Do you wish the Patriots challenged Goodell (like the Saints are doing)?

[ausbacker]

Good point.

Everyone else might see just how poorly he has handled this whole situation. Goodell may have convinced himself otherwise.

Still, with the God of Football having spoken and long ago decreed suspensions, offering to lighten the penalty is clearly a concession, especially to guys who are openly thumbing their nose at him.

I'm not so sure. I happen to think Goodell is offering the players an opportunity using the reporting press as the pawns that they are. If the players decline he looks vindicated in regards to the suspensions and if they accept his offer he looks compassionate and reasonable.

Whatever the outcome, this is a PR battle to the death between both sides and not much else.

 

[pherein]

I'm not so sure. I happen to think Goodell is offering the players an opportunity using the reporting press as the pawns that they are. If the players decline he looks vindicated in regards to the suspensions and if they accept his offer he looks compassionate and reasonable.

Whatever the outcome, this is a PR battle to the death between both sides and not much else.

Im thinking the same, and its a pretty smart play by Goodell. I think he knew they would not meet with him. The other 3 players will file suit on thursday.

Smith, Fujita and Hargrove to file suit by Thursday
Next phase of bounty case will focus on claim Goodell wasn’t impartial | ProFootballTalk

Now that Commissioner Roger Goodell has ruled on the bounty appeals, the ball is back in the players’ court. And they plan to aim it directly at Commissioner Roger Goodell.

To little surprise, the players whose suspensions became official on Tuesday will file a lawsuit challenging the ruling. Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma already has. A source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that Saints defensive end Will Smith, Packers defensive end Anthony Hargrove, and Browns linebacker Scott Fujita will do the same by Thursday.

The effort will commence, as we previously have explained, with a StarCaps-style effort to block the suspensions until the litigation is resolved. The lawsuit itself will assert that Goodell lacked the requisite impartiality to serve as the arbitrator.

It’s one of the four ways that an arbitration award can be overturned in a court of law, where judges don’t substitute their own judgment but where judges ensure that the arbitrator acted fairly and properly. In this specific case, the players will point to Goodell’s public statements regarding the bounty case as proof that he made up his mind before assuming the role of judge and jury in the appeal process.

The lawsuit also will target the league’s failure to produce within 72 hours before the June 18 appeal hearing the exhibits to be introduced, based on the requirement in the CBA that all exhibits be exchanged within three days before the hearing.

Many will be inclined to fault the players and the NFLPA for taking this approach, arguing that the players should accept the process for which their union bargained under the CBA. But they bargained for a fair and impartial process; if they didn’t get it, they have every right to fight the suspensions on that basis.

If I were a player I would meet with Goodell, but publicly state under the condition that it be taped and admissible in any future court proceeding. See if he agrees to that.

 

[Joker]

The lawsuit itself will assert that Goodell lacked the requisite impartiality to serve as the arbitrator.

I await THIS outcome with keen anticipation...oh Lord...PLEASE rule in favor of the players...if this EVER comes true I will personally spearhead a grass roots movement in the six state New England region questioning Goodell's right to sit in absolute judgement of the New England Patriots, having been an EMPLOYEE of the New York Jets Football club previously.

I have always maintained he had no right to sit in judgement of the closest direct competitior of the team he previously worked for. There should have been an independent arbitrator assigned to the Cameragate incident. If this Saints players ploy works, the Spygate question becomes a slam dunk. I, for one, want that first round draft pick he robbed us of back.

 

[Gumby]

The lawsuit itself will assert that Goodell lacked the requisite impartiality to serve as the arbitrator.

I await THIS outcome with keen anticipation...oh Lord...PLEASE rule in favor of the players...if this EVER comes true I will personally spearhead a grass roots movement in the six state New England region questioning Goodell's right to sit in absolute judgement of the New England Patriots, having been an EMPLOYEE of the New York Jets Football club previously.

I have always maintained he had no right to sit in judgement of the closest direct competitior of the team he previously worked for. There should have been an independent arbitrator assigned to the Cameragate incident. If this Saints players ploy works, the Spygate question becomes a slam dunk. I, for one, want that first round draft pick he robbed us of back.

Like it; but doubt it could ever happen -even if he does get slammed on the current impartiality issue.

 

[pherein]

It's clear you will say anything and contort yourself into any position no matter how indefensible to try and to try and defend the saints pay to injure program, .

lol. well you have to kind of admit, if you are a saint fan, and just find issue with how this is playing out, and pretty easily how badly the evidence has been presented, people are always going to say this,lol. I mean if I was a Bills fan this wouldn't always be the 1st rebuttal used,lol. Just saying

 

[pherein]

Pherein I like and respect you and like having you post here, but as i said Hargrove or not someone on that Saints defense was screaing that over and over, and I don't really care who it was, it was crap. Since I have never been in a pro football locker room and to be fair I am going on the words of Tim Ryan, who is Kirwans radio partner and was the strongest defender of the Saints out there when this broke. he spent years playing pro ball and did a 180 when he heard the Williams tape, saying he had never heard any coach talk that way and was disgusted by it, and that is one of their staunchest defenders.

Yeah, I feel the same Ivan.
OH, I was just as shocked as everyone else. Im sure he was plenty shocked. I had heard GW was vulgar for years, but never understood how vulgar until that tape. No one is defending him. Im simply stating what the players said. What you, I or Ryan thinks doesn't mean to much. IF the players say its not far from what they hear every week in the locker room from GW and all the DC they worked for, I have to believe them, and that is what they are saying.
I think this kind of culture needs to be changed around the NFL. Im fine with swear words , and DC telling there guys to rip the QB's head off, but targeting wounded players has gotten WAY out of hand. Im completely against any player injury list.

And for the record, saying it wasn't Hargrove is what is really silly when being used a s a defense for the Saints, because one of them was screaming it, and it really doesn't matter which one because they are all on the same unit.

.
I agree with that, and Ayodele needs to be questioned about it. It looks like he said it.
Is that a PFP that you have in a playoff " give me my money, or a PFI, or is he just being all getto rappy because his contract was up in 2009. No idea.
ITs important because it shows the lack of preparation of the NFL put into this investigation. Your forgetting this is the evidence to suspend Hargrove.
Is Goodell now going to overturn Hargroves suspension, seeing he is right, and rightly suspend Ayodele? Doesn't that seem the right thing to do.
Your right someone needs to find out why it was said at all, but that doesn't excuse the NFL from presenting false evidence to the media as conclusive proof. Both things need to be investigated.

i don't think Vilma should get the same sentence as Payton because he is a player and won't get that lost year back, whereas Payton will, and the bottom line is that Payton could have stopped it, whereas Vilma would have been going against his DC and coach by trying to stop it, other than that i think Goodell was right and think the Saints screwed up horribly and deserve what they got, now they should just pay Brees what he deserves and try to get past this instead of continuing to fight a losing battle.

Well, Vilma was a captain, and he did say "Ill give $10,000 to anyone that gets to Farve".
SP shows no involvement, and sent memo's to stop PFP twice. Sense there is no proof of SP being aware of anything or lying about it, and at least I know, theres a good chance he had no idea,because he and GW didn't like each other since 2010. I wouldn't give SP a year suspension for negligence.
Vilma I'm on the fence about. I don't see why anyone would say that even if joking, and Vilma was completely aware of a PFP on defense as team captain, and working with GW.
I find Vilma's statement WAY more damming and indicative of a possible PFI than Ayodele's.
He says he is joking, and yes no one was paid, but Im wondering why he didn't at least talk to the NFL investigators knowing he said something really stupid that he should explain.

 

[SloMotion]

You should have stopped there, I stand by my original comment, anyone who could listen to that tape and defend it is a complete moron.

As for your high school coach, if he speaks that way in front of kids he should be fired immediately, apparently he is a moron too.

... not to get off the thread topic, but TR has a legitimate point ... anyone that has ever competed at a high level of contact sport and/or been in a locker room at that level, understands the Saints situation is Goodell acting in a politically correct manner to protect the league from future injury lawsuits brought forth by former players. There's been more then enough players, former & present, who have come forward to admit it's nothing more then pay-for-performance and Gregg Williams was just an 'over-the-top' motivator style of coach. It goes on in every locker room of every team in the NFL at some level.

... now, to get back on topic, I do wish the Patriots had done something to challenge Goodell, strictly from the viewpoint that, as an outside fan, more accurate reporting of the situation would have resulted and that Goodell may have learned back then to tread a little more lightly, accurately & appropriately when disciplining teams/coaches/players. As it was, I was not initially aware of facts like had the cameras been a few feet back they would not have been in violation ... it seems to me that Goodell learned in the Pats situation that it's best to conceal/destroy/withhold evidence and use the media to encourage a public rush to judgement.

Not that the Patriots were innocent or had a leg to stand on, just had they contested the matter a little more, Goodell may have been forced to use better judgement in the way he handles disciplinary problems within the league, most notably the Saints. I'm always thinking if Roger feels he does not have to follow legal protocols or common sense when handling situations like with the Pats or the Saints without fear of any opposition, what's to prevent him from going after any team in the league? For god's sake, it's only gonna' be a matter of time before he begins focusing on Detroit, :lol:.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

These players have chosen to be pawns in a backstory that underscores the disconnect between the NFLPA and the league about power that was traded for money that seemingly hasn't materialized. A strategy that for a time allows them to both to publicly unite as victims rather than face potentially being publicly labeled as total screw ups...

Just makes me prouder than ever of the way this organization has chosen to handle their business with the league, from the top down. Accountability isn't just paid lip service here, which is why it works here. And why teams like the Saints will never really be like the Patriots, no matter how much an admirer like pherien wants to believe they are. Robert Kraft certainly saw something in Goodell that resonated with him, leading him to champion him as a concensus candidate to replace the lawyer commissioner Tagliabue. Kind of like Tagliabue's predecessor, former Rams PR man turned GM, Roselle, who built the present day NFL model that resulted in league that is the envy of all others despite extensive ties to one team. Kind of makes Goodell's year as a JETS PR gopher, although I believe he grew up a Giants fan... pale in comparison. Really smart people get ahead because they can compartmentalize that stuff.

When Wilfork was fined and felt he was being misrepresented as a dirty player, he and Bianca (who bills less than Vilma's lawyer with the losing track record) attended his appeal and presented his case and got his fine reduced while also admitting that he had made some mistakes in letting his temper get the better of him and he was going to work on that. And he hasn't poked anyone in the eye since... When Rodney's name appeared on some HgH purveyors billing records he came clean rather than file suit in hopes of injunctively postponing any potential penalty until his playing days were over. When Bill got caught doing something the league clearly didn't want teams doing, even though lots of teams were, he and Robert apologized and paid their penalties and moved on. Even though a segment of their own fan base apparently never will.

Goodell is all about the carrot and the stick. Even though he takes it personally when players or owners or coaches attempt to put self interest above the best interests of the game or the league. I think he's a lot like Belichick in that he has the courage of his convictions and he doesn't loose sleep over public perceptions or opinions. He was elected to change a culture and clean up what was becoming a messy image and a potential failing business model as his predecessor and De's increasingly fell victim to the desire to protect or re-frame their personal legacies.

The owners just extended his term and doubled his salary, so they must be on board with his approach. The smart ones wanted an authority figure as commissioner who would not only grow the game and clean up it's image but one who would discipline anyone - including rogue owners or FO's or coaches as well as players - who threatened either. And that is exactly who and what they got. He takes the heat for the tough decisions allowing them to maintain civil relationships with their partners, employees and fans. That's why he makes the big bucks. Still trying to figure out why De does...because he's failed his constituents miserably.

Unswayed Goodell gives nary an inch to counterattacking players - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy

 

[JoeSixPat]

The lawsuit itself will assert that Goodell lacked the requisite impartiality to serve as the arbitrator.

I await THIS outcome with keen anticipation...oh Lord...PLEASE rule in favor of the players...

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that from a PR standpoint Goodell has handled this situation absolutely horribly.

He made broad damaging allegations and produced no evidence and when things began to look bad from a PR sense he hastily released "evidence" that fell short of supporting his claims.

The players saw this and pounced.

He handled the Patriots situation in a similar fashion. Had the timing been different (in the offseason) perhaps Kraft and Belichick might have pushed back - but with it coming early in the season, it may have been felt that helping Goodell sweep this under the rug and accepting the penalty in order to move on and leave it behind, using the outrage as fuel for a 16-0 season was considered the better alternative at the time.

In hindsight, knowing that fans and reporters would continue perpetuating false allegations (in the case of the Herald on the eve of the Super Bowl) I think they might reassess.

 

[Tobias Reiper]

Toby, have you ever seen a grown man naked?

Wow... "brilliant"... Really?

Obviously the 12 Angry Men reference went over your head, or you are just trying to be a jerk.

And, if you played any contact sport through school and never heard bravado-speak or over the top language in a locker room or on the field of play, or even attempted to "bring the wood" (oh, wait, that reference may go over your head as well and make you think of your favorite subject, disregard), you are simply lying or you played in some of those leagues where everyone gets a little trophy. No reason to continue with you. Have a nice day.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Geez...
Yes, technically you can get a murder conviction without a dead body. But unless you are in North Korea, you cannot get a murder conviction when the alleged murder victim is standing next to you alive... which seems to be the point that falls on deaf ears where non-NO fans are concerned. And unlike a murder case where there is no body and someone is just not there, there is actually video of every game the Saints have played in... you guys are familiar with video tape, no?

And yes, you can get a conviction on conspiracy to commit murder, but we are not talking about a conspiracy here. According to the NFL the Saints actually committed the crimes and bounties were paid after the commission of of said crime -that's how "bounties" work, no? you get paid AFTER you do the deed. I mean, now you are going to tell me the NFL issued (combined) 30-game suspension, 12-15 million dollars in fines/lost wages, and just about ended the career of one player because they "talked about it"? No. The NFL was very clear in their allegations that bounties were paid for hurting players, even if the NFL is now crawfishing and saying things like "result of legal hit was the player didn't return to the game".

As for Cerullo and his involvement in this, that's no conspiracy theory. It was almost a certainty he was involved in this, now it has been confirmed and validated.

We are talking about a conspiracy, that's what you don't get. That a program existed to reward players and coaches as well as players were involved in running it and funding it and it offered payment for knocking opposing players out of games. Doesn't matter whether any were actually knocked out or rewarded. Doesn't even matter whether any money actually changed hands as the promise of it suffices.

And btw knowing you and pherein are sticklers for statements as if fact, turns out Cerullo didn't get a fake ring so I guess that invalidates whatever Vilma alleges about him... And if it turns out he's a little unstable and erratic, well he was a Saint... Same could be said for Williams, Payton and his sometime felon pal Ornstein as well as Loomis (not to mention Benson and his heir apparent daughter).

Vilma also alleges that Cerullo received a Super Bowl ring with fake diamonds, and that he vowed revenge on the team — and specifically on assistant head coach/linebackers coach Joe Vitt.

A league source with knowledge of the situation contends that Cerullo didn’t receive a Super Bowl ring containing fake diamonds. Another source described Cerullo as “a little unstable and erratic at times,” and that Cerullo “definitely” was unhappy with the team following his termination.

Cerullo currently serves as director of football operations at Princeton.

Most folks are bitter after a termination. Florio seems to think Cerullo should come out and defend himself...LOL More likely when the dust settles he may have grounds to file a suit or two of his own. Gotta love how guys claiming they have been defamed and dragged through the mud can't resist retaliating by doing the same thing to anyone perceived as a threat to them...


Mike Cerullo maintains a low profile | ProFootballTalk

 

[Ivan]

Wow... "brilliant"... Really?

Obviously the 12 Angry Men reference went over your head, or you are just trying to be a jerk.

And, if you played any contact sport through school and never heard bravado-speak or over the top language in a locker room or on the field of play, or even attempted to "bring the wood" (oh, wait, that reference may go over your head as well and make you think of your favorite subject, disregard), you are simply lying or you played in some of those leagues where everyone gets a little trophy. No reason to continue with you. Have a nice day.

You're asking me if I'm trying to be a jerk, lmao, after your previous post?


Your 12 angry men analogy is idiotic, and the idea that every coach speaks the way Williams did is equally idiotic. You're desperate and grasping at any straw no matter how small to try and defend the indefensible, you should simply give it up.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Yeah, I feel the same Ivan.
OH, I was just as shocked as everyone else. Im sure he was plenty shocked. I had heard GW was vulgar for years, but never understood how vulgar until that tape. No one is defending him. Im simply stating what the players said. What you, I or Ryan thinks doesn't mean to much. IF the players say its not far from what they hear every week in the locker room from GW and all the DC they worked for, I have to believe them, and that is what they are saying.
I think this kind of culture needs to be changed around the NFL. Im fine with swear words , and DC telling there guys to rip the QB's head off, but targeting wounded players has gotten WAY out of hand. Im completely against any player injury list.

.
I agree with that, and Ayodele needs to be questioned about it. It looks like he said it.
Is that a PFP that you have in a playoff " give me my money, or a PFI, or is he just being all getto rappy because his contract was up in 2009. No idea.
ITs important because it shows the lack of preparation of the NFL put into this investigation. Your forgetting this is the evidence to suspend Hargrove.
Is Goodell now going to overturn Hargroves suspension, seeing he is right, and rightly suspend Ayodele? Doesn't that seem the right thing to do.
Your right someone needs to find out why it was said at all, but that doesn't excuse the NFL from presenting false evidence to the media as conclusive proof. Both things need to be investigated.



Well, Vilma was a captain, and he did say "Ill give $10,000 to anyone that gets to Farve".
SP shows no involvement, and sent memo's to stop PFP twice. Sense there is no proof of SP being aware of anything or lying about it, and at least I know, theres a good chance he had no idea,because he and GW didn't like each other since 2010. I wouldn't give SP a year suspension for negligence.
Vilma I'm on the fence about. I don't see why anyone would say that even if joking, and Vilma was completely aware of a PFP on defense as team captain, and working with GW.
I find Vilma's statement WAY more damming and indicative of a possible PFI than Ayodele's.
He says he is joking, and yes no one was paid, but Im wondering why he didn't at least talk to the NFL investigators knowing he said something really stupid that he should explain.

The "give me my money" comment is one many players with contracts in play have uttered numerous times in the history of the modern NFL

If that's proof of a bounty system then Goodell has a huge mess on his hands.

 

[Tobias Reiper]

You're asking me if I'm trying to be a jerk, lmao, after your previous post?


Your 12 angry men analogy is idiotic, and the idea that every coach speaks the way Williams did is equally idiotic. You're desperate and grasping at any straw no matter how small to try and defend the indefensible, you should simply give it up.

Wow... o...k... nothing else to say

 

[Tobias Reiper]

And btw knowing you and pherein are sticklers for statements as if fact, turns out Cerullo didn't get a fake ring so I guess that invalidates whatever Vilma alleges about him... And if it turns out he's a little unstable and erratic, well he was a Saint... Same could be said for Williams, Payton and his sometime felon pal Ornstein as well as Loomis (not to mention Benson and his heir apparent daughter).

Yeah, another "anonymous source"... I take it you saw the ring, right?

ok... well, thanks for having me. Good luck this coming season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Thank you Deus for mentioning the Ignore List

 

[Joker]

These players have chosen to be pawns in a backstory that underscores the disconnect between the NFLPA and the league about power that was traded for money that seemingly hasn't materialized. A strategy that for a time allows them to both to publicly unite as victims rather than face potentially being publicly labeled as total screw ups...

Just makes me prouder than ever of the way this organization has chosen to handle their business with the league, from the top down. Accountability isn't just paid lip service here, which is why it works here. And why teams like the Saints will never really be like the Patriots, no matter how much an admirer like pherien wants to believe they are. Robert Kraft certainly saw something in Goodell that resonated with him, leading him to champion him as a concensus...brilliant...don't use polysyllabic words you do NOT know how to spell candidate to replace the lawyer commissioner Tagliabue.--- Consensus candidate?He got 15 votes to Levy's 13 on the first ballot. They had to take 4 more until a consensus was reached, even though Oakland Al abstained (guess he missed the consensus part).

"Roger Goodell's election as NFL commissioner never was in serious peril Tuesday, but several people familiar with the owners' voting said late Tuesday night and today that the race was close.

According to several sources, Goodell got 15 votes on the first ballot that the owners took Tuesday in Northbrook, Ill., while Washington attorney Gregg Levy got 13 votes. At that point, outgoing commissioner Paul Tagliabue and the search committee dropped the other three finalists from the ballot, even though the owners had resolved Monday to keep all five candidates under consideration for at least three ballots.

The second and third ballots failed to decide the competition but then Goodell got 21 votes (to 10 for Levy) on the fourth ballot, sources said. That left Goodell only one vote shy of the 22 needed for election, and the outcome was essentially sealed. On the fifth ballot, Goodell got 23 votes and Levy received eight (with Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis abstaining), then the owners made the vote unanimous by acclamation."


.... Kind of like Tagliabue's predecessor, former Rams PR man turned GM, Roselle, who built the present day NFL model that resulted in league that is the envy of all others despite extensive ties to one team. Kind of makes Goodell's year as a JETS PR gopher, although I believe he grew up a Giants fan... pale in comparison.Yes. it does and THAT is the point. It's EASY to see why Rozelle was elected commissioner...he started off in PR and became the Rams general manager...REAL proven football business knowledge.You want to hold this against him to buttress your stance on Goodell, as if being a successful NFL GM is somehow worse than being a gopher who gets a recommendation from Leon Hess to work at an entry level in the NFL offices..Really smart people get ahead because they can compartmentalize that stuff.----right...this is such a naive statement I won't even begin to tear it to pieces. Suffice it to say that people get ahead by any and all means at their disposal...this isn't an exclusive "smart people only" club the NFL is running.

When Wilfork was fined and felt he was being misrepresented as a dirty player, he and Bianca (who bills less than Vilma's lawyer with the losing track record) attended his appeal and presented his case and got his fine reduced while also admitting that he had made some mistakes in letting his temper get the better of him and he was going to work on that. And he hasn't poked anyone in the eye since... When Rodney's name appeared on some HgH purveyors billing records he came clean rather than file suit in hopes of injunctively postponing any potential penalty until his playing days were over. When Bill got caught doing something the league clearly didn't want teams doing, even though lots of teams were, he and Robert apologized and paid their penalties and moved on. Even though a segment of their own fan base apparently never will...This paragraph is so absurd I was looking for a signature like "Albert Camus" or "MoSartreRocks".

Goodell is all about the carrot and the stick. Even though he takes it personally when players or owners or coaches attempt to put self interest above the best interests of the game or the league. I think he's a lot like Belichick in that he has the courage of his convictions and he doesn't loose....lose...it's lose...any intelligent person NEVER makes this simple spelling error simply because it's properly learned by the end of 2nd grade.sleep over public perceptions or opinions. He was elected to change a culture and clean up what was becoming a messy image and a potential failing business model as his predecessor and De's increasingly fell victim to the desire to protect or re-frame their personal legacies. this is your OPINION...not fact...as you so often present yourself. Preface it if you're going to state ideas like this.

The owners just extended his term and doubled his salary, so they must be on board with his approach. The smart ones wanted an authority figure as commissioner who would not only grow the game and clean up it's image but one who would discipline anyone - including rogue owners or FO's or coaches as well as players - who threatened either. And that is exactly who and what they got.yeah..they got Cyrano DeBergerac..most fans have shirts that represent their team's colors...what color is the Goodell shirt and pom poms? He takes the heat for the tough decisions allowing them to maintain civil relationships with their partners, employees and fans. hopefully you are NOT insinuating he has a civil relationship with the fans himself...there isn't enough band width for the You Tubes of mocking public derision aimed at Goodell since the start of his tenure 5 years ago... That's why he makes the big bucks. Still trying to figure out why De does...because he's failed his constituents miserably.again...opinion, not F-A-C-T...one thing for sure, it's fortunate for all of us Americans that totalitarianism has been dealt a death blow in other countries around the world...Happy July 4th and happy birthday America...still a land where any man's voice can be heard.

Unswayed Goodell gives nary an inch to counterattacking players - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy

Goodell has publicly claimed he was a Ravens fan, not a Giants fan, growing up. I HAVE Meadowlands security reports from Jet games back when Roger was in high school.The location cited in these reports is Senator Goodell's box. Spin that into MoGoodellPlatitudes.

 

[Why?PJ]

It amazes me at the shortsightedness of people. At this very moment there are people who are planning to end all football in the USA, and the saints scandal is the final straw that broke the camels back. Whether or not it was true doesn't matter anymore. If you like football, it is time to make the NFL look good and stop acting like children.

Oh and this.
"Goodell wrote in part: "Throughout this entire process, including your appeals, and despite repeated invitations and encouragement to do so, none of you has offered any evidence that would warrant reconsideration of your suspensions. Instead, you elected not to participate meaningfully in the appeal process ..."

"Although you claimed to have been 'wrongfully accused with insufficient evidence,' your lawyers elected not to ask a single question of the principal investigators, both of whom were present at the hearing (as your lawyers had requested); you elected not to testify or to make any substantive statement, written or oral, in support of your appeal; you elected not to call a single witness to support your appeal; and you elected not to introduce a single exhibit addressing the merits of your appeal. Instead, your lawyers raised a series of jurisdictional and procedural objections that generally ignore the CBA, in particular its provisions governing 'conduct detrimental' determinations ..."

I think the 4 players suing the NFL should be banned for life simply for suing the NFL, aka deciding they are more important that the entire institution that has been going on since well before any of them were born.

I don't care if you think the evidence the NFL has publicly released is flimsy, frankly the NFL should not have released anything publicly at all.

I would have been for the NFL ordering benson to sell the franchise, and for the NFL at the least making the Saints start out from scratch with regards to players and coaches, like a brand new expansion team, except making it against the rules for the saints to employ anyone they have ever employed before. That is the only way to make the Saints organization look above board, with 2 massive scandals in just a few years.

The saints screwed up big time. They will be the poster child for all the ex NFL players lawsuits, which could easily end the nfl. They will be used as the poster child for every moron liberal who thinks football is too dangerous to allow to continue, and that is already happening.

I still think the NFL and its owners need to establish a research facility to figure this crap out and they need to pledge at least a few hundred million to it every single year. That at least would make them look like they care. They also should establish a separate pool of money for players health care, and the NFL should fully insure every single person that has played in the NFL for life,especially former players who earned less in their entire career than some current players earn in a year.

And the saints players need to get over themselves. How good will their reputation be if they are used as weapons to end football in the USA altogether?

 

[pherein]

It amazes me at the shortsightedness of people. At this very moment there are people who are planning to end all football in the USA, and the saints scandal is the final straw that broke the camels back. Whether or not it was true doesn't matter anymore. If you like football, it is time to make the NFL look good and stop acting like children.

Well..hmm..never quite looked at it that way. Its certainly a new and fresh prospective, Ill give you that.

But, don't forget I warned everyone on this site that if the Saints ever won a SB the world would end.
If we end football do we get in Canton ?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It amazes me that people with minimal comprehension skills attack spelling and punctuation as well as resorting to thinly veiled personal attacks when their own nonsensical blathering routinely runs in the tin foil range. Took the league owners 23 ballots to elect HOF Commissioner Pete Rozelle, and there were only a dozen of them back then... His background was public relations and marketing. Goodell's was marketing the league for decades working for Rozelle and Tagliabue. The Rams didn't win a lot on Pete's brief watch, but they did turn their finances around and set attendance marks. That was what finally convinced owners to elect him. Marketing savvy. Would have been difficult for Goodell to grow up a Ravens fan since they didn't exist until 1996...when he was 37. He apparently grew up as a Redskins fan since while his father was in Congress they lived in DC.

FWIW it only took several months and two selection committees and 12 ballots for the 28 owners in 1989 to agree on Tagliabue... The early favorite was the Saints President who came within 3 votes of election at one point. So a 5th ballot election represents a pretty significant consensus when it comes to electing NFL Commissioners...

Goodell remained the favorite even through a four-month search conducted by a committee headed by Rooney and Carolina's Jerry Richardson. There was no question that he was the choice of the league's most important owners all along, but none declared any allegiance until the finale.

"I said from the beginning that we were going to look for the man to lead us," Rooney said he told the owners during the voting Wednesday afternoon. "I said that when we finished, I had no doubt that that was Roger Goodell."

New England's Robert Kraft, one of the most influential of the newest owners, said: "Roger got his MBA from Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue. That's not a bad education."

But what does Kraft know compared to the tin foil brigade.