Emerging PatsFans problem

[Fencer]

Several things are seemingly being conflated here:

1. Making criticisms that are more or less founded in fact, whether or not wholly accurate.

2. Getting visibly upset based on those criticisms.

3. Concluding, based on those criticisms, that BB is doing a poor overall job.

#3 is stupid.

#2 is somewhat over the top in a way that many things in our modern media society (internet and talk radio alike) are over the top.

#1 is a big part of what forums like this exist for.

 

[borg]

Now everyone get in a circle and hold hands

Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This is so embarrassing....it's actually funny.
There is this coterie of fans who are such team toadies it's LOL funny. This group is quite out of place following any professional sports team. They belongs on the sidelines of pee wee and pop warner games with their pompoms and their blinding love. They belong at Justin Bieber concerts where they can yell and scream and cry their expressions of teen frenzied devotion to Tommy and Billy and Robert.
A decade of success for Boston sports teams has brought a "softening" (I'm being kind, an accurate description of this coterie would get me thrown off this site) within certain elements of this fan base.

The 2012 Patriots have a god awful defense and an offense that sizzles early but fizzles in the 4th qtr and can't close out games. This Patriot team is one dropped NY Jet pass and one blown Buffalo Bill passing route from being a .500 team.

Deal with it kids.

After reading the above, I reread the OP's post. I think your post is an unfair caricature of what he is saying.

He's not saying that legitimate criticism is inappropriate (and, as you observe, there is plenty about which to be critical when it comes to this year's D and the growing concern, as another legitimate critic put it, that the Pats might be "frittering away" the final seasons of one of the greatest QB's of all time).

Rather, he's saying that the tone and sheer idiocy of some comments, especially in Game Day threads (which I avoid until the game is over, one way or the other) do not speak well of the Board. I tend to agree with that, just as I agree with the next to last sentence of your post.

The reality is that the Board reflects our fan base (or virtually every NFL fan base); there are some knowledgeable and thoughtful posters who point out the "good and the bad," there are some posters who always see the glass as "half empty," there are some sheer homers who are still trying to figure out if this team can get the #1 Seed in this year's playoffs, and there are also some folks whose knowledge of the game is, to put it kindly, limited and who jumped on the bandwagon after the Snow Bowl.

 

[Clonamery]

....knock yourself out....QUOTE]

Is there any way this could actually work?

 

[mipatsfan]

What if the rich kid got a BMW, but it could never go over 50 miles per hour, and the breaks fail sometimes, wouldn't he be right to complain about it? Because that's what I feel is happening with this team. The potential is all there, but if you see the talent, and set your expectations accordingly, aren't you allowed to be frustrated when the results on the field don't accurately reflect all that? Having a BMW is great, but if it never seems to accelerate as much as it needs to, and you are in constant danger of the brakes giving out, crashing you into a tree, then maybe you shouldn't be considered spoiled just for having the car in the first place.

It is frustrating 'knowing' what the team is capable of but I have come to realize that sometimes you just have to give credit to the other team trying to beat us (and the other coaches). Perfection is sports will never be seen due to all the variables involved. The other guys try just as hard to make sure it does not happen. The defense, at this point, will be the key to how far the team goes. I am just hoping they find out how to best get there without too many more heart-attack games

 

[PatsDeb]

Well, this is a message board and let's face it, people complain louder when something's wrong than they cheer when something's good, both here and in life in general. The anonymity of the internet also allows people to spew more vitriol than they would in a face to face conversation.

Just do what I do, which is read only threads that interest me, and when they start to denigrate into name calling and negativity, just stop reading. There is a core group of posters whose posts I always enjoy and I make sure I read their posts and I don't care if I miss everybody else's. They tend to be older fans like me (for those who have revealed their ages. I am 48).

Another thing to try is to wait a few days after a game before posting or reading. Even I had a knee jerk reaction after the last game to come on here and bash the defense. They were that bad on Sunday. But, a few days removed, I am back to my usual optimistic self and, "a win is a win is a win" and "On to Indy!"

Keep smiling and keep loving those Pats!! As we have been for the past 11 years, we are in it to win it baby!

 

[denverpatsfan]

Let's make all fans watch some game tape of Scott Secules and Marc Wilson before they are allowed to criticize the 2012 team.

 

[RodThePat]

Let's make all fans watch some game tape of Scott Secules and Marc Wilson before they are allowed to criticize the 2012 team.

Oh, so because the Patriots used to have ****ty teams, we can't ever criticize their performance when they are very good and, thus, have created high expectations for their performance? No one is arguing this isn't the golden age of the franchise, just that it could be even better if some fatal flaws that have afflicted us for the past couple of years were fixed. It's exactly because we have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and not Rod Rust or Scott Secules that the fanbase is more likely to be frustrated when the team fails to meet the high standards set by the kind of talent and recent success they've had.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I havent' seen a ton of threads on this and if they're out there I have never posted to one.

Part of being in a community is speaking up when the you think the community is heading in the wrong direction - not to point of being shrill, but not turtling up and hoping it all just goes away either. Nothing wrong with telling people that you think they are out of line. IMO especially when you think someone is whining and acting entitled. In that case you can say, "I don't want to hear it."

There's a thread almost every week complaining about our fans. You're not going to change the way certain fans are, you're only going to fuel them and you're giving them the attention they want. They're not going to 'see the light' as some people want, despite all these threads, if anything they continue growing on the forum. We already know, we have alot of annoying ungrateful fans. Just move on. There's ignore features, feel free to implement them.

I'm not trying to complain about these threads I'm just offering my advice. There's too much good to supporting this franchise and reading this forum to waste your time on this topic. It's been going on for a while now and it's not going to change, like I said if anything there's going to be more of these fans the longer the Patriots continue to be successful.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The OP was directed to the tone of the board, which has become more about 'venting' and complaining every single week about a team that is 6-3 than it has positive sentiment about the fact the team is winning. Few other fan bases would understand how a team coming off a Super Bowl loss, which presently leads its division, is this lousy in the eyes of its fans every week.

Speaking only for me, my problems with the 2012 team are:

• At the end of 2011 the defense seemed to be starting to finally come around, and then we made offseason moves that would appear to make things better. Only it got worse.
• A bunch of uncharacteristic coaching screwups (like the clock "management" in the Seattle game).
• Underachieving as Brady's career goes tick-tick-tick-tick (to quote Chris Berman). Yes, the team has a winning record and will almost certainly win the AFCE and get at least one home playoff game. And that's all good. But this defense is so bad that I can't see them going anywhere in the playoffs past perhaps an opening win. I find that very frustrating because it's not like Brady has a zillion years left. If you want to call me a whiner because I don't want to see the last years of our HoF QB wasted, so be it.

 

[yopats]

Everyone is entitled to post here. But I have noted a coterie of newer fans who are so bored with simply winning, that they must tear down the efforts of the Team when ever it's not Perfect. And sometimes even then too.

The "perfection cancer" even seems to be spreading to a few established posters too, who should know better.

The particular direction of their current ire is the secondary. But they have criticized the #1 Offense in the league as well. So they are equal opportunity haters.

Now they have taken it into their heads that the Coaches are to blame for having produced only the winning most record in the League over the past five or ten years. They, in their infinite hubris and wisdom, have decided the Coaching is poor; and the rookies and sophomores talentless, because of their lack of Perfection..

Shades of the commentary that led to Paul Brown being fired by the Cleveland Browns, because although he got his tream ot the Championship game, he hadn't won recently, so "the league had passed him by". That was after he created the most successful expansion franchise in history; and would do it once again, after he was let go.

They don't seem to know or remember how fragile it is to Win. Expereinced Pats Fans know very well, watching the teams fielded by Clive Rush, and a host of other failures.

These are "The Goode Olde Days" and they don't know it... or care.

My worst fear is becoming more and more true each year.. We are becoming Yankee fans :bricks:

 

[AzPatsFan]

As the Mayor of Homerville, I will give my opinion on the subject.

1. There is nothing wrong being critical when it is needed.

2. We do have the usual suspect that almost never post unless they have something negative to say. They seem to be the most happy when there is something to be unhappy about.

3. There are ignore features here available and should be used- I wish I could.

4. It makes my blood boil to hear fans booing this team at a game. Many fans of many teams would be more than happy to trade with us.

5. Once again, after a win some people have to jump on the negative rather than just enjoy the win for say- one whole hour.

6. The influence of sports talk radio seems to have made in roads with more fans. The talk radio morons make it seem like a sin that fans are "homers", when the definition of a fan is being a "homer". The talk radio jerks spend 4 hours just nit picking and dwelling on the negative. However if you really listen to them for that time you will find an embarrassing lack of knowledge, a mass of contridictions in what they say, and a deep seated dislike for BB because he's smart enough not to give them anything that they can use against him.

7. You would have to be a blind homer not to see that the defense is underperforming. But there way too many threads that point to a player or two or three or four that "sucks". That's pretty much all they have to offer instead of giving something insightful as to what player is doing/not doing that makes him suck.

I think it's more than that. I think for one thing they never replaced Rodney Harrison as the QB or the DB's. There are only a few special players that had what Rodney had, so it is going to take a long time,if ever to develope a Rodney. In the meatime, a pass rush though more blitzing would help out the DB's. But you have to be careful with the blitz, there are some QB's that will eat it up.

Just a few of one Nut's opinions.

This post eloquently summarizes what I was trying to say when I started this thread. I have almost forced myself to remain passive as the discussion went on, signifying my agreements for BOTH points of view by merely posting "likes". Some of the critics will probably be surprised that I "liked" their posts.

I must say I was educated a bit too. I knew we had the best winning percentage over the past 5 and 10 year periods, but I DID NOT KNOW that the Pats Defense was Third in the League in Points Allowed, over the last half decade.

I did know that BB's defensive strategy and scheme of "Bend don't Break" and work for turnovers, worked to hold down opponents scoring. I also know it is not "sexy"; it can be frustrating as hell in its implementation, as opponents seemingly walk up and down the field on the Patriots Defense. But it works.

Players don't "suck". They are trying hard. Some just don't have the mental or physical abilities that others might have. Moreover, BB does quickly weed out those uninterested, even if they are talented.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Those Pats teams from the 90's could actually play some defense...

 

[The Gr8est]

My worst fear is becoming more and more true each year.. We are becoming Yankee fans :bricks:

Except that, unlike the Yankees, the Pats do not have a huge financial advantage allowing them to buy championships. The Pats dominate opponents on an even playing field.

 

[Dragda]

I think most Boston fans don't have perspective because they ignore sports outside the area. Ever read the "sports" page on that Metro newspaper they jam in your arms when you get on the "T" in the morning? Ever try to find a score of a team--in the playoffs!--that isn't a Boston team in that waste of paper?

Legitimate question: we have had trouble in our secondary for several years now. Can't we fix it?

Perspective: look how long it took the Bears to get a second-tier franchise QB and a decent receiver.

Perspective: When will the Lions find a replacement for Barry Sanders?

Perspective: Dolphins, Jets, and Bills

 

[Coog548]

My worst fear is becoming more and more true each year.. We are becoming Yankee fans :bricks:

Sadly that is the state most fans are heading. I remember the old days of sitting on steel benches, and leaving the old stadium excited that we at least had a competitive game. The young bucks will not understand how good they have it till its all over.

 

[RodThePat]

Sadly that is the state most fans are heading. I remember the old days of sitting on steel benches, and leaving the old stadium excited that we at least had a competitive game. The young bucks will not understand how good they have it till its all over.

People do understand how good they have it, and how good the team is. That's exactly why they nitpick and complain, because the expectations this team has set by their continued run of excellence are sky high. A common mistake is believing that those who aren't overtly positive all the time don't enjoy the team's recent success. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bottom line:

Lousy team judge success by winning games
Mediocre teams judge success by getting to the playoffs
Good teams judge success by winning playoff games
Elite teams judge success by winning championships


In NE, in the BB/Brady era, it's about championships. What would be great in Cleveland can be a disaster in New England. Most fans understand this. Some homers can't figure it out. Some "Chicken Littles" take it too far. Most people can figure it out without every bad play being proof of impending doom, and fall somewhere between the extremes. The results are message boards that can get contentious.



Just my $.02

 

[Danger Zone]

This is so embarrassing....it's actually funny.
There is this coterie of fans who are such team toadies it's LOL funny. This group is quite out of place following any professional sports team. They belongs on the sidelines of pee wee and pop warner games with their pompoms and their blinding love. They belong at Justin Bieber concerts where they can yell and scream and cry their expressions of teen frenzied devotion to Tommy and Billy and Robert.
A decade of success for Boston sports teams has brought a "softening" (I'm being kind, an accurate description of this coterie would get me thrown off this site) within certain elements of this fan base.

The 2012 Patriots have a god awful defense and an offense that sizzles early but fizzles in the 4th qtr and can't close out games. This Patriot team is one dropped NY Jet pass and one blown Buffalo Bill passing route from being a .500 team.

Deal with it kids.

Ahhh to be so cynical that you think its cool. -With your obvious world-weary disdain and pejorative use of the word "kids" can we safetly assume you still roll up your pack of cigs in the sleeve of your t-shirt?

Really, its okay to enjoy your Patriots just a little bit... I PROMISE no Justin Bieber press-gangs are going to come knocking you over the head if you do. Really. (We are very peculiar... er I mean particular about who we let in hair-wise. Slick and greased-backed is so.. not us.)

And just a little homerism for you in the vein of your closing argument of how the Patriots are just two plays away from being gad-awful... its this Patriot team that is two plays -one impossible helmet catch and one caught pass away from another two Superbowel rings.

 

[RayClay]

We will have the opportunity to do that after TB retires…and certainly after BB steps down. Until then, I'd like to keep this lightening in a bottle thing we have going as long as possible. I don't want to be sitting around 10 years from now thinking…"shoot, how the heck did we ONLY win 3 SB and let TB's prime years get away without winning more?"

I guess that's what I mean by perspective. As a fan since 1961, I can honestly say I've never even though the phrase "how did we only win 3 Superbowls?", much less said it.