is Belichick who is cheap do you think that Kraft may award him for keeping costs down? It is business after all.
 
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I am not saying Kraft is cheap.

Think about this for a moment.

How many millions of dollars, yes I said millions, do you think Belichick has saved Kraft by promoting from within instead of hiring someone who may have experience and demand a decient salary?

Maybe its Belichick who is cheap.

And if it is Belichick who is cheap do you think that Kraft may award him for keeping costs down? It is business after all.

You are a nut job. Belichick doesn't pay the bills, Kraft does. The only thing BB is concerned with, is coming in under the salary cap with room to spare.
 
I am not saying Kraft is cheap.

Think about this for a moment.

How many millions of dollars, yes I said millions, do you think Belichick has saved Kraft by promoting from within instead of hiring someone who may have experience and demand a decient salary?

Maybe its Belichick who is cheap.

And if it is Belichick who is cheap do you think that Kraft may award him for keeping costs down? It is business after all.

Think about this for a moment. You're babbling nonsense. Belichick came up through a system the same way all coaches do. And despite being the most successful coach in a decade he isn't nearly the highest paid. Neither was Pioli. Part of their system was fiscal restraint and spreading the wealth. They spend on scouting and staff rather than rely on national services because they aren't cheap, just smart. They scout specifically for their system which national services cannot since they are shared. They ask players to be reasonable in their demands so they can spread the cap as well and employ better quality depth. And they earn their players respect because they do as they ask themselves. Part of the system is you have to want to be here for more than money. You want to be here because football and winning matters. Top to bottom from the head of football operations to the ball boy.

When Bill was with the Giants and JETS he was known to spread his own wealth around among his interns and staff. He knew what they made because he'd been there and done that. Owners set organizational budgets, not coaches or GM's. In NO in order to keep Williams as his DC the HC gave up $250K of his own salary to sweeten the DC's contract and keep him from taking another job. Sometimes if you don't have your own offense or defense you have to pay a premium to someone else for theirs. That's never been the case here because the coordinators are running Bill's offensive and defensive schemes.

Charlie and RAC were in line with other coordinators until Snyder did to coaching salaries what he'd already done to player salaries, knocked them on their ear. Suddenly guys were getting $1M and eventually more (Garrett got $2-3M to remain OC/HC in waiting for Dallas who assumed Wade would ultimately fail as their HC. But in 2004 RAC and Charlie were making close to average or a little better. I think Bill got them both raises, but they weren't going to be the kind of moves players could point to and say WTF is with that...
 
2007. Would Charlie have sat his butt down on Tyree? Would Romeo have tackled Eli?

You're saying that team lacked the offensive talent to put more than 14 points on the board? I'm sure there were balanced game plans that could have taken advantage of the Giants strategy, instead of Hail Mary's and constant pressure on the QB.
 
You're saying that team lacked the offensive talent to put more than 14 points on the board? I'm sure there were balanced game plans that could have taken advantage of the Giants strategy, instead of Hail Mary's and constant pressure on the QB.

Apparently you didn't watch the game. That's too bad, because it was a pretty exciting game, even though the Patriots lost in the end. You might want to find out if a friend taped the game so you can take a look at it.
 
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And despite being the most successful coach in a decade he isn't nearly the highest paid.

How do you know? I've never seen any report about BB's actual salary.
 
Well this could be really interesting. Charlie handpicked by Pioli to do the job on offense also working with Cassel who was handpicked by Pioli. If the Chiefs o-line gets improved signficantly in the offseason, I'd say Cassel might be in for a breakout year in 2010.
 
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