Do you wish the Patriots challenged Goodell (like the Saints are doing)?

[Tobias Reiper]

To clean up his post I'll transcribe:

I like you already

Seriously though, why didn't Williams fight it? He has nothing left to lose, unless they ban him in the afterlife. (Does his religion allow for football with 21 virgins?)

Yes, there are jokes in this post, but there is a serious question too.

While Gregg Williams could fight his suspension, coaches don't have a union to back them up, plus, he is suspended indefinitely, which means, if he ever wants to get back into the NFL as a coach or in the front office, he's at the whim of Roger Goddell, as long as Goddell is commissioner. BTW, it really is the same with Sean Payton. While Goddell said he was suspended for a year, in reality he's suspended from a year and then has to apply for reinstatement, so he's basically in the same boat as Williams.

And there are obviously some other aspects in the background of all of this that we are never going to know - unless Vilma gets anywhere in court - that have to be influencing the whole mess. I mean, you wouldn't let the jailer redact your confession, would you?

 

[Tobias Reiper]

Anyone who listened to the Williams tape and didn't think he was urging his players to injure 49er players is a complete moron,

uh huh....

One time, my D. H.S. coach said to us (transcribed ) of the opposing QB:
" Mess that mother-loving female genitalia, then jump in the stands and have an intimate moment with his sister".

You know what's funny? That people like you keep saying the Saints went out to hurt the whiners because of that speech, yet, they didn't hurt anyone. Who got hurt in the Saints-whiners game? Of all people, it was Saints RB Pierre Thomas who had to leave the game with a concussion after a helmet to helmet hit (legal hit, BTW). The one 9er I remember coming out of the game was one who pulled a hammie. Smith, Gore, Davis, Crabtree, they all looked pretty healthy to me on that last drive, no?

Generally speaking, what's the first thing you need to charge someone with murder? A dead body. And the reality is, there are no dead bodies in the wake of the Saints. Where are all these key players the Saints were out to kill/hurt/maim/cart-off/etc? Oh, some people immediately yell "Kurt Warner! Brett Farve!", and sure Kurt got his clock cleaned on that one play, on a perfectly legal hit, a hit that just about any defensive player takes, yet, people focus on that one hit, call it "dirty" (pretty sure if Rodney Harrison had cleaned Peyton Manning's clock the same way ...) but not on what happened after that. There were at least 4 occasions in which a Saints defender had what would've been a clear legal shot at Warner, and just didn't take it.

As for Farve, you do know what they say about karma, right? Curious trivia, in 2009, Jared Allen, Vikings defender, was fined more money for illegal hits than the entire Saints defense ( I got banned from a Vikings forum for pointing that out). Vikings fans are still crying over the high-low Farve took that wasn't called, yet, they ignore that was the Vikings D specialty. Just go to youtube and look for the 2008 Vikings-Texans game, and the Great Viking Expedition for Matt Schaub's Knees.. I counted at least 2 high-lows, and one beautiful shot of Jared Allen diving at Schaub's knees from behind waaaay after he had thrown the ball. On a related note, there's actually a Sports Illustrated cover from the Saints-Vikings NFCCG that shows Ray Edwards diving for Drew Brees' knees. too bad for them Drew is an athlete, doesn't hold the ball for 10 seconds, and his coaches call formations to max-protect him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

uh huh....

One time, my D. H.S. coach said to us (transcribed ) of the opposing QB:
" Mess that mother-loving female genitalia, then jump in the stands and have an intimate moment with his sister".

You know what's funny? That people like you keep saying the Saints went out to hurt the whiners because of that speech, yet, they didn't hurt anyone. Who got hurt in the Saints-whiners game? Of all people, it was Saints RB Pierre Thomas who had to leave the game with a concussion after a helmet to helmet hit (legal hit, BTW). The one 9er I remember coming out of the game was one who pulled a hammie. Smith, Gore, Davis, Crabtree, they all looked pretty healthy to me on that last drive, no?

Generally speaking, what's the first thing you need to charge someone with murder? A dead body. And the reality is, there are no dead bodies in the wake of the Saints. Where are all these key players the Saints were out to kill/hurt/maim/cart-off/etc? Oh, some people immediately yell "Kurt Warner! Brett Farve!", and sure Kurt got his clock cleaned on that one play, on a perfectly legal hit, a hit that just about any defensive player takes, yet, people focus on that one hit, call it "dirty" (pretty sure if Rodney Harrison had cleaned Peyton Manning's clock the same way ...) but not on what happened after that. There were at least 4 occasions in which a Saints defender had what would've been a clear legal shot at Warner, and just didn't take it.

As for Farve, you do know what they say about karma, right? Curious trivia, in 2009, Jared Allen, Vikings defender, was fined more money for illegal hits than the entire Saints defense ( I got banned from a Vikings forum for pointing that out). Vikings fans are still crying over the high-low Farve took that wasn't called, yet, they ignore that was the Vikings D specialty. Just go to youtube and look for the 2008 Vikings-Texans game, and the Great Viking Expedition for Matt Schaub's Knees.. I counted at least 2 high-lows, and one beautiful shot of Jared Allen diving at Schaub's knees from behind waaaay after he had thrown the ball. On a related note, there's actually a Sports Illustrated cover from the Saints-Vikings NFCCG that shows Ray Edwards diving for Drew Brees' knees. too bad for them Drew is an athlete, doesn't hold the ball for 10 seconds, and his coaches call formations to max-protect him.

But you can get a murder conviction without a dead body. And we're not talking murder here. You can get a conviction on conspiracy to commit murder even if no one ever was...which seems to be the point that falls on deaf ears where NO fans are concerned. And bringing up other unrelated suspicious activities is just the classic conspiracy theorist muddy the waters baloney. Every offender isn't always caught, but that doesn't translate into those who were getting a pass.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

In retrospect yes. I wish the true nature and extent of the offense was hammered home to the public instead of letting the media speculate vaguely and editorialize.

Do it just to get the facts out. Even if the penalty reduction was nominal or on existent. The pats let a bunch of dumbasses sully their name.

Again, all in retrospect. Which begs the question, I wonder if their strategy would be the same if they could do it over.

Perhaps a more proactive approach would have eliminated the chance that "Walshgate" would not have "unexpectedly" happened the day before SB XLII.

 

[IllegalContact]

No.....the pats took their medicine as they should have and moved on.

The saints fight will only succeed in prolonging their pain.

 

[Ivan]

Not knocking your opinion, but I think anyone who was as surprised as you are about the tape, has never been in a DC locker room before.
That speech is typical GW. Its really nothing new. He's a vulgar, egotistic ass, and preaches animal brutality.
I remember on our SB run in 2009. The NFL intentionally sanitized his speeches for the America game film. Gw is a throw back, and constantly told players for kill the enemy, crush their bones, rip the QB head off.
IF you research the subject, you will find most players say , its harsh, but nothing they haven't heard from every DC they worked with.
Targeting ACL's, players with concussion, or surgery is not new in football. The Giants STC targeted Kyle Williams in audio after his 4 concussion, and stripped Kyle Williams on the game-deciding punt-return fumble, which was recovered by Thomas.
Im sure your DC has a list of all injured offensive players, and is preaching the same.
If you think not, you might be a little naive.

Most of us believe GW should be banned for life, but I doubt Roger will do that. And about the Hardgrove stuff, you really should research more. He was vindicated of that a while ago, by players there, and a voice expert. Its not him. Which made the NFL look silly again.

Pherein I like and respect you and like having you post here, but as i said Hargrove or not someone on that Saints defense was screaing that over and over, and I don't really care who it was, it was crap. Since I have never been in a pro football locker room and to be fair I am going on the words of Tim Ryan, who is Kirwans radio partner and was the strongest defender of the Saints out there when this broke. he spent years playing pro ball and did a 180 when he heard the Williams tape, saying he had never heard any coach talk that way and was disgusted by it, and that is one of their staunchest defenders.

And for the record, saying it wasn't Hargrove is what is really silly when being used a s a defense for the Saints, because one of them was screaming it, and it really doesn't matter which one because they are all on the same unit.. i don't think Vilma should get the same sentence as Payton because he is a player and won't get that lost year back, whereas Payton will, and the bottom line is that Payton could have stopped it, whereas Vilma would have been going against his DC and coach by trying to stop it, other than that i think Goodell was right and think the Saints screwed up horribly and deserve what they got, now they should just pay Brees what he deserves and try to get past this instead of continuing to fight a losing battle.

I like the Saints, was glad they won it all, and hope they get back on top, but i'm not going to excuse the effort to injure opposing players, regardless of who does it. Cheap shots and blatant attempts to injure have no place in any sport, and eliminating all of them and punishing offenders is the best route for all sports to take.

 

[Ivan]

uh huh....

You should have stopped there, I stand by my original comment, anyone who could listen to that tape and defend it is a complete moron.

As for your high school coach, if he speaks that way in front of kids he should be fired immediately, apparently he is a moron too.

 

[Tobias Reiper]

But you can get a murder conviction without a dead body. And we're not talking murder here. You can get a conviction on conspiracy to commit murder even if no one ever was...which seems to be the point that falls on deaf ears where NO fans are concerned. And bringing up other unrelated suspicious activities is just the classic conspiracy theorist muddy the waters baloney. Every offender isn't always caught, but that doesn't translate into those who were getting a pass.

Geez...
Yes, technically you can get a murder conviction without a dead body. But unless you are in North Korea, you cannot get a murder conviction when the alleged murder victim is standing next to you alive... which seems to be the point that falls on deaf ears where non-NO fans are concerned. And unlike a murder case where there is no body and someone is just not there, there is actually video of every game the Saints have played in... you guys are familiar with video tape, no?

And yes, you can get a conviction on conspiracy to commit murder, but we are not talking about a conspiracy here. According to the NFL the Saints actually committed the crimes and bounties were paid after the commission of of said crime -that's how "bounties" work, no? you get paid AFTER you do the deed. I mean, now you are going to tell me the NFL issued (combined) 30-game suspension, 12-15 million dollars in fines/lost wages, and just about ended the career of one player because they "talked about it"? No. The NFL was very clear in their allegations that bounties were paid for hurting players, even if the NFL is now crawfishing and saying things like "result of legal hit was the player didn't return to the game".

As for Cerullo and his involvement in this, that's no conspiracy theory. It was almost a certainty he was involved in this, now it has been confirmed and validated.

 

[Tobias Reiper]

You should have stopped there, I stand by my original comment, anyone who could listen to that tape and defend it is a complete moron.

As for your high school coach, if he speaks that way in front of kids he should be fired immediately, apparently he is a moron too.

.. so, never been in a locker room , I see Ever watched "12 Angry Men"?

 

[Deus Irae]

.. so, never been in a locker room , I see Ever watched "12 Angry Men"?

First rule of holes.....

 

[Ivan]

.. so, never been in a locker room , I see Ever watched "12 Angry Men"?

Actually i played sports All through school and for years after it, and i never ever made any attempt to injure another player, although it happened and it happened to me as well, and i have a number of breaks and torn ligaments to show for it. I had plenty of hard ass coaches who did all they could to fire us up but most never sank to the level you speak of when talking to us.

It's clear you will say anything and contort yourself into any position no matter how indefensible to try and to try and defend the saints pay to injure program, that's sad for you because it shows no conscience or values whatsoever, must suck to be that way, good luck with it, I'm sure it won't end well as it usually doesn't.

 

[Ivan]

.. so, never been in a locker room , I see Ever watched "12 Angry Men"?

Toby, do you like movies about gladiators?

 

[Ivan]

.. so, never been in a locker room , I see Ever watched "12 Angry Men"?

Toby, have you ever been in a turkish prison?

 

[Ivan]

.. so, never been in a locker room , I see Ever watched "12 Angry Men"?

Toby, have you ever seen a grown man naked?

 

[Deus Irae]

Appeals denied:

In news that should come as a surprise to no one, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has decided not to change the discipline of the four players he suspended in the league’s investigation into the Saints’ bounty program.

That means Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma will continue to be suspended for the entire year, Packers defensive end Anthony Hargrove will continue to be suspended for the first eight games of the season, Saints defensive end Will Smith will continue to be suspended for the first four games of the season and Browns linebacker Scott Fujita will continue to be suspended for the first three games of the season.

Goodell upholds suspensions for Vilma, Hargrove, Smith, Fujita | ProFootballTalk

 

[naF staP]

If the Patriots felt they could have presented some type of case, some type of evidence to at least change a little bit of the perception of what they did less harmful to the joe blow football public then yes I wish they would have made a little bit of noise.

But they either felt they couldn't change their image by presenting a case or they felt that they would have come away with even a more damaged image if they did present a case. Either way, they did what they felt was in the best interest of the organization. Took it like a man and never talked about it agian!

What the Saints players are doing makes them look like cry babies who are trying to bully the NFL into changing it's tune and trying to use the ol baffle the public with BS trick to hopefully look better in the eyes of the fans, which is really backfiring on them and not only making them look like dbags but reflects poorly on the Saints organization.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Appeals denied:



Goodell upholds suspensions for Vilma, Hargrove, Smith, Fujita | ProFootballTalk

And suspensions could be reduced.

Goodell urges Saints to meet with him, could reduce suspensions | ProFootballTalk

Of course that would probably require players to acknowledge Goodell's supreme authority and admit guilt.

Frankly I think Goodlel knows he's looking bad and doesn't want anyone remembering of his policies to increase fines for coaches with the termerity to put gambling interests ahead of player safety

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Appeals denied:



Goodell upholds suspensions for Vilma, Hargrove, Smith, Fujita | ProFootballTalk

Yeah. The only thing that would have been more surprising than Goodell overturning himself on appeal would have been Chief Justice Roberts voting to uphold Obamacare.....oops....I'd better rethink that one.

 

[ausbacker]

And suspensions could be reduced.

Goodell urges Saints to meet with him, could reduce suspensions | ProFootballTalk

Of course that would probably require players to acknowledge Goodell's supreme authority and admit guilt.

Frankly I think Goodlel knows he's looking bad and doesn't want anyone remembering of his policies to increase fines for coaches with the termerity to put gambling interests ahead of player safety

I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion.

Good point.

Everyone else might see just how poorly he has handled this whole situation. Goodell may have convinced himself otherwise.

Still, with the God of Football having spoken and long ago decreed suspensions, offering to lighten the penalty is clearly a concession, especially to guys who are openly thumbing their nose at him.