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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AzPatsFan, Nov 12, 2012.

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  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Everyone is entitled to post here. But I have noted a coterie of newer fans who are so bored with simply winning, that they must tear down the efforts of the Team when ever it's not Perfect. And sometimes even then too.

    The "perfection cancer" even seems to be spreading to a few established posters too, who should know better.

    The particular direction of their current ire is the secondary. But they have criticized the #1 Offense in the league as well. So they are equal opportunity haters.

    Now they have taken it into their heads that the Coaches are to blame for having produced only the winning most record in the League over the past five or ten years. They, in their infinite hubris and wisdom, have decided the Coaching is poor; and the rookies and sophomores talentless, because of their lack of Perfection..

    Shades of the commentary that led to Paul Brown being fired by the Cleveland Browns, because although he got his tream ot the Championship game, he hadn't won recently, so "the league had passed him by". That was after he created the most successful expansion franchise in history; and would do it once again, after he was let go.

    They don't seem to know or remember how fragile it is to Win. Expereinced Pats Fans know very well, watching the teams fielded by Clive Rush, and a host of other failures.

    These are "The Goode Olde Days" and they don't know it... or care.
     
  2. Dingleberry

    Dingleberry On the Game Day Roster

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    As a newbie, low post count, Dingle come lately....I can only offer my take.

    I am old enough to remember (with nostalgia) sitting on the icy bleachers in Schaeffer Stadium. Of course these days are better than those days.

    However, the lack of even an average defense has gotten old. We're not talking 8 games, we are talking several years. And we all see the end of the glory years (or at least the Brady years) right around the corner. Because the Patriots were once a laughingstock to some and a loveable loser to others, we shouldn't be frustrated by Brady's final years being threatened by a subpar D?

    Even lottery winners have things to b1tch about in their lives when things go wrong.
     
  3. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know the defense was actually good.
     
  4. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    20007 was no different, believe it or not. There was still that sect of bad newbie chicken littles. But not everything they're saying (most about the defense) is incorrect, either.
     
  6. Dingleberry

    Dingleberry On the Game Day Roster

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    I would also add that I have seen this PatsFans problem often enough...the assumption that "long time message board poster" equals educated Patriots fan.

    For some, that might be true. For others, it may mean too much free time and a lack of a social life. :)
     
  7. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's not about perfection, it's about playing up to the expectations set by the amount of talent the team has, and what they would be able to accomplish if some recurring faults were fixed in the least. This team has the same defensive problems it has had for the last 6 years, and, coincidentally or not, we haven't won a title since. The Patriots have arguably the greatest coach and the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL, it's pretty frustrating to see a very talented squad being held back because of the same issues, year after year. The team has been deserving of criticism, there's no question about it. Some have gone way overboard with it, and I will include myself on that list, but I don't really see how that's any more problematic than the people who are constantly defending every player and every move. There's a bunch of those too.

    I don't think most people here think the team is downright bad. I, for one, have been incredibly harsh on their coverage problems, but I can recognize they're a very good to great team. It just pains me to see how much better they could be if some issues they have were fixed. Am I spoiled? Probably, you can say that, yeah. But I think the way you react to the team is all about expectations. If we were 6-3 with a rookie QB and a first time head coach, like the Colts are, I'd be ecstatic!! I wouldn't care how they won, being in the playoff picture after 9 games would be beyond my wildest dreams. That's not our case though. This team has reached a point where, if they don't reach the SuperBowl, they have pretty much failed. And whether you think that's fair or not, it certainly is the reality.
     
  8. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The problem here is that you're lumping hundreds of people, out of thousands, into one group despite the fact that many of them hold disparate views on what is ailing the defense, or how the offense might get even better.

    And sure the wall of noise that is comprised by all those voices might seem like one group working in unison - it really in't.

    Just like there isn't meetings held by all of the people who think the Gillette crowd is too quiet or the people who like Julian Edelman don't actually have a secret handshake.

    Sunday was a victory but a narrow one against a weaker opponent who almost put 38 points on our defense despite getting no turnovers, turning the ball over 2 times (3 including the last play) and having several penalties. This isn't an outlier for our defense - it is in keeping with overall terrible play that has generally been the norm dating back to 2005.

    It's only natural that people are going to be frustrated when our defense has been struggling that long.
     
  9. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    I've really posted much less frequently due to several ridiculous posters that infect others
     
  10. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    I ignore them. I'm sure there are a few teams that would be happy to go to Super Bowls while their defense is in transition, which ours is. Our front seven has a lot of potential, but needs to play together more and get a penetrating tackle IMO.

    Also Buffalo (wouldn't they love to top 10 wins and go to the bowl every other year or so) does have some offensive talent that would give lots of defenses fits. If you think every defense would just shut down Spiller and Jackson when Fitzgerald can also run and sling it, then i guess we do suck. We sure made Spiller look fast, I guess.:rolleyes:

    Most teams rebuilding go to 2-14 for a couple years, we go to the Super Bowl. I think our front seven will gel and we will keep working on that secondary, that's all we can do. People that enjoy saying the team sucks, knock yourself out, one cares.
     
  11. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    What on earth is the point of a fan forum where everyone collectively sighs and states "they're great" every week? Fan forums are vehicles to vent, to get rid of your frustrations and anxieties and also the chance to celebrate together with others. If you want to drink kool-aid, go find a store.

    It is absolutely legitimate to constructively criticise, to call out bad play, bad coaching etc and to question how the team is working. we are fans, that's what fans do.
     
  12. Dingleberry

    Dingleberry On the Game Day Roster

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    I get being sensitive to criticism of the team, but who has said the team sucks?

    And yes, Buffalo has offensive talent. Mark Sanchez has one game this year with stats that weren't a joke to NFL quarterbacking. Guess which game. Sorry, the D is not good. And it is holding them back from greatness.

    Rod Rust, 1-15, metal bleachers, Zeke Mowatt, etc, etc. I know, I lived it.

    This D is frustrating, and has been for several years. Saying so doesn't make anyone a new fan who is depriving the message board of upper level thinking and intellectual debate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  13. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the last 6 years, the Patriots have allowed the 3rd fewest points in the NFL (behind Pitt and Baltimore). They have won the most games BY 9.
    They are 3rd in takeaways.
    Please, please give me nore of the same we have had for 6 years.
     
  14. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Please but less heart attacks would be nice.
     
  15. Dodie

    Dodie On the Roster

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    yeah I really don't care how we win cos it's regular season, come around late dec and jan it's on!
     
  16. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    People have every right to question the performances of the Defense, in particular the secondary.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  17. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Jerod mayo is in his fifth season. Except for Wilfork, every single player on the defense is new and most positions, and the whole based defense, has changed.

    Our brutal rebuilding program consisted of a Super Bowl appearance, a continuation of ten years or so without winning less than ten games, including recent 13 and 14 game winning seasons. Sorry, if that is too frustrating to bear, I don't know what to say. We're having big problems in the secondary, but they're trying things. Look at the corners being cut with huge multi year contracts elsewhere. Almost everyone's having trouble with pass defense. I think we just need depth in the front seven, we're young, I'm patient. Buffalo figured Mario Williams was the instant answer, well, I'm glad we don't have that money tied up.

    People should really be forced to root for a team like Buffalo that kicks away wins. Get a little perspective maybe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  18. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    What meanies!!! I bet these same bad seeds forced the cancellations of the Andy Griffith Show and Lassie.
     
  19. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    That's the ticket. Yup, it's the 'haters' lacking the perspective.
     
  20. coolguy

    coolguy Banned

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    I think everyone here may be missing the point of those critical fans.

    It's not that the team sucks or being "perfect" that's making fans freak out.....I't the fact brady's window is closing, which means they have to rebuild a little bit faster before he's gone.
     
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