draft names linked to pats

[PATRIOTS-80]

PATRIOTS-80 .. You have done your homework on this.

Who would you like us to grab with our 2 first picks? If they are still there

thanks

ah shucks, but if you want to compliment anybody, compliment Box O Rocks. As far as explaining our system and breaking down plays, he and other knowledgable posters on this board have done the world for my understanding. A couple of years ago I don't even know what the heck a cover-3 was. Him and Pats1 breaking down plays and explaining stuff really helped and enhanced my enjoyment of the game.

As far as the first two picks, I'm thinking defense. BB sometimes goes in pairs. He drafted Logan Mankins and Kaczur the same year. He drafted Eugene Wilson and Asante Samuel the same year. He drafted Guss Scott and Dexter Reid the same year. You could make the argument that he drafted David Thomas and Garrett Mills (FB/TE). I am thinking defense, and with a spot at OLB, and another spot with this possibly being Bruschi's last year, and with another spot eventually opening up because Vrabel is on the wrong side of 30; I wouldn't be shocked if he we draft 3 LB this year (maybe one in the lower rounds).

I can't wait until after the combine when Box O Rocks every week posts a position thread, and tons of posters put their complete boards up. Its all so fascinating.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Outside LB

Anthony Spencer OLB Purdue

He might be a second rounder.

Quentin Moses OLB Georgia

Questions about his ability to hold the edge in a 3-4.

Lamarr Woodley OLB Michigan

Tweener DE/OLB could be a nice fit.

Jarvis Moss OLB Florida

Tweener DE/OLB could be a nice fit.

Victor Abiamiri OLB Notre Dame

Charlie connection....

Gaines Adams OLB Clemson

Probably requires a trade up.

Lawrence Timmons OLB Florida State

Probably requires a trade up.

DEDan Bazuin OLB Central Michigan

I know nothing about him.

- Spencer (6'3" 266, 4.67/40) - prolific pass rusher, he is also good against the run and does well stacking and shedding blocks, though his size is expected to be a handicap at the pro-level. He was not required to participate in LB drills at the Senior Bowl which means we will be waiting for the Purdue Pro-Day and the Combine to see if he is willing to test for a transition to OLB, and how well he does. At this point, his value within the Patriot system is up in the air, even if he was doing well in OLB drills, the transition time is unlikely to be much faster than TBC's. I would not consider him a good value in round one for the Pats.

- Moses (6'5" 249, 4.75/40)

Negatives: Still looks more like a basketball player than defensive end. The more physical the game gets, the more likely Moses will be ineffective. Still relies too much on his athletic ability off the edge. Struggles to disengage from quality blocks and lacks pass rush moves. Lacks the bulk and strength to hold up against double-teams in the running game. Effective pass rusher, but a bit one dimensional.

You would need to build up his strength and develop his technique, both for rushing the passer, stacking and shedding in the run game, and dropping into coverage. In essence, Georgia did a poor job of preparing this young man for the next level. His stock is dropping, but it seems unlikely he will drop to the second day where he might be worth a flyer for the Pats.

- Woodley (6'2" 269, 4.68/40) Productive player as a DE and a rush OLB, limited coverage skills. Does not have an exceptional first step, so has developed his pass rush technique to be productive. There is a question about how much the talent at Michigan affected his opportunity to make plays - I think this is a smoke screen argument, if he was a rush OLB working alongside Sey or Ty or Jarvis he'd be surrounded by adequate talent at this level. Getting reps at both OLB and DE at Michigan is a plus, the coverage concern won't start being answered until we see how he shows in LB agility drills. No mention of Special Teams play after his Freshman year, lettered 3 years in basketball in High School, was a linebacker in HS with some pass coverage skills. Could he drop 10-15 pounds to improve his coverage agility/speed/quickness, while remaining affective as an OLB? Pierre Woods seemed to make a good start on the transition in pre-season, I suspect Woodley would be similarly productive, the question is if he would be worth expending a first round or even first day pick, as compared to Woods who was a UDFA.

- Moss (6'6" 252, 4.63/40) - took LB reps as a Sophomore in Spring drills. draftscout does not have an analysis of his performance due to his early departure as a Junior. He was suspended for one game due to a violation of team and University rules, but obviously learned a little something from that error by not doing anything that prevented his playing the rest of the season under a fairly strict Urban Meyer. His reported measurables and his performance in the National Championship game against Ohio State suggest he would do well as an OLB. There should be some maturity awareness for a junior leaving early, but other than the one suspension mentioned there is nothing specific. The primary question is the value of using a first round pick on a developmental player - I expect he will be too high a price for BB.

- Abiamiri (6'5" 271, 4.75/40) - Character, pass rush, strength at the point of attack, and four years of production are all pluses. Reliance on athleticism vice technique and no experience at LB are negatives. Transition time and a high first day grade work against him.

- Adams (6'5" 260, 4.72/40) draftscout's #1 ranked DE. Played 8 man ball in HS. Has all the measurables but there are concerns he is peaking in time for his payday. He also disappears during long stretches and gets frustrated when held in check, making him easier to hold in check. Let's just be happy he will be gone early and not a Patriot problem.

- Timmons (6'3" 232, 4.62/40) Too small for a 3-4 LB, look how reported 240 lb. Eric Alexander struggled against the run.

- Bazuin (6'3" 265, 4.69/40)

Not fluid enough to be a candidate for moving back to outside linebacker despite impressive straight-line speed.

His stock is rising for draftscout, but they don't currently have him rated higher than late 2nd/early third. He's not off my board yet, I don't see him at OLB, but I haven't ruled out ILB given...

Cerebral player who recognizes the action from his defensive end position and is rarely out of position. Isn't an all-or-nothing pass rusher who loops wide and creates openings for the ball carrier to run through...Good strength and toughness at the point of attack versus the run. Excellent pursuit. Surprising speed to the flanks and down the field. Can be an explosive hitter, with nine forced fumbles over the past two seasons. Never takes a snap off.

I expect TBC to be re-signed. Despite the posts complaining about his alleged inability to stop the run, I once again note he started against the Charger's strong running game and Alexander started against the strong passing game of the Colts. Woods had a head start on TBC with his OLB experience at Michigan, I expect him to develop a little faster if he applies himself, though I wouldn't expect to see him competing for game reps before 2008.

Free Agency or Trade seems to be the best option for bringing in another LB candidate, for example:
Antwan Peek LB 6'3" 250 Houston
Mason Unck LB 6'3" 245 Cleveburgh
Donnie Spragan LB 6'3" 242 Miami
Keith Newman LB 6'2" 248 Miami
Jarret Johnson DE 6'3" 285 Baltimore
Adalius Thomas OLB 6'2" 270 Baltimore
Troy Evans LB 6'2" 240 Houston
Ndukwe Kalu DE 6'4" 265 Houston
Shantee Orr LB 6'0" 250 Houston
DaShon Polk LB 6'2" 242 Houston
Wali Rainer LB 6'2" 247 Houston
E.J. Henderson LB 6'1" 245 Minnesota
Peter Sirmon OLB 6'2" 246 Tennessee
D.D. Lewis LB 6'1" 240 Seattle
Kemp Rasmussen DE 6'3" 255 Seattle
Joe Tafoya DE 6'4" 265 Seattle
James Allen FS 6'2" 245 New Orleans
Danny Clark LB 6'2" 245 New Orleans
Tommy Polley LB 6'3" 240 New Orleans
Scott Shanle LB 6'2" 245 New Orleans
Jeff Posey OLB 6'4" 241 Washington
Isaiah Kacyvenski LB 6'1" 252 St. Louis
Raonall Smith OLB 6'2" 241 St. Louis
Corey Smith DE 6'2" 250 Detroit
Tony Gilbert OLB 6'1" 244 Jacksonville
Chris Claiborne MLB 6'3" 255 NYG
Brandon Short LB 6'3" 253 NYG
Shawn Barber LB 6'2" 240 Philadelphia
Juqua Thomas DE 6'2" 250 Philadelphia
Rob Morris LB 6'2" 243 Indianapolis
Kawika Mitchell LB 6'1" 253 Kansas City
James Darling OLB 6'1" 247 Arizona
Orlando Huff OLB 6'3" 250 Arizona
Patrick Chukwurah LB 6'1"250 Denver
London Fletcher MLB 5'10" 240 Buffalo
Chris Kelsay DE 6'4" 273 Buffalo
Lance Briggs LB 6'0" 242 Chicago

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Inside LB

Paul Posluszny ILB, Penn State


Patrick Willis ILB Mississippi

Might be better for ILB in the 4-3based on a lot of the comments here from the Senior Bowl.

H.B. Blades ILB Pittsburgh

I think he's a better fit for the 4-3 ILB.


Brandon Siler O/ILB, FLordia

Good size and speed.

Buster Davis ILB Florida State

Little short but has good speed and bulk.

TE

Zach Miller TE Arizona State

He's supposed to be a very good player but PLEASEEEEEE NOOOOOO!

DE

Adam Carriker DE (Nebraska)

He'd make a good 3-4 DE but with all our needs I just cannot see it.

- Posluszny (6'1" 237, 4.58/40) - Pos is a bit of a challenge to quantify for the Patriots. People are high on his instincts and intelligence, but it appears he will have a lot of trouble taking on OGs in the Pats' 3-4. It just seems unlikely he will be available for the Patriots to pick or that a rookie LB will be more than a STs player.

- Willis (6'1" 240, 4.60/40) - the pundit consensus is Willis made himself some money during the Senior Bowl. He's exactly at the lower limit I use when evaluating LB measurables for the Pats' system. I think it would be extraordinary if he were to fall past 20, the Tampa defenses have to be drooling over this kid. My impression from the Senior Bowl was he looked like Eric Alexander making his first pro start in Indy.

- Blades (5'11" 237, 4.69/40) - He has a ton of positives, but for the Pats' system...

Negatives: Lacks preferred size for the position. Short arms which limit his ability to break free from blockers. A bit stiff in the hips and a limited pass defender.

- Siler (6'2" 238, 4.59/40) - he gets a glowing write-up, as a prototypical 4-3 OLB. He is expected to go high on the first day. Like the three previous ILBs discussed here, he would need substantial physical development to help him survive inside the Pats 3-4.

- Davis (5'10" 244, 4.76/40) - of the five OLB prospects discussed here, Davis is the one most likely to survive in the Pats 3-4 scheme. The most significant issue...

Lack of prototypical size is compounded by the fact that Davis doesn't use his hands well to fight through blocks and plays with much more finesse than physicality. Looks to run around blocks rather than take them on squarely, counter to his reputation.

I can see this kid being a fit for the Pats, the question remains, which round? draftscout and I agree, his value is in rounds 3-4 or lower.

My initial LB board is focused on players who might be able to move inside:
Stewart Bradley 6'4" 256 - led the North in tackles at the Senior Bowl, reported to be very good in coverage.
Zak DeOssie 6'4" 245 - made an impression at the Shrine game playing solidly at OLB and doing a great job on STs in coverage and long snapping.
Prescott Burgess 6'3" 246 - I need to watch the game tape for a more accurate assessment, but I came away with a good impression.
Jon Abbate 5'11" 245, 4.67/40 - he gets a glowing write-up.
Marvin Mitchell 6'3" 252, /4.84/40 - good size, good on STs.
Blair Phillips 6'1" 245, 4.85/40 - standout for Oregon, appears to be decent in coverage.
David Harris 6'2" 239, 4.75/40 - #2 in tackles for the North at the Senior Bowl, showed good toughness in traffic and good instincts. His frame appears to be capable of eventually adding ten pounds or so and getting his weight up to improve his survivability inside the Pats 3-4. He is currently the highest ranked of these LBs on my board with a 2nd round grade.
Justin Warren 6'3" 242, 4.78/40 - 1st team all Big 12 two years in a row, reported to have some pass coverage skills too.
Anthony Waters 6'3" 242, 4.59/40 -

The fifth-year senior was the ACC's top returning tackler entering 2006 season, but suffered a torn ACL in season-opening game and had major surgery Sept. 18. He'll need to test well in combine and in private workouts, but normally it takes a full year to completing recover from major knee surgery, so that will affect his draft status.

TE - Miller (6'5" 260, 4.79/40) -

Possibly the most talented tight end in college footballl...combines mental and physical toughness, amazing receiving skills and punishing effort as a blocker.

What's not to like? Hopefully Graham re-signs, but Miller or Clark Harris (Rutgers) would seem to be good all-around TEs to complement Watson and Thomas.

DE - Carricker (6'6" 292, 4.86) - Right now Carricker and LOT Levi Brown are the two guys with first round grades whom I see making it to the middle of round one and providing an upgrade for the Pats, Brown will eventually challenge Light and Kaczur for LT, and Carricker will eventually compete with Green and Wright. I'd certainly like to grab him before the Jets gets hold of him. Some will argue for CBs, and they may be right, but I want to spend more time with them

 

[everlong]

DE - Carricker (6'6" 292, 4.86) - Right now Carricker and LOT Levi Brown are the two guys with first round grades whom I see making it to the middle of round one and providing an upgrade for the Pats, Brown will eventually challenge Light and Kaczur for LT, and Carricker will eventually compete with Green and Wright. I'd certainly like to grab him before the Jets gets hold of him. Some will argue for CBs, and they may be right, but I want to spend more time with them

I was reading an article yesterday by McShay saying if the Bengals switch to a 3-4 as rumored he'll go to Cincy in the late teens and if not the Pats will have a hard time not taking him because they know the Jets will.

Somebody posted this in another thread I'll highlight thet players we've been talking about

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=23954&pcid=41


-I have been watching Mississippi ILB Patrick Willis closely for the last two years. I believe he’s one of the best defensive players in the draft and someone who can come in and contribute for an NFL team right away. Mississippi Head Coach Ed Orgeron said he thinks Willis will be a better pro than Lofa Tatupu, who he saw a lot of when he served as the defensive line coach at USC.

Willis had a great week of practice in Mobile, where he proved to be the best inside linebacker prospect on either squad. There were questions about Willis’ coverage skills but he answered some of those throughout the week by sticking to tight ends and running backs during 11-on-11 drills. At 6-2, 230 pounds, Willis also does a good job of taking on offensive linemen and shedding blockers. His had 137 total tackles as a senior and ranked third nationally in solo tackles.

In the game itself, Willis made a nice tackle on the opening kickoff but had a tough first series on defense. He was driven back by Rutgers RB Brian Leonard on a fourth-and-1 and then was pancaked by a pulling guard on the next play that allowed Penn State’s Tony Hunt to score. Willis settled down after the first series and was active against the run. He made a hard tackle on Kansas State RB Thomas Clayton at the 2-yard line to force a fumble that went out of bounds. Willis had a very solid game after a slow start and should cement himself as the best inside linebacker in this draft at the combine.

-Purdue’s Anthony Spencer was a defensive end in college but at 6-3, 260 pounds, he would be a good fit as an outside pass rusher in a 3-4 defense. Spencer is an excellent athlete with tremendous speed off the corner. He’s also strong for his size, bench-pressing over 500 pounds.

-A player we’re keeping a close eye on here at PFW is Miami S Brandon Meriweather. He has some character concerns that could turn off a team like the Patriots but on the field the hard-hitting safety is a stud in the defensive backfield.

Meriweather is that rare breed of safety in the Rodney Harrison-mold where he has the speed to cover a lot of ground in coverage, as well as the ability to turn out the lights on a receiver. A physical player with a mean streak, Meriweather is very good in run support and is always around the football. He had 259 tackles and seven interceptions during his career at Miami.

The former Hurricane had an impressive week of practice and was a force once the game started. Meriweather put a big hit on Fresno State WR Paul Williams in the second quarter to prevent a completion. He was also active coming up against the run and sticking ball carriers. Meriweather broke up a pass intended for Notre Dame’s Rhema McKnight on a fade route to save a touchdown when he reached in and batted the ball down. He showed good instincts in the third quarter by ripping the football away from Hunt but the referees called the running back down.

The combine will be very important for Meriweather, especially the interview process. If he can assure NFL teams that he’s matured over the last few months, he has a chance to be a first-round selection in April’s draft. In regards to his play on the field, Meriweather is a physical, athletic safety that could become be a huge asset to the Patriots defense. Like I said, PFW will be following Meriweather closely over the next three months and we’ll be sure to keep Patriots fans informed on his progress.

--He loves Leonard--

Leonard, or “Mr. Patriot” as I like to call him, is a versatile player who lined up at both running back and fullback in college.
This is a guy who does everything well. He’s a tough inside runner, can get to the outside, blocks well and is a tremendous receiver out of the backfield. Unlike Hunt, Leonard is a very good practice player. He really turned some heads last week and is shooting up the draft boards.

Considered a RB/FB hybrid, Leonard shed 15 pounds before the Senior Bowl to show NFL scouts that he could be a primary running back at the pro level. While I don’t agree with his strategy, it didn’t seem to bother Leonard during the game. He converted two short runs into first downs by driving back both Willis and Florida State’s Buster Davis on separate plays, two of the top inside linebacker prospects in this draft. Leonard also showed quick feet in the open field when he caught a pass on fourth down, made a defender miss, and got beyond the chains to keep the drive alive.

If there was ever a time to use the phrase “A Patriots-kind of player,” this is it. Leonard has the versatility to play running back, fullback and special teams. Those kinds of skills will make the Rutgers standout a very sought after commodity come draft day.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

ILB

- Posluszny

Poslusny is a good cover LB. He look so small now (I think he looks like a large saftey) that if we drafted him, it would take awhile for him to build his body up to the necessary specs in order to survive at ILB in our 3-4 scheme.

- Patrick Willis
I like Patrick Willis. Every Tampa-2 team are and should be drooling over him. He has the sufficient speed to cover from sideline to sideline. First of all, I wouldn't be shocked if Willis didn't make it past the Rams. I doubt he will fall to 24. Willis seems to have problems getting off blocks of big guards, which is a necessary attribute for any NE Patriot ILB.

- Stewart Bradley
I like Bradley. He's got the frame 6-4, 256 that is necessary to play in our system. He was noted at the Senior Bowl for his ability to cover TE/RB. He can get off blocks, and forced a fumble at the Senior Bowl. The NFL is a meat market, and I don't see Bradley lasting to #56. If BB wants him, it might require a 1st round pick.

-David Harris
David Harris has "it." He had "it" in Michigan (a team leader), and he has "it" now. He works through trash, gets off blocks, makes decisive reads, and hits like a freight train. Might need some work on his coverage. Harris a big enough frame to get up to 250 in my opinion. I think he might be still available at #56.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

I am not irrationally high on Stewart Bradley either.

Here's a mock of him going in the 1st round to the Ravens at #29.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/01/25/mock.draft1.part3/index.html

 

[ayjackson]

BOR,

We can't predict what's going to happen before the 24th pick in the draft, but reading your analysis of linebackers, it seems that the value for Pats-style 'backers will probably fall somewhere after the first round. Is this fair comment?

Do you have an inkling as to what positions will yield value for the Pats at 24 and 28? I have been thinking that WR definitely yields value, but have also had my eye on Carriker.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

BOR,

We can't predict what's going to happen before the 24th pick in the draft, but reading your analysis of linebackers, it seems that the value for Pats-style 'backers will probably fall somewhere after the first round. Is this fair comment?

Do you have an inkling as to what positions will yield value for the Pats at 24 and 28? I have been thinking that WR definitely yields value, but have also had my eye on Carriker.

P-80 noted there is one mock showing Stewart Bradly going in the first round, at the moment he is the one "real" LB in this draft I could see BB drafting day one - if that meant 1st round for a LB he wanted...

Right now every position is going to have value at the end of round one, even QB for all I know. I won't settle on any position until well into Free Agency, and I'll probably be wrong then too.

 

[Seymour93]

- Griffin (6' 195, 4.48/40) - talent aside, his size says CB or FS, if he can play CB (which Mike Mayock, NFL Network's draft guru claims) well and good. But myself, I'm shopping for a Strong Safety to compete with Sanders (Jones and Mitchell can compete for STs).Ouch! if the kid isn't strong on run support he's off my board. Perhaps Seymour93 will correct me and backstop his boy, but he's got two strikes on my shopping list size and run support.

Sorry I'm late. Disclaimer: I focus a little more on the Pats than the Horns. I'll single in on a guy when watching the Pats, for example I kept my eyes on Alexander throughout the AFCCG… however I don't usually do the same when watching Texas.

Anyone who watched a single minute of the Horns this past season could tell you the weak link was the secondary. The DB's as a group were ranked statistically in the 100's (out of all the NCAA Division I teams) regarding pass yards allowed. Actually I'm almost certain that the D overall was in the Top 20 when it came to run defense. Run D has always been strength of the Horns. The young nickel and dime backs killed the team. They were abused against Ohio St., Kansas St., and Texas Tech. Griffin missed a lot of tackles and so did his twin brother Marcus. Whether he was out of position frequently is something I'm unable to comment on, but I can tell you that the secondary gave up way too many long passes for TD's.