Do you wish the Patriots challenged Goodell (like the Saints are doing)?

[pherein]

It amazes me that people with minimal comprehension skills

What amazes me is that you can spot them so quickly, you must be quite extradondinary.

 

[Joker]

But what does Kraft know compared to the tin foil brigade.

can't spell hat or just forgot?...right ,Washington Redskins, as I posted numerous times last year..you got me on that one,GeniusPartyMocks...an honest failure of memory...oh well, at least I can spell simple one syllable words...and of course ask why this somehow absolves you of printing the outright lie that he's a Giant fan...oh, and speaking of the Redskins,this former Skin' corner has some diametrically opposed things to say about Goodell in direct contrast to your own opinion.

Fred Smoot Sounds Off On NFL Commissioner, Calls Goodell A “Dictator” « CBS DC

Can't wait to read your inevitable "he's another stupid/greedy/easily led entitled dumb jock player" screed.

New England's Robert Kraft, one of the most influential of the newest owners, said: "Roger got his MBA from Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue. That's not a bad education."

heh...right...FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING...Bob was referring to the time Goodell spent as an employee of the NFL offices. Reality is that Goodell possesses no such MBA, he's simply a graduate of a business program at Washington & Jefferson College.. The idea that Goodell is an MBA trained executive is unadulterated horse manure.. It's amazing how many lies you post a day and state them as FACT...simply amazing. Goodell worked for Rozelle in the sense that hundreds of others worked for him. He was never under Rozelle's tutelage. That person was Tagliabue...the same Tagliabue YOU excoriated in this thread earlier on...NOW, Tags is Roger The Great's Aristotle, as long as it fits your pathological need to artificially inflate the legacy of Roger Goodell to date.Anybody can see this by juxtaposing what you just posted about Tagliabue with what you posted earlier..

"He{Goodell) was elected to change a culture and clean up what was becoming a messy image and a potential failing business model as his predecessor and De's increasingly fell victim to the desire to protect or re-frame their personal legacies.

what is it??.."learned at the feet of the master, Tagliabue!" or "cleaned up the mess of the incompetent more worried about his legacy!"...flip,flop...flip, flop...but all of it FACT, right?...Come one come all to the magical mystery tour of MLR World...where cat is kat and then it's cat and your cences will astound your senses as you attempt to unravel the riddle of Roger's Golden Rod Of Correction using any hearsay you can to build the Empire Fact Building....

Gregg Levy's business qualifications dwarfed Goodell's when the owners met to choose a new commissioner...THIS is the primary reason WHY they went with Goodell..

Marc Ganis, the president of sports industry consultant SportsCorp Ltd. in Chicago, said it made sense to hire someone from within the NFL because the league doesn't operate as a traditional business organization.

``Someone from the outside who's used to dealing with a CEO and board of directors would not be comfortable within the NFL structure,'' Ganis said in a telephone interview. ``The board is the owners and they have a great deal of input. You need someone comfortable with being an employee and boss at the same time.''

That's right...in essence , a cat's paw...which is who Goodell is, no matter how you try to dress this pig up in silk and pearls.

One more thing,pointing out that a certain mocking, derisive poster cannot seem to spell simple monosyllabic words is an attempt to help fans of other teams, such as the Saints, understand that not all Patriot fans are "loosers" who try to pigeonhole them with some artificially constructed "concensus".THAT type of invented fact,mudslinging and open lying is reserved for the Jets Suck thread....after all, one must fight "fyre" with "fier" sometimes.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

But what does Kraft know compared to the tin foil brigade.

can't spell hat or just forgot?...right ,Washington Redskins, as I posted numerous times last year..you got me on that one,GeniusPartyMocks...an honest failure of memory...oh well, at least I can spell simple one syllable words...and of course ask why this somehow absolves you of printing the outright lie that he's a Giant fan...oh, and speaking of the Redskins,this former Skin' corner has some diametrically opposed things to say about Goodell in direct contrast to your own opinion.

I never said he grew up a Giants fan, just surmised he was never a Jets fan. His father served one term as a Senator from NY, and I imagine a box at the Meadowlands in what was Giants Stadium was part of the gig back in the day. You persist in tying him to the Jets even though he worked first for the league as an intern and just did a year as an intern with the Jets before returning to the league for the next 21 years before becoming Commissioner. You profess he owes his career to a man who didn't own the team until 2000. Heck, even Hess wasn't the sole owner back when Goodell did his internship. They offered him an entry level coaching gig, but he turned them down (like Bill) preferring to return to the league offices to become an administrator.

That guy he lost out to, the career litigator, serves the league far better in the spot he has retained as it's primary outside counsel. He's batting a thousand against the bountygate plaintiffs so far...

And why would anyone care about the ramblings of a former Redskins CB...especially when he's attacking one of four other former players and a coach who claimed Williams ran a similar program in DC...Washington Redskins also ran a bounty program under Gregg Williams

Fred Smoot Sounds Off On NFL Commissioner, Calls Goodell A “Dictator” « CBS DC

Can't wait to read your inevitable "he's another stupid/greedy/easily led entitled dumb jock player" screed.

New England's Robert Kraft, one of the most influential of the newest owners, said: "Roger got his MBA from Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue. That's not a bad education."

heh...right...FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING...Bob was referring to the time Goodell spent as an employee of the NFL offices. Reality is that Goodell possesses no such MBA, he's simply a graduate of a business program at Washington & Jefferson College.. The idea that Goodell is an MBA trained executive is unadulterated horse manure..Then your gripe is with the manure spewing Kraft. It's amazing how many lies you post a day and state them as FACT...simply amazing. Just like he owes his career to Leon Hess let alone Woody Johnson...LOL Goodell worked for Rozelle in the sense that hundreds of others worked for him. He was never under Rozelle's tutelage. That person was Tagliabue...the same Tagliabue YOU excoriated in this thread earlier on...NOW, Tags is Roger The Great's Aristotle, as long as it fits your pathological need to artificially inflate the legacy of Roger Goodell to date.Anybody can see this by juxtaposing what you just posted about Tagliabue with what you posted earlier..But I guess they can't see this by juxtaposing what you continually post about Goodell's relationship to the Jets...LOL

"He{Goodell) was elected to change a culture and clean up what was becoming a messy image and a potential failing business model as his predecessor and De's increasingly fell victim to the desire to protect or re-frame their personal legacies.

what is it??.."learned at the feet of the master, Tagliabue!" or "cleaned up the mess of the incompetent more worried about his legacy!"...flip,flop...flip, flop...but all of it FACT, right?...Come one come all to the magical mystery tour of MLR World...where cat is kat and then it's cat and your cences will astound your senses as you attempt to unravel the riddle of Roger's Golden Rod Of Correction using any hearsay you can to build the Empire Fact Building.... Tagliabue continued to grow the league early in his tenure, with a little help from his right hand man since 1990, the guy Rozelle tapped to be AFC President Lamar hunts right hand man in 1987 (although he probably hardly knew he existed among hundreds of minions), but by the end of his time both he and Upshaw had personal agendas. Tagliabue didn't want a work stoppage on his resume and Upshaw wanted to retool his resume as a rubber stamp union leader who went along to get along.

Gregg Levy's business qualifications dwarfed Goodell's when the owners met to choose a new commissioner...THIS is the primary reason WHY they went with Goodell..

Marc Ganis, the president of sports industry consultant SportsCorp Ltd. in Chicago, said it made sense to hire someone from within the NFL because the league doesn't operate as a traditional business organization.

``Someone from the outside who's used to dealing with a CEO and board of directors would not be comfortable within the NFL structure,'' Ganis said in a telephone interview. ``The board is the owners and they have a great deal of input. You need someone comfortable with being an employee and boss at the same time.''

That's right...in essence , a cat's paw...which is who Goodell is, no matter how you try to dress this pig up in silk and pearls.

Only Levy had been the league's legal cat's paw for over a decade, it's litigation specialist and outside counsel as a member of the same prestigious law from from which Tagliabue had come. I think the smart business men knew that they didn't need a litigator at the helm. After all, Kraft kept getting them all kicked out of the room as the means to achieving the most recent CBA...

One more thing,pointing out that a certain mocking, derisive poster cannot seem to spell simple monosyllabic words is an attempt to help fans of other teams, such as the Saints, understand that not all Patriot fans are "loosers" who try to pigeonhole them with some artificially constructed "concensus".THAT type of invented fact,mudslinging and open lying is reserved for the Jets Suck thread....after all, one must fight "fyre" with "fier" sometimes.

The Jets Suck thread is really your forte, you should simply post all your rantings there.

 

[Gumby]

............... So a 5th ballot election represents a pretty significant consensus when it comes to electing NFL Commissioners...

Quote: Goodell remained the favorite even through a four-month search conducted by a committee headed by Rooney and Carolina's Jerry Richardson. There was no question that he was the choice of the league's most important owners all along, but none declared any allegiance until the finale.

"I said from the beginning that we were going to look for the man to lead us," Rooney said he told the owners during the voting Wednesday afternoon. "I said that when we finished, I had no doubt that that was Roger Goodell."

New England's Robert Kraft, one of the most influential of the newest owners, said: "Roger got his MBA from Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue. That's not a bad education."

But what does Kraft know compared to the tin foil brigade.

Just me; but I wouldn’t give much credence to the Kraft quote if it came AFTER the election.

As your earlier notes said; once he had the 23 votes; all the owners voted unanimously to confirm the election. So Kraft was NOT going to say anything bad about the guy after the election. AND you could take that as a backhanded compliment too; ‘he doesn’t have a REAL MBA he just worked for Rozelle and Tagliabue”

Also, I don’t know when the quote is seriously doubt he was on record with this prior to a supposedly open election.

So all in all I think the quote is a bad defense of GoToHell. A better defense is the continuing mystery to me of why Kraft would support continuation and pay promotion. ???? oh well.

 

[stcjones]

I think you are right here. I think that as the Saints players and management keep challenging the accusations over and over it LOOKS worse and worse and stays on the front page of the news. Even Drew Brees, who I used to respect, can't keep his dumb a## out of it. Not paraphrasing: "Until someone comes out with direct proof showing that our guys did something illegal I think they should stop persecuting these players" Uhh Drew....they have tapes of Lewis INCITING his troops to hurt Frank Gore and others and players are cheering etc. It's like Roger Clemens...you can keep dragging it out in the courts (I know not by his choice this last time) and keep denying it....but in the end EVERYONE with half a brain knows he is GUILTY.....and the Saints are too. And as for Mr. Brees....time to smarten up and at the least offer "No comment".......

No, I don't. I would have made any difference and if anything would have made NE look worse. And how could you "call into question" the evidence? NE was unquestionably doing the taping. As for questioning Goodell's motives, I doubt it's wise for a club to start a long-running feud with its league's commissioner.

As for the Saints, it's the Saints players that are doing the challenging. What have Saints ownership, management, and coaches challenged?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

OK, so Goodell now admits it likely wasn't Hargrove on the tape but Hargrove is still suspended nonetheless.

League backs off view that Hargrove said “give me my money” | ProFootballTalk

“For purposes of addressing Mr. Hargrove’s appeal,” Goodell writes, “I need not resolve the issue of who made the statement. Instead, I am prepared to assume — as he apparently stated publicly — that he did not make it. But that statement is relevant because, regardless of which player said it, it corroborates other evidence that there was an incentive in place for knocking Mr. Favre out of the game and that the members of the Saints defense, including Mr. Hargrove, were well aware of that fact. The identity of the player who made the statement was immaterial to my decision on your appears and did not affect the level of discipline imposed on Mr. Hargrove.”

Why not suspend the whole team then? Or at least the whole defense.

More random, arbitrary, irrational decision making by the one with the God complex. And this is what the original point of the thread was before the requisite hijack once again turned it into another idiotic pissing contest.

 

[pherein]

OK, so Goodell now admits it likely wasn't Hargrove on the tape but Hargrove is still suspended nonetheless.

League backs off view that Hargrove said “give me my money” | ProFootballTalk

“For purposes of addressing Mr. Hargrove’s appeal,” Goodell writes, “I need not resolve the issue of who made the statement. Instead, I am prepared to assume — as he apparently stated publicly — that he did not make it. But that statement is relevant because, regardless of which player said it, it corroborates other evidence that there was an incentive in place for knocking Mr. Favre out of the game and that the members of the Saints defense, including Mr. Hargrove, were well aware of that fact. The identity of the player who made the statement was immaterial to my decision on your appears and did not affect the level of discipline imposed on Mr. Hargrove.”

Why not suspend the whole team then? Or at least the whole defense.

More random, arbitrary, irrational decision making by the one with the God complex. And this is what the original point of the thread was before the requisite hijack once again turned it into another idiotic pissing contest.

Thanks, and Im a little guilty of having prostrate trouble
This just shows that Goodell is not impartial, will justify his false evidence and not admit a mistake, does not possess the adult ability to arbitrate the NFL, and defiantly has a god complex or an irrational ego disfunction.

He is still willing to suspend a player that has proved 3 times now that the evidence against him is false. Its completely ridicules.

I would of liked to see the Patriots fight more, to at least get the tapes out and prove what BB had said that they were for future training purposes only.
But, when you look at how this one situation is being mishandled, I just can't believe that anything would have made a difference. Godell would have never backed down, admitted he was wrong, and changed any of the fines. I think the Patriots would have been fighting a losing battle regardless of the facts.
The fact that he supports the player injury list. I mean how hard is it to make the players sign a dang waiver that if you want millions the NFL is not responsible for injuries sustained, and that you taking your own life into your hands. Gad, I think the Porn industry has better litigation than the NFL.

The fact that on numerous occasions he has shown to be negligent in handling the NFL's future. Vick should have forfeited his right to millions by his activities. Spygate should have been explained to the public, and not dragged a teams name threw the mudd. You can't suspend people when you don't have proof of their activities. The list is just endless from the time he became commissioner.

Using the Patriots example. What good does it do to allow this complete fake facade of a cheating team exist ? Its not good for the NFL. It creates fan problems and even, Im sure, some injuries. It created anger, and misguided accusations. It taints and stains the Patriots SB accomplishments.
It puts into question the validity and talent of BB and the Patriots. It made them look like jerks, and cheaters to the rest of the uninformed fans. Its annoying and unnecessary. Its made the game worse.
It could have been handled easily with and adult who understand fans, the game, and gave a damn about reputation and working things out to a greater good.

Godell doesn't care about fans or our teams, or making a better future for the NFL. He's about $, ego, and flaunting his power. Typical mindless CEO that spends millions to redo the company logo, letterhead, and envelops, but has no money to keep the talent that made the company.
Im not surprised he was hired, most BOD I've worked with, have no clue who they are hiring as CEO.
Im all for what the Saints are doing because I want to see this idiot under oath, and want to see him look stupid. I think most of America had a wake up call when the Big 5 Car makers CEO's went to congress and looked like unprepared fools. Ive seen it a lot and laughed so hard. Yes they are that dumb and think no one can touch them. Unfortunately their right, lol. I want him under oath.

I think the Patriots did what they had to do, and for some reason, someone had the foresight to see the end game and figured out Godell early. Did it help NFL by not fighting? Probably not. Did it help to perpetuate Godells ego? Probably. Its someone eventually going to have to stand up to Godell? yep.
But , the important thing is did the Patriots do the right thing at that time in the season for there own team ? yes, I think they did.

 

[pherein]

Mr. Brees....time to smarten up and at the least offer "No comment".......

Really, so Brady defending your team is annoying and stupid. Id be pretty disappointed in Brady if he didn't support his team in the same situation, maybe even blindly. And so you know one reason Brees is not signing is that he can still talk to SP, once he signs he can't anymore.
But Brees is a D@ck because he's vocal about his team mates ?

you know a person, who is not stupid, would be able to figure out that Brees putting himself out there has nothing to hide. If he did he'd shut his mouth.

 

[ausbacker]

Thanks, and Im a little guilty of having prostrate trouble
This just shows that Goodell is not impartial, will justify his false evidence and not admit a mistake, does not possess the adult ability to arbitrate the NFL, and defiantly has a god complex or an irrational ego disfunction.

He is still willing to suspend a player that has proved 3 times now that the evidence against him is false. Its completely ridicules.

I would of liked to see the Patriots fight more, to at least get the tapes out and prove what BB had said that they were for future training purposes only.
But, when you look at how this one situation is being mishandled, I just can't believe that anything would have made a difference. Godell would have never backed down, admitted he was wrong, and changed any of the fines. I think the Patriots would have been fighting a losing battle regardless of the facts.
The fact that he supports the player injury list. I mean how hard is it to make the players sign a dang waiver that if you want millions the NFL is not responsible for injuries sustained, and that you taking your own life into your hands. Gad, I think the Porn industry has better litigation than the NFL.

The fact that on numerous occasions he has shown to be negligent in handling the NFL's future. Vick should have forfeited his right to millions by his activities. Spygate should have been explained to the public, and not dragged a teams name threw the mudd. You can't suspend people when you don't have proof of their activities. The list is just endless from the time he became commissioner.

Using the Patriots example. What good does it do to allow this complete fake facade of a cheating team exist ? Its not good for the NFL. It creates fan problems and even, Im sure, some injuries. It created anger, and misguided accusations. It taints and stains the Patriots SB accomplishments.
It puts into question the validity and talent of BB and the Patriots. It made them look like jerks, and cheaters to the rest of the uninformed fans. Its annoying and unnecessary. Its made the game worse.
It could have been handled easily with and adult who understand fans, the game, and gave a damn about reputation and working things out to a greater good.

Godell doesn't care about fans or our teams, or making a better future for the NFL. He's about $, ego, and flaunting his power. Typical mindless CEO that spends millions to redo the company logo, letterhead, and envelops, but has no money to keep the talent that made the company.
Im not surprised he was hired, most BOD I've worked with, have no clue who they are hiring as CEO.
Im all for what the Saints are doing because I want to see this idiot under oath, and want to see him look stupid. I think most of America had a wake up call when the Big 5 Car makers CEO's went to congress and looked like unprepared fools. Ive seen it a lot and laughed so hard. Yes they are that dumb and think no one can touch them. Unfortunately their right, lol. I want him under oath.

I think the Patriots did what they had to do, and for some reason, someone had the foresight to see the end game and figured out Godell early. Did it help NFL by not fighting? Probably not. Did it help to perpetuate Godells ego? Probably. Its someone eventually going to have to stand up to Godell? yep.
But , the important thing is did the Patriots do the right thing at that time in the season for there own team ? yes, I think they did.

Keep the ranting to the Saints board pherein. Goodell cares about the NFL. It's not a wise position to propose otherwise.

I understand you're hurting given the allegations thrown against the Saints organisation founded and unfounded, but the fact is, you have to accept that the Saints have transgressed, have been punished, accepted that fact and moved on (apart from four players). If improvements can be made to the investigation and a greater degree of truth comes out then great.

You don't have to like Goodell but questioning his commitment to the NFL is fairly poor. He's a damn sight more committed to ensuring the health of the NFL than any one of us are.

 

[Deus Irae]

...This just shows that Goodell is not impartial, will justify his false evidence and not admit a mistake, does not possess the adult ability to arbitrate the NFL, and defiantly has a god complex or an irrational ego disfunction...

It doesn't show any such thing. You might want to take note of the fact that you're doing precisely the sorts of things that you're accusing Goodell of doing.

 

[BradyFTW!]

While I agree with the last couple of posts in that pherein has kinda gone off the rails at this point, at the same time I think we can all remember what the immediate aftermath of Spygate was like. When pretty much the entire NFL, including the league office itself, is seemingly against you, it's hard to retain perspective. I know that a whole lot of us failed at it, and if you want to go and look through the Patsfans archives for threads made throughout the 2007 season, that will confirm it.

At least in our case the ****storm happened after the season started, so we had 16 more weeks of football, the playoffs, and an undefeated season to distract us.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

These players have chosen to be pawns in a backstory that underscores the disconnect between the NFLPA and the league about power that was traded for money that seemingly hasn't materialized. A strategy that for a time allows them to both to publicly unite as victims rather than face potentially being publicly labeled as total screw ups...

Just makes me prouder than ever of the way this organization has chosen to handle their business with the league, from the top down. Accountability isn't just paid lip service here, which is why it works here. And why teams like the Saints will never really be like the Patriots, no matter how much an admirer like pherien wants to believe they are. Robert Kraft certainly saw something in Goodell that resonated with him, leading him to champion him as a concensus candidate to replace the lawyer commissioner Tagliabue. Kind of like Tagliabue's predecessor, former Rams PR man turned GM, Roselle, who built the present day NFL model that resulted in league that is the envy of all others despite extensive ties to one team. Kind of makes Goodell's year as a JETS PR gopher, although I believe he grew up a Giants fan... pale in comparison. Really smart people get ahead because they can compartmentalize that stuff.

When Wilfork was fined and felt he was being misrepresented as a dirty player, he and Bianca (who bills less than Vilma's lawyer with the losing track record) attended his appeal and presented his case and got his fine reduced while also admitting that he had made some mistakes in letting his temper get the better of him and he was going to work on that. And he hasn't poked anyone in the eye since... When Rodney's name appeared on some HgH purveyors billing records he came clean rather than file suit in hopes of injunctively postponing any potential penalty until his playing days were over. When Bill got caught doing something the league clearly didn't want teams doing, even though lots of teams were, he and Robert apologized and paid their penalties and moved on. Even though a segment of their own fan base apparently never will.

Goodell is all about the carrot and the stick. Even though he takes it personally when players or owners or coaches attempt to put self interest above the best interests of the game or the league. I think he's a lot like Belichick in that he has the courage of his convictions and he doesn't loose sleep over public perceptions or opinions. He was elected to change a culture and clean up what was becoming a messy image and a potential failing business model as his predecessor and De's increasingly fell victim to the desire to protect or re-frame their personal legacies.

The owners just extended his term and doubled his salary, so they must be on board with his approach. The smart ones wanted an authority figure as commissioner who would not only grow the game and clean up it's image but one who would discipline anyone - including rogue owners or FO's or coaches as well as players - who threatened either. And that is exactly who and what they got. He takes the heat for the tough decisions allowing them to maintain civil relationships with their partners, employees and fans. That's why he makes the big bucks. Still trying to figure out why De does...because he's failed his constituents miserably.

Unswayed Goodell gives nary an inch to counterattacking players - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy

Fine post Mo.

On that highlighted portion: truth is that there is a segment of the ENTIRE fanbase, not just the Patsfans, who refuse to move on.

But then 'move-on' from what?

I think all have moved-on from the camera-gate incident.

It is a question of how you label the incident that is causing this soreness even after the passage of time. If you consider breaking the rule as cheating, the Pats are cheats. If no, you are either a Pats fan or knowlegable NFL fan. (And for the record, I cringe when many in this fanbase happily use the word 'spy', which unconciously puts us in a negative light. )

Fall out of this camera-gate scandal is that outside of NE, a good % of the fans will always think that the Patriots cheated. They have also moved on, but will never change their conclusion that the Pats cheated.

I think I have also 'moved on' by ignoring such taunts when I am in the bars here in the NY/NJ area.

But heck, I wish Mr. Kraft and BB at least protested instead of silently accepting such a costly fine that clearly convicted them in the eyes of the public.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Geez...
Yes, technically you can get a murder conviction without a dead body. But unless you are in North Korea, you cannot get a murder conviction when the alleged murder victim is standing next to you alive... which seems to be the point that falls on deaf ears where non-NO fans are concerned. And unlike a murder case where there is no body and someone is just not there, there is actually video of every game the Saints have played in... you guys are familiar with video tape, no?

And yes, you can get a conviction on conspiracy to commit murder, but we are not talking about a conspiracy here. According to the NFL the Saints actually committed the crimes and bounties were paid after the commission of of said crime -that's how "bounties" work, no? you get paid AFTER you do the deed. I mean, now you are going to tell me the NFL issued (combined) 30-game suspension, 12-15 million dollars in fines/lost wages, and just about ended the career of one player because they "talked about it"? No. The NFL was very clear in their allegations that bounties were paid for hurting players, even if the NFL is now crawfishing and saying things like "result of legal hit was the player didn't return to the game".

As for Cerullo and his involvement in this, that's no conspiracy theory. It was almost a certainty he was involved in this, now it has been confirmed and validated.

yeah, every nfl game has been taped from every angle imaginable for the past 40 or so years. what we're not familiar with is trying to send the other teams players out on a stretcher and getting a little side money for it. this ain't rollerball.

 

[rfournier103]

No way. Here's my take on it...

The NFL and the Krafts wanted this to GO AWAY. There's no way the NFL could not penalize the Patriots; so they did. Harshly. A total of $750.000 and a draft pick isn't peanuts.

The evidence was destroyed by the NFL so NO ONE would ever see it again. Why? Because the NFL, as all major leagues, gets it's legitimacy from the fans knowing that the games are on the level, and the outcomes are not predetermined. If anything contradicting that were ever to surface, imagine the outcry. Lawsuits from fans. People would stop watching. The NFL could NOT allow that to happen. Even the suggestion that one team had an unfair advantage over the other 31 makes the NFL cringe.

I do think that there was some advantage to be gained. Otherwise, why would Belichick do the taping? That man does nothing without a reason. I have no idea how much of an advantage it was, but there had to be something.

I think the Patriots got off as easilly as they did was because they fully co-operated with Goodell, and gave up everything they had. No one lied (as far as we know) and tried to cover it up. No one obstructed the investigation, and EVERYONE kept their mouths shut afterward.

Belichick could very easily have been suspended or even expelled from the NFL. Instead, the Pats went 18-1 and won the AFC Championship. The Pats did ok. They didn't fight it and it could have been alot worse. Look at the Saints... I guarantee they won't go 18-1.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

No way. Here's my take on it...

The NFL and the Krafts wanted this to GO AWAY. There's no way the NFL could not penalize the Patriots; so they did. Harshly. A total of $750.000 and a draft pick isn't peanuts.

The evidence was destroyed by the NFL so NO ONE would ever see it again. Why? Because the NFL, as all major leagues, gets it's legitimacy from the fans knowing that the games are on the level, and the outcomes are not predetermined. If anything contradicting that were ever to surface, imagine the outcry. Lawsuits from fans. People would stop watching. The NFL could NOT allow that to happen. Even the suggestion that one team had an unfair advantage over the other 31 makes the NFL cringe.

I do think that there was some advantage to be gained. Otherwise, why would Belichick do the taping? That man does nothing without a reason. I have no idea how much of an advantage it was, but there had to be something.

I think the Patriots got off as easilly as they did was because they fully co-operated with Goodell, and gave up everything they had. No one lied (as far as we know) and tried to cover it up. No one obstructed the investigation, and EVERYONE kept their mouths shut afterward.

Belichick could very easily have been suspended or even expelled from the NFL. Instead, the Pats went 18-1 and won the AFC Championship. The Pats did ok. They didn't fight it and it could have been alot worse. Look at the Saints... I guarantee they won't go 18-1.

The Patriots were not the only team taping. The offense was taping from a proscribed area. And the (false) perception was that the video was used during the game.

Why would BB have been suspended or expelled from the league for disallowed video camera placement? The mind boggles.

 

[flasox27]

No way. Here's my take on it...

The NFL and the Krafts wanted this to GO AWAY. There's no way the NFL could not penalize the Patriots; so they did. Harshly. A total of $750.000 and a draft pick isn't peanuts.

The evidence was destroyed by the NFL so NO ONE would ever see it again. Why? Because the NFL, as all major leagues, gets it's legitimacy from the fans knowing that the games are on the level, and the outcomes are not predetermined. If anything contradicting that were ever to surface, imagine the outcry. Lawsuits from fans. People would stop watching. The NFL could NOT allow that to happen. Even the suggestion that one team had an unfair advantage over the other 31 makes the NFL cringe.

I do think that there was some advantage to be gained. Otherwise, why would Belichick do the taping? That man does nothing without a reason. I have no idea how much of an advantage it was, but there had to be something.

I think the Patriots got off as easilly as they did was because they fully co-operated with Goodell, and gave up everything they had. No one lied (as far as we know) and tried to cover it up. No one obstructed the investigation, and EVERYONE kept their mouths shut afterward.

Belichick could very easily have been suspended or even expelled from the NFL. Instead, the Pats went 18-1 and won the AFC Championship. The Pats did ok. They didn't fight it and it could have been alot worse. Look at the Saints... I guarantee they won't go 18-1.

I am amazed by the Goodell apologists who lack the historical perspective of the filming but continue to lay the sole blame on the Pats without acknowledging how the gross incompetance if not bias of Goodell was the prime cause of the incident. Goodell was aware of the Jets filming the Pats in the prior year after having issued his so called edict but neither he nor the Pats did anything about it. However he apparently conspired with his former employers, the Jets to make a federal case out of the Pats doing the same thing in order to establish his authority and coincidently damage the reputation and viability of the Jets main rival. He penalized the Pats much more severely than any rules violation of the past. Then he leaked the films to Fox TV to further embarass the Pats before destroying the remaining films. Given his actions only the most gullible sap would believe that the films were destroyed to protect the Pats rather than prove that other teams were captured filming the Pats.
Perhaps next time you think the Pats got off easily, you might want to consider the laughable penalties that Goodell's beloved Jets received for tripping the ball player during a game.
Of course, I might be have misjudged you and you are really a Jets/Goodell fan who has stumbled on to the wrong site. In that case, try posting on Gang Green where you will find a receptive audience.

 

[Joker]

"Never in a million years did I expect it to play out like this," Mangini said. "This is one of those situations where I didn't want them to do the things they were doing. I didn't think it was any kind of significant advantage, but I wasn't going to give them the convenience of doing it in our stadium, and I wanted to shut it down. But there was no intent to get the league involved. There was no intent to have the landslide that it has become."

Eric Mangini regrets turning in Patriots for 'Spygate'

The Jets were caught videotaping at Gillette Stadium last season and the Patriots had that New York employee removed from the area, according to published reports Wednesday. Jets coach Eric Mangini said his team received permission to film behind both end zones during the playoff game in January.

"We taped the game is what we taped, and we taped end-zone copy of the game, and we tape a double-end zone, which is standard operating procedure for us," Mangini said Wednesday. "We request that every single road game, and it's usually granted if physically it's possible. And when people request it from us, we do the same thing: We grant it."

Jets videotaped Patriots last season in Foxborough - NFL - ESPN

I do think that there was some advantage to be gained. Otherwise, why would Belichick do the taping? That man does nothing without a reason. I have no idea how much of an advantage it was, but there had to be something.

but "that man" Mangini wasn't filming for the same reason? All the other teams and their head coaches are different than "that man!!!"? Sounds like you have a very judgmental bias against Bill Belichick and want to see him punished further and ruined. I'd post the thousands of vicious diatribes aimed at Bill by disgruntled Jet fans when he turned down the head coach position there and opted out for the Patriots job, but that wouldn't change the unreasoning hatred still seething in the minds of Jet fans...the same Jet fans who embrace open degeneracy, deviance ,in game documented cheating, drunken assistant coach lying to the media slandering the Patriots, and unbridled gluttony the likes of which has NEVER been seen in any major pro sports venue in history.Of course,acts such as these are not of any consequence whatsoever, as Goodell's actions prove....it's just Belichick, who's real real lucky he's even allowed to work in the league anymore.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

No way. Here's my take on it...

The NFL and the Krafts wanted this to GO AWAY. There's no way the NFL could not penalize the Patriots; so they did. Harshly. A total of $750.000 and a draft pick isn't peanuts.

The evidence was destroyed by the NFL so NO ONE would ever see it again. Why? Because the NFL, as all major leagues, gets it's legitimacy from the fans knowing that the games are on the level, and the outcomes are not predetermined. If anything contradicting that were ever to surface, imagine the outcry. Lawsuits from fans. People would stop watching. The NFL could NOT allow that to happen. Even the suggestion that one team had an unfair advantage over the other 31 makes the NFL cringe.

I do think that there was some advantage to be gained. Otherwise, why would Belichick do the taping? That man does nothing without a reason. I have no idea how much of an advantage it was, but there had to be something.

I think the Patriots got off as easilly as they did was because they fully co-operated with Goodell, and gave up everything they had. No one lied (as far as we know) and tried to cover it up. No one obstructed the investigation, and EVERYONE kept their mouths shut afterward.

Belichick could very easily have been suspended or even expelled from the NFL. Instead, the Pats went 18-1 and won the AFC Championship. The Pats did ok. They didn't fight it and it could have been alot worse. Look at the Saints... I guarantee they won't go 18-1.

what was the advantage ? i have not seen one so called expert analyze and explain how the tapes could be used. that's because every expert knows that teams change their signals constantly. even my high school team changed our defensive signals at halftime. and they've had a better record since they went back to taping from where goodell says it's ok. much ado about nothing.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm amazed at the number of folks who with the benefit of hindsight still lack all perspective where all these issues are concerned. Although it shouldn't surprise me since to this day many of Vick's supporters still play the dogs vs. manslaughter card although he himself move past that long ago. Goodell makes examples of guys or organization who walk right into it in the hopes of once and for all putting a stop to a culture that thinks it's above the game because historically it's gotten off easy. He is determined to get out in front of potential issues that he doesn't want the courts or congress or even the media poking sticks into incessantly to the detriment of the image of the NFL.

Belichick made a rare mistake. Not that he was doing with his tapes what others were said to be attempting to let alone what idiots in the media or jealous fanbases continue to elude to. In fact he admitted that what he did was just for convenience and really a low priority task. But he persisted because he felt he could justify it if need be by playing semantic games (smartest guy in the room syndrome) before he got caught in a very public way that left Goodell little choice but to over react in fear that it could have be worse not to mention to do otherwise would have undermined his fledgling authority. People forget how the media and some of Bill's legion of critics including frustrated peers were lobbying for a suspension.

Goodell has his hands full with the litigious NFLPA and it's members. That was his first and last warning shot across the bow of FO's and coaches. Quit screwing around because you believe you can get away with it. Next one who defies me... And lo and behold just 2 years later someone else took the bait. And to top it off, they lied after receiving fair warning and just kept doing it for 2 more seasons. Pay for performance may have been part of the old boy culture of the NFL. But it's been against the rules since the salary cap was adopted 2 decades ago. And every season teams and players get a reminder from the league that it is. It's almost impossible to police when player run because players won't rat each other out. Then he catches one team violating the rules whose own coaching staff is participating and using terms like bounty and kill shots and cart offs at a time when the league is being sued by hundreds of former players who claim their safety was jeopardized by the league... and they are lucky he opted to limit the penalties to those he did.

It's kind of pathetic that a numbskull like Vick gets it while so many other supposedly bright folks simply can't. Some in NO are atttempting the semantic defense. Bill and Robert were smart enough to know better than to waste time, energy and effort on it. They opted to man up and be accountable and take their lumps, learn from their mistake and just move on. Why anyone would wish they had behaved like a bunch of alternately defiant and whining self absorbed jerks like the Saints is beyond me. There is nothing to be gained in that effort beyond generating a small fortune in billable hours for the lawyers. And we all know how Robert feels about lawyers...

The Patriots make mistakes but they learn from them and they are too smart to waste their time, energy and effort fighting a losing battle when the right thing to do anyway is simply man up, be accountable, take your lumps and move on.

 

[flasox27]

I'm amazed at the number of folks who with the benefit of hindsight still lack all perspective where all these issues are concerned. Although it shouldn't surprise me since to this day many of Vick's supporters still play the dogs vs. manslaughter card although he himself move past that long ago. Goodell makes examples of guys or organization who walk right into it in the hopes of once and for all putting a stop to a culture that thinks it's above the game because historically it's gotten off easy. He is determined to get out in front of potential issues that he doesn't want the courts or congress or even the media poking sticks into incessantly to the detriment of the image of the NFL.

Belichick made a rare mistake. Not that he was doing with his tapes what others were said to be attempting to let alone what idiots in the media or jealous fanbases continue to elude to. In fact he admitted that what he did was just for convenience and really a low priority task. But he persisted because he felt he could justify it if need be by playing semantic games (smartest guy in the room syndrome) before he got caught in a very public way that left Goodell little choice but to over react in fear that it could have be worse not to mention to do otherwise would have undermined his fledgling authority. People forget how the media and some of Bill's legion of critics including frustrated peers were lobbying for a suspension.

Goodell has his hands full with the litigious NFLPA and it's members. That was his first and last warning shot across the bow of FO's and coaches. Quit screwing around because you believe you can get away with it. Next one who defies me... And lo and behold just 2 years later someone else took the bait. And to top it off, they lied after receiving fair warning and just kept doing it for 2 more seasons. Pay for performance may have been part of the old boy culture of the NFL. But it's been against the rules since the salary cap was adopted 2 decades ago. And every season teams and players get a reminder from the league that it is. It's almost impossible to police when player run because players won't rat each other out. Then he catches one team violating the rules whose own coaching staff is participating and using terms like bounty and kill shots and cart offs at a time when the league is being sued by hundreds of former players who claim their safety was jeopardized by the league... and they are lucky he opted to limit the penalties to those he did.

It's kind of pathetic that a numbskull like Vick gets it while so many other supposedly bright folks simply can't. Some in NO are atttempting the semantic defense. Bill and Robert were smart enough to know better than to waste time, energy and effort on it. They opted to man up and be accountable and take their lumps, learn from their mistake and just move on. Why anyone would wish they had behaved like a bunch of alternately defiant and whining self absorbed jerks like the Saints is beyond me. There is nothing to be gained in that effort beyond generating a small fortune in billable hours for the lawyers. And we all know how Robert feels about lawyers...

The Patriots make mistakes but they learn from them and they are too smart to waste their time, energy and effort fighting a losing battle when the right thing to do anyway is simply man up, be accountable, take your lumps and move on.

I don't dispute that the Pats violated a rule and should have been punished. What I will never agree to is that the punishment was fair and unbiased either in view of prior penalties meted to the 49ers and Broncos and subsequently to the Jets for tripping. Too bad Kraft felt that he was forced to support the biased POS for the good of the League rather than stand up for his team. I am still waiting for Goodell to finish his promised investigation of how the tapes were leaked during his possession. LOL I also find it amusing how the remaining tapes were destroyed after consultation with Rooney. Since the Pats were already convicted by the POS, why did they need to be destroyed if not for disclosing the how common the practice was and that Goodell would be forced to punish other teams especially the Jets.