Dwayne Bowe arrested for speeding and Marijuana possession

[Joker]

Tunes...you know me on a personal level....I'll eat shrimp and prefer to drink water at a Pats game. I am not invested in this argument for any other reason than it mirrors the exact same argument pro/con the Spygate issue.

they were caught!!! using cameras!! it has to be bad!!!!illegal illegal!!!

it's this NEW "skunk stuff"!! It's REAL BAD!!! It must be evil! illegal illegal!!

it's a form of moral bigotry...and I think THAT sucks...

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Like I said--it's a very controversial debate, and I recognize and respect both sides.

Right or wrong, the concern and thinking is that the more it is accepted, the higher the number of people who will smoke it who may not have previously, had it not been legalized. If every teen/college student in America were forced to go to underground methods to obtain cigarettes and alcohol, the numbers are going to go down a bit. That would seem to be a very reasonable assumption. As I said, the concern isn't that it's going to suddenly go from trying pot to being hooked on meth, but it's the eventual and progressive pattern with smaller stops in between.

In other words--ask yourself this question: Are you going to go from NOTHING to crystal meth, as per your example? I hardly think so. Most people aren't going to suddenly start with crystal meth, but many will end up there from trying pot, and that's why it's considered to be a "gateway drug." Most teens/college students don't go from experimenting with beer or cigarettes and end up on crystal meth, or else beer and cigarettes would be considered the gateway drug.

I'm all for allowing adults to make their own decisions, and I think throwing people in jail for pot possession is practically absurd--but I'm just stating where and why the concern comes from, whether that is "right" or "wrong."

It's considered a gateway drug because it creates a negative association with the drug. People aren't going to go from nothing to meth because there are things between, but most people willing to do meth would certainly make that leap if their options were nothing and meth. That's the very problem with the gateway hypothesis.

Do you honestly believe that someone who's unwilling to use marijuana because it's illegal would be willing to use other illegal drugs because they can use marijuana legally?

 

[supafly]

It's considered a gateway drug because it creates a negative association with the drug. People aren't going to go from nothing to meth because there are things between, but most people willing to do meth would certainly make that leap if their options were nothing and meth. That's the very problem with the gateway hypothesis.

Do you honestly believe that someone who's unwilling to use marijuana because it's illegal would be willing to use other illegal drugs because they can use marijuana legally?

You kind of lost me with the last sentence there, but the main point is that when substances become more acceptable and widespread, people will use them more. Most people who experiment with weed in their teens/early 20's also move on to experiment with other substances too once they grow bored of weed, and also because they've already crossed a forbidden line in their mind. You can attempt to argue the fact that weed isn't a gateway drug all you want to, but the stats and numbers prove opposite.

This is always going to be something that is under heavy debate, so I stress the fact that there isn't going to be a right or a wrong opinion or answer here. I have smoked plenty of weed in my day, but it also lead me to heavier substances too--along with everyone in the drug culture who I knew. That doesn't mean that I don't believe people can use it safely under the right circumstances etc, or that everyone gets hooked on harder substances; but weed definitely is a gateway drug and that is the main concern from those who oppose it.

You may find nothing wrong with outright legalization yourself. I would be lobbying for something in the middle, because personally I don't wish to live in a society where drug use is increased, more younger people's lives are ruined etc. I don't wish to be in a society where it's acceptable to walk around, drive etc while stoned out of your mind. I think the world needs enough help as it is at the moment. Just my opinion. Good luck with the "cause," and I guess we will find out in the next 10+ yrs how things work out with the eventual legalization/decriminalization. It's nothing more than a difference of opinions.

Just so you know--the reason I am an advocate of decriminalization instead of outright legalization is due to the fact that I believe people should have the right to make that choice, and shouldn't be punished criminally for doing so. If they want to risk having to pay a summary offense fine, then fine; but I don't want simple pot cases clogging up the courts and taxpayer resources any longer. I have friends who smoke weed right in front of me and I have no problem in the world with it, I just don't want to see our world get any worse with drugs, so I don't want to tempt fate with any major changes across the board. I believe there should be a middle ground first, so we can see how that goes. Of course the states of CA and WA do not seem to agree with my thinking as they have outright made it legal at the moment.

 

[Joker]

You can attempt to argue the fact that weed isn't a gateway drug all you want to, but the stats and numbers prove opposite.

horsecrap...I can post stats and numbers that show the exact same gateway effect and even MORESO using either nicotine or alcohol. You are arguing from a biased perspective using the flawed argument that "gateway" is a valid premise.

If you intend to cling to your preposterousness then OK...I'll play..marijuana is a gateway drug....nicotine IS A GATEWAY DRUG using the same assumptive argument...alcohol IS A GATEWAY DRUG...so is glue inhaling. Now, marijuana is illegal, nicotine is legal, alcohol is legal and glue is legal therefore marijuana is more dangerous than these others?...right...you know what's dangerous? stepping into an argument with a house made of tissue paper and going up against a ten ton wrecking ball.

 

[supafly]

You can attempt to argue the fact that weed isn't a gateway drug all you want to, but the stats and numbers prove opposite.

horsecrap...I can post stats and numbers that show the exact same gateway effect and even MORESO using either nicotine or alcohol. You are arguing from a biased perspective using the flawed argument that "gateway" is a valid premise.

If you intend to cling to your preposterousness then OK...I'll play..marijuana is a gateway drug....nicotine IS A GATEWAY DRUG using the same assumptive argument...alcohol IS A GATEWAY DRUG...so is glue inhaling. Now, marijuana is illegal, nicotine is legal, alcohol is legal and glue is legal therefore marijuana is more dangerous than these others?...right...you know what's dangerous? stepping into an argument with a house made of tissue paper and going up against a ten ton wrecking ball.

If you wish to make yourself appear as one of those crazy radicals, then go right ahead. It's actually people like you that come across so strong and pushy that make the others who are for legalization seem normal. Notice that chicowalker made a fine argument that made sense etc. Trying to bully your thoughts doesn't get you anywhere.

I hardly stated anything against weed itself, and even admitted that I did plenty of smoking in my day and feel that people should have the right to make their own decisions without prosecution from the law.

I have been having a very civil discussion with 2 or 3 very reasonable people, and came right out and made the claim that "there is no right or wrong," and "that it's just a difference of opinions." It is a controversial debate that will continue to be so.

If you wish to believe that marijuana isn't a gateway drug, then go right ahead. The fact remains that the majority of first time users cross the line that has been set by our rules and regulations where they then move on to experimenting with harder substances. According to the national center for substance abuse, Marijuana users are 104 times more likely to try Cocaine, as opposed to those that never smoke the substance in the first place. The concern for lawmakers is that this could very well lead to making our drug problem more severe, and that's hardly good news for our world which is screwed up enough.

Comparing it to nicotine or alcohol (both which are legal) serves no purpose whatsoever. People don't start smoking cigarettes and then move on to stronger cigarettes; nor do they drink alcohol and then move on to stronger alcohol. There is no comparison whatsoever aside from the fact that you don't like the hipocracy that you believe is taking place by having one substance illegal and the others not.

 

[Joker]

People don't start smoking cigarettes and then move on to stronger cigarettes; nor do they drink alcohol and then move on to stronger alcohol. There is no comparison whatsoever aside from the fact that you don't like the hipocracy that you believe it taking place by having one substance illegal and the others not.

wow....uh...so, cigarettes and alcohol are exclusive in your mind? no chance of addiction to nicotine (a powerful drug) leading to any other addictive substances? All cigarette smokers never use hard drugs? all alcohol users never combine it with other drugs like cocaine? but marijuana leads to hard drugs and death? marijuana users move on to stronger and stronger marijuana? is THAT what you are stating as fact? what the hell gateway are you talking about anyway?

crazy radical???? I don't even use it. Look around you, the laws are falling like leaves in late November...are all these people...millions and millions of American citizens, crazed radicals???

Look at the deaths directly attributed to the use of the DRUG nicotine and the DRUG alcohol and then tell me there is no direct comparison to the absolute LACK of the same statistics with marijuana. It's YOU that has some biased agenda here...and you are welcome to iut. This IS America.....and I will continue to freely express my opinion when I see obvious bigotry of any type.

BTW...hypocrisy....it's sorta clumsy when you attack someone and call them crazed yet use "hipocracy" as a descriptive...just FYI...

 

[supafly]

BTW...hypocrisy....it's sorta clumsy when you attack someone and call them crazed yet use "hipocracy" as a descriptive...just FYI...

The manner in which you sometimes present your opinions is poor. You get worked up and then come off as a radical, yes. I don't think you'll find anyone arguing against that on the entire forum. You have quite a reputation for that, and I really couldn't care less, but don't come at me personally. There's no reason for your use of sarcasm and degrading of opinions.

People have come and gone giving their humble opinions, and others have responded in a thoughtful and respectful way. Once again....there is not a "right or wrong" answer. It's a matter of opinions. If we were having a symposium or a debate on the issue, you wouldn't see someone standing up and shouting--which is exactly how you come across. Yes, you are "that guy." The crazy radical who can't have a normal back and forth without coming off as a lunatic who has to jam their opinion down other's throats and make the whole thing seem awkward.

If you agree with a subject, fine; if you don't, fine too--but don't stand on your soapbox and act disrespectful to me or others. Your general manner of how you handle yourself when you disagree with someone can be greatly improved upon, and this is coming from someone who respects you and thinks that you're a nice guy who offers something to the forum.

I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm just saying that you are often a bit strong willed and opinionated. Unfortunately, that seems to take things to a whole other level where a group of people can't even continue with the topic at hand. Obviously you have a difference of opinions, and I get that. I respect your opinion and I even agree with you about some of it. Other than that, there probably isn't much more to say on the subject. Let's just agree to disagree and go back to talking about football.

 

[supafly]

I hope I didn't offend you, Joker. As mentioned, I respect the hell out of you and think you're a great guy.

It just seems that you have a sarcastic/bullyish tone to you that often comes out when you don't agree with something. Your use of "ummm...." "so....." ALL CAPS, etc is kind of unnecessary, and you seem to go to a very strong stance almost immediately.

Again--no disrespect intended, but there have been a ton of times where you've kind of resorted to a bullyish nature about you, whether the subject is religion, laws, drugs, fighting, or any number of football related topics that often mesh with controversy. I think everyone is going to have different views on things, and we can all express those while remembering that we're friends on a certain level. Maybe you don't agree with this thinking either, so forgive me if that sounds unreasonable to you. That was really my only point and I look forward to many great discussions with you in the future.

 

[Joker]

nope...the line has been crossed....THAT was the final straw....I'll show you exactly how I come across, pal...

THE PRODUCERS (1968) - "KILL THE ACTORS" - YouTube

that's ME...the gentleman with the gun....

 

[Ivan]

Speeding -Guilty as charged- 50 dollah.


Bailiff, next case...............

 

[Ivan]

You kind of lost me with the last sentence there, but the main point is that when substances become more acceptable and widespread, people will use them more. Most people who experiment with weed in their teens/early 20's also move on to experiment with other substances too once they grow bored of weed, and also because they've already crossed a forbidden line in their mind. You can attempt to argue the fact that weed isn't a gateway drug all you want to, but the stats and numbers prove opposite.

This is always going to be something that is under heavy debate, so I stress the fact that there isn't going to be a right or a wrong opinion or answer here. I have smoked plenty of weed in my day, but it also lead me to heavier substances too--along with everyone in the drug culture who I knew. That doesn't mean that I don't believe people can use it safely under the right circumstances etc, or that everyone gets hooked on harder substances; but weed definitely is a gateway drug and that is the main concern from those who oppose it.

You may find nothing wrong with outright legalization yourself. I would be lobbying for something in the middle, because personally I don't wish to live in a society where drug use is increased, more younger people's lives are ruined etc. I don't wish to be in a society where it's acceptable to walk around, drive etc while stoned out of your mind. I think the world needs enough help as it is at the moment. Just my opinion. Good luck with the "cause," and I guess we will find out in the next 10+ yrs how things work out with the eventual legalization/decriminalization. It's nothing more than a difference of opinions.

Just so you know--the reason I am an advocate of decriminalization instead of outright legalization is due to the fact that I believe people should have the right to make that choice, and shouldn't be punished criminally for doing so. If they want to risk having to pay a summary offense fine, then fine; but I don't want simple pot cases clogging up the courts and taxpayer resources any longer. I have friends who smoke weed right in front of me and I have no problem in the world with it, I just don't want to see our world get any worse with drugs, so I don't want to tempt fate with any major changes across the board. I believe there should be a middle ground first, so we can see how that goes. Of course the states of CA and WA do not seem to agree with my thinking as they have outright made it legal at the moment.

SUP, don't want to get into a big debate about it but the truth is that pot is not a gateway drug. People who become drug addicts do so for very different reasons, almost all of which are emotional and psychological, it's not because they smoked pot or everyone would be a crackhead. And the idea that a substance that is not harmful should be criminal in any way when substances that have proven track records as killers are not makes absolutely no sense at all. Tell you what, if you are really going to make something illegal then ban cigarettes and legalize pot everyone would be better off.



*And for the record i don't think cigarettes should be illegal, as Chris Rock once said about bullets just make them $3,000 apiece.

 

[supafly]

SUP, don't want to get into a big debate about it but the truth is that pot is not a gateway drug. People who become drug addicts do so for very different reasons, almost all of which are emotional and psychological, it's not because they smoked pot or everyone would be a crackhead. And the idea that a substance that is not harmful should be criminal in any way when substances that have proven track records as killers are not makes absolutely no sense at all. Tell you what, if you are really going to make something illegal then ban cigarettes and legalize pot everyone would be better off.



*And for the record i don't think cigarettes should be illegal, as Chris Rock once said about bullets just make them $3,000 apiece.

I think that it's ridiculous that cigarettes are legal. I have been able to put some stuff behind me in the past, mind you, but I can't seem to overcome the cigarettes no matter how hard I try. I look at the freaking pack every single day and think "how the hell did this ever become legal?"

I think the answer, much like many others is money. I also think that we were less educated about the dangers as a society. I'm not arguing on any level that cigarettes should be legal, while pot isn't. It's just my personal opinion that I'd rather see decriminalization, which would give everyone the right to choose, lessen the need for overcrowding of jails on minor offenses, remove the need to use government resources like probation/entering the system etc. It would also save taxpayers money, and take any question about incarceration and past records out of the equation. People shouldn't have records that prevent them from working due to the fact that they had 20 bucks worth of weed in their pocket from 10+ yrs ago, yet it happens everyday.

If someone chose to take the risk of being charged with a summary offense the same way they do with public drunkenness, disorderly conduct, etc--then more power to them. They could contribute by paying a hefty fine of 200-300 dollars just the same as you would with an expensive speeding ticket. I think we should start there.

As far as marijuana being a gateway drug--I think I am mis-representing myself a bit. I do feel that it is indeed a gateway drug at the moment, but I think the concerns are that it would become much more of a gateway drug IF legalized, so that is where I am coming from. I don't care if it is/isn't a gateway drug at the moment to be honest, although many studies do point to it being so. Note the National center for addiction study that makes pot users more than 104 times more likely than non-pot users to try cocaine. To me and many others, that speaks that teens and young adults (our target audience of concern) are indeed more likely to try other drugs after the allure of pot wears off. They also become mired down in a drug culture with many other of their friends who are also using and experimenting with substances. I've seen it happen a ton of times in the criminal justice field, through studies from school etc. I've seen it happen to many friends and peers, and most importantly--I've seen and experienced it myself having moved to other drugs in my late teens/early 20's (aside from any kind of speed, which never agreed with me).

Again..it's debatable, so that's not my concern. Everyone will have a 50/50 opinion on it. My concern would be more of it being a gateway drug (for teens/early adults, mind you..I'm not speaking of people who try it who have fully grown and functional brains and life experiences in their 30's) IF it is legal, as more people tend to "accept" things that are legal.

There's a chance that wouldn't be the case, and maybe all of the lobbyists are right. I'm not disputing that chance in the least. I am just stating what the common concern is for people who do not wish to see it legalized is coming from. We have a very, very serious problem with drugs in our country, and some feel as though it's tempting fate to now make something else legal. There will be an ongoing debate for the next 5-10 yrs regarding this issue, as it continues to heat up. I do like the direction that it's heading. I just don't personally agree with outright legalization of another drug, that's all. It's quite possible that my personal experiences, education and choice to work in the field of criminal justice has something to do with that. I also tend to be somewhat conservative as I grow into my later 30's too.

 

[chicowalker]

supafly, just a couple comments:

You kind of lost me with the last sentence there, but the main point is that when substances become more acceptable and widespread, people will use them more. Most people who experiment with weed in their teens/early 20's also move on to experiment with other substances too once they grow bored of weed, and also because they've already crossed a forbidden line in their mind. You can attempt to argue the fact that weed isn't a gateway drug all you want to, but the stats and numbers prove opposite.
... I don't wish to be in a society where it's acceptable to walk around, drive etc while stoned out of your mind. ...

If part of marijuana supposedly being a "gateway" drug has to do with its being illegal, wouldn't legalization make it less of a gateway drug?

And along the same lines, legalization / decriminalization (I know you favor the latter) would also have the benefit of not making young users "criminals" who might then be more likely to commit other crimes -- real crimes

Also, I don't think anybody who favors legalization would make it legal to smoke and drive. Would it happen? Sure -- just like it happens now, and happens with drinkers and other drug users. But let's not conflate the two.

... According to the national center for substance abuse, Marijuana users are 104 times more likely to try Cocaine, as opposed to those that never smoke the substance in the first place. The concern for lawmakers is that this could very well lead to making our drug problem more severe, and that's hardly good news for our world which is screwed up enough.

Comparing it to nicotine or alcohol (both which are legal) serves no purpose whatsoever. People don't start smoking cigarettes and then move on to stronger cigarettes; nor do they drink alcohol and then move on to stronger alcohol. There is no comparison whatsoever aside from the fact that you don't like the hipocracy that you believe is taking place by having one substance illegal and the others not.

How many of those marijuana users had first used cigarettes and/or alcohol?

There is a purpose in comparing weed with alcohol and cigarettes -- I can think of at least two, actually. First, it's to demonstrate that weed is no more harmful, and probably less harmful, than these two drugs that are socially acceptable. Second, it's to demonstrate the inconsistency in our laws on adult usage of these drugs.

it isn't a matter of moving on from cigarettes to stronger cigarettes or alcohol to stronger alcohol -- if that were the case, the analogy would be moving from weaker weed to stronger weed. The gateway hypothesis is that marijuana users move on from marijuana -- a weaker "drug" -- to stronger drugs. That's exactly what the argument is regarding tobacco and alcohol -- that use of those is the actual gateway, first to weed and then (in some cases) to harder drugs.

I've never looked at stats, but I know anecdotally that every person I know who smoked weed first tried alcohol and/or tobacco, myself included. I also know anecdotally that most people I know who smoked weed never used anything harder (and most of those who did use something harder just experimented, as opposed to becoming regular users).

 

[Ring 6]

supafly, just a couple comments:



If part of marijuana supposedly being a "gateway" drug has to do with its being illegal, wouldn't legalization make it less of a gateway drug?

And along the same lines, legalization / decriminalization (I know you favor the latter) would also have the benefit of not making young users "criminals" who might then be more likely to commit other crimes -- real crimes

Also, I don't think anybody who favors legalization would make it legal to smoke and drive. Would it happen? Sure -- just like it happens now, and happens with drinkers and other drug users. But let's not conflate the two.





How many of those marijuana users had first used cigarettes and/or alcohol?

There is a purpose in comparing weed with alcohol and cigarettes -- I can think of at least two, actually. First, it's to demonstrate that weed is no more harmful, and probably less harmful, than these two drugs that are socially acceptable. Second, it's to demonstrate the inconsistency in our laws on adult usage of these drugs.

it isn't a matter of moving on from cigarettes to stronger cigarettes or alcohol to stronger alcohol -- if that were the case, the analogy would be moving from weaker weed to stronger weed. The gateway hypothesis is that marijuana users move on from marijuana -- a weaker "drug" -- to stronger drugs. That's exactly what the argument is regarding tobacco and alcohol -- that use of those is the actual gateway, first to weed and then (in some cases) to harder drugs.

I've never looked at stats, but I know anecdotally that every person I know who smoked weed first tried alcohol and/or tobacco, myself included. I also know anecdotally that most people I know who smoked weed never used anything harder (and most of those who did use something harder just experimented, as opposed to becoming regular users).

A few comments.

1) As weed has become more 'acceptable' use and abuse among minors has exploded, and teenagers take rhetoric reported as fact, such as in this thread, from the internet and believe it lock, stock and barrell, as long as it supports what they want to believe. Legalizing it will only increase the use and abuse by teenagers.

2) You are way off on the gateway concept. Anecdotal examples are useless, no matter how many you have. It is a fact, that there are SOME youngsters who, at too imature an age to make sound decisions are exposed to weed, and told it is OK. This exposes them to other youngsters, who use harder drugs. "Getting away with" smoking weed, even when they do experience issues from it, just lowers the bar of fear of harder drugs. I'm not going to get into the details but I have seen real life examples of teenagers who smoked weed, smoked more weed, got bored and searched for another high, going to a stronger drug, including heroin. No one is calling the gateway effect something that happens 100% of the time, but 1% is more than enough for it to be a problem.

3) What no one has mentioned yet is the predominance of other drugs being mixed in with weed by drug dealers, including cocaine and other harmful substances. I get this information directly from an emergency room doctor who has witnessed it many times.

4) Weed is like any other thing that can be harmful and can be abused. Some will use it and nothing horrible will happen. Some will use it, abuse it, and suffer serious consequences.

 

[larryo]

Cocaine being mixed in with weed by drug dealers?! Dealers are in business to make money not lose it.

You will get some additives in cheap Mexican cartel weed but its certainly not more expensive drugs. You also see additives in British hash. Shredded tires baby powder etc.

 

[chicowalker]

A few comments.

1) As weed has become more 'acceptable' use and abuse among minors has exploded, and teenagers take rhetoric reported as fact, such as in this thread, from the internet and believe it lock, stock and barrell, as long as it supports what they want to believe. Legalizing it will only increase the use and abuse by teenagers. ...

When has use and abuse by minors "exploded"? Curious what time periods and usage rates you're referring to.

I'm not sure legalization would increase use among minors. once distribution is in the hands of businesses who make money from adults but whose business are jeopardized by sales to minors, they have a vested interest in not selling to minors. Clearly illegal sales will continue, as will other usage by minors, but I don't know that it would necessarily increase.

...2) You are way off on the gateway concept. Anecdotal examples are useless, no matter how many you have. It is a fact, that there are SOME youngsters who, at too imature an age to make sound decisions are exposed to weed, and told it is OK. This exposes them to other youngsters, who use harder drugs. "Getting away with" smoking weed, even when they do experience issues from it, just lowers the bar of fear of harder drugs. I'm not going to get into the details but I have seen real life examples of teenagers who smoked weed, smoked more weed, got bored and searched for another high, going to a stronger drug, including heroin. No one is calling the gateway effect something that happens 100% of the time, but 1% is more than enough for it to be a problem.
...

My argument doesn't rest on anecdotal examples. And if you're opposed to anecdotal examples, why did you bring up your own just a couple sentences later?

But nothing you have said here actually backs up your claim that I'm "way off" on the gateway concept. Yes, some teens will use pot and then move on from that to other drugs. Without a doubt.

So, at least 2 obvious questions arise: (i) when do we prohibit adults from doing something because teenagers might be irresponsible with their usage and (ii) if we're really concerned about "gateway" drugs, how much of a gateway are various drugs?

I've never claimed that pot can't lead to harder drugs. What I've said is that marijuana isn't the starting point. Everything you said here applies to cigarettes and booze.

...3) What no one has mentioned yet is the predominance of other drugs being mixed in with weed by drug dealers, including cocaine and other harmful substances. I get this information directly from an emergency room doctor who has witnessed it many times.
...

Actually, I alluded to this earlier.

That goes away if weed is legalized and regulated. Marijuana should become much safer for users once its cultivation and distribution are taken out of criminals' hands.

...4) Weed is like any other thing that can be harmful and can be abused. Some will use it and nothing horrible will happen. Some will use it, abuse it, and suffer serious consequences.

Of course. But that in and of itself isn't much of an argument for something to be illegal.

And the reality is that most users do not suffer serious consequences.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

If part of marijuana supposedly being a "gateway" drug has to do with its being illegal, wouldn't legalization make it less of a gateway drug?

This is what I always have a hard time coming to grips with when people support the gateway hypothesis; almost everything they use to back it is at best not related to the legalization and at worst actually caused by it being illegal.

"Well the get emboldened by crossing that line."
"They start associating with nefarious characters that do harder drugs."
"They get bored with it and move to harder drugs."
etc

Can someone please explain how legalization would actually make those issues worse? This isn't my cause, I don't like marijuana, I just don't understand the arguments for it being illegal.

 

[supafly]

This is what I always have a hard time coming to grips with when people support the gateway hypothesis; almost everything they use to back it is at best not related to the legalization and at worst actually caused by it being illegal.

"Well the get emboldened by crossing that line."
"They start associating with nefarious characters that do harder drugs."
"They get bored with it and move to harder drugs."
etc

Can someone please explain how legalization would actually make those issues worse? This isn't my cause, I don't like marijuana, I just don't understand the arguments for it being illegal.

A few comments.

1) As weed has become more 'acceptable' use and abuse among minors has exploded, and teenagers take rhetoric reported as fact, such as in this thread, from the internet and believe it lock, stock and barrell, as long as it supports what they want to believe. Legalizing it will only increase the use and abuse by teenagers.

2) You are way off on the gateway concept. Anecdotal examples are useless, no matter how many you have. It is a fact, that there are SOME youngsters who, at too imature an age to make sound decisions are exposed to weed, and told it is OK. This exposes them to other youngsters, who use harder drugs. "Getting away with" smoking weed, even when they do experience issues from it, just lowers the bar of fear of harder drugs. I'm not going to get into the details but I have seen real life examples of teenagers who smoked weed, smoked more weed, got bored and searched for another high, going to a stronger drug, including heroin. No one is calling the gateway effect something that happens 100% of the time, but 1% is more than enough for it to be a problem.

3) What no one has mentioned yet is the predominance of other drugs being mixed in with weed by drug dealers, including cocaine and other harmful substances. I get this information directly from an emergency room doctor who has witnessed it many times.

4) Weed is like any other thing that can be harmful and can be abused. Some will use it and nothing horrible will happen. Some will use it, abuse it, and suffer serious consequences.

Andy Johnson lists some of the concerns to your question. Understanding and respecting that you probably do not agree with it--I am just pointing out what the concerns are to answer your question(s).

I feel that we have moved ahead in the battle with cigarettes from where we were as a society in the past. We have seen more people quit smoking, have more programs and drugs like Chantix etc out there. People are more concerned with their health now today than they've ever been in the history of our society. We have seen outright bans on public smoking, and many jobs that I have seen are now not hiring anyone who has been a smoker in the past 90 days for fear of abuse from their health insurance benefits.

Personally, I find it hard to imagine us making a total 180 backtracking into a society where we suddenly battle (and win) vs something like cigarettes, then suddenly say "okay, marijuana's tar and resin which is about 15 times more potent than cigarettes is fine to inhale." That would be moving backwards in our society's cause for health etc, in my opinion.

The reason we're seeing a change in the states of Colorado and Washington is because they are done wasting the resources on having to build new jails, have their courts clogged up, and do not have the money or man power to consistently battle small pot offenses anymore. Basically, they gave up...it's not because they agree that it isn't harmful or are suddenly advocating it.

Again...you may not agree with it, and I totally respect that. I think we're just giving you the other side of the coin the same way that you are giving us the other side of the coin. It's going to continue to be very controversial and highly debated.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Apparently he asked the cops if Sonic burger was open. However you feel about weed in general and all that, I hope we can all agree that that's pretty funny.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This is what I always have a hard time coming to grips with when people support the gateway hypothesis; almost everything they use to back it is at best not related to the legalization and at worst actually caused by it being illegal.

"Well the get emboldened by crossing that line."
"They start associating with nefarious characters that do harder drugs."
"They get bored with it and move to harder drugs."
etc

Can someone please explain how legalization would actually make those issues worse? This isn't my cause, I don't like marijuana, I just don't understand the arguments for it being illegal.

Seriously. If you honestly believe that weed is a gateway to harder drugs (which I don't believe), then that's all the more reason to want something legalized. Take weed out of the seedy underworld and it will stop being a gateway to the seedy underworld.