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Do you Realize we SHOULD be Undefeated

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by carolinatony, Nov 11, 2012.

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  1. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

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    90% of the guys I work with are fans of other teams and they all tell me the same thing....

    As long as you have Brady; you will make the playoffs and

    IF you had a average defense nobody would beat you.

    I can't understand how this defense has been so bad the last 4/5 years.

    We won our SB's with defense and had no all pro's.
    Was it Crennel ?


    These players we drafted were good in collage.
  2. resdubwhite

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    shoulda, woulda, coulda.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  3. CityOfChampions

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    We should be but we aren't. :(
  4. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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  5. Big-T

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    Could have been 9-0
    Could have been 3-6

    Just how the league goes.
  6. Calciumee

    Calciumee PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  7. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots have had a complimentary (average) defense for at least 3 years now.
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who cares?

    I'll settle for undefeated in the post-season. :D
  9. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    And I SHOULD be rich if only I knew the winning powerball numbers a day in advance :bricks: :bricks:
  10. Juddy

    Juddy Rookie

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    No such thing as should we didn't make enough plays to be anything better than 6-3.
  11. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    While is it a fair point to consider that all of our loses were as tight as a drum, the NFL is a game of inches/one additional play. The Patriots of the past were a hair from having poorer records. Yet that is the reality for a lot of teams in the NFL. IMO our 6-3 record is fair representation of what the Patriots are: A team with enough horses to win most every Sunday but lacking enough horses to feel comfortable they will win most every Sunday.

    IF the defense can make just a marginal improvement, I like our chances (far from certain to make the SB but the chances will be better than almost every team in the AFC). IF they don't our chances are still relatively decent but our room for error becomes sooooo much smaller.
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We had linebackers and a SS that were extremely strong in that soft area. Now we have 3 good linebackers and a safety that are not strong on covering in that soft area ... that's how I see it.
  13. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Makes me think of the 07 season and how just 1 loss in the regular season probably would have made the chances of another SB victory greater. :bricks:
  14. Uncle Rico

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  15. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

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    You guys miss my point

    OUR DEFENSE STINKS
  16. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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  17. Fball

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    I got it. It's the opposite of the Pats teams that won Superbowls.

    They won't get very far in the playoffs without some breaks.
  18. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Rookie

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    LOL, the Patriots SHOULD have lost today. I can give you ten reasons why, but check out the final play of the game. For some reason, the Bills don't want to use their best play (CJ Spiller) that much. Look at this picture. Pay attention to where Spiller is on the 12 yard-line. Had you beat right there alone.

    [​IMG]
  19. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the defense was better then the offense would probably be worse.


    The salary cap, free agency and initial draft position all have a huge impact on what a team is able to do with rosters. On top of that roster and personnel decisions are not automatic no-brainers, not even close to say, expecting a pro basketball player to be able to shoot a free throw.


    No matter how good your front office is, no matter what team it is, free agent and draft decisions are somewhat of a crap shoot; it's not as if it's the equivalent of asking a professional basketball player to shoot a free throw.


    Every single NFL team has areas of weakness. While I wish that every personnel decision was perfect, that's just not a realistic expectation of this, or any other team in today's NFL.



    I absolutely agree with your sentiment that it would be great if the defense was at least average. I just think that in today's NFL it is really, really, difficult to be elite on one side of the ball and at the same time just be at least average on the other side of the ball.


    It's frustrating, yes; but that's simply the way the NFL is right now.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  20. Gumby

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    I dont disagree with you completely in your first statement (hell 150 penalty yds alone was a game chgr); but with all the TOs burned due to injuries and only 23s left; Fitz wasn't looking in the middle of the field short of the goal line. He wanted 3 chances not just 1.
  21. OMGWTFJUDD

    OMGWTFJUDD Rookie

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    I'm still pinning my hopes on the team focusing on getting it right at the pointy end of the season.

    You can play and win scrappy in the normal season, but eventually you need to start getting your **** together and get some momentum going into the post season.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  22. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Rookie

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    First of all, look at the picture. You should know what Spiller is capable of in space. That's probably 90% TD material set up right there. And, on the odd chance he doesn't make it, there is plenty of time to spike the ball and have a couple of shots in the endzone from VERY close...that's the worst case scenario.

    Also, I'm a Bills fan, so I'll give you a little insight that perhaps you did not know. That INT was intended for TJ Graham, a rookie third round pick. I follow the Bills closely. Just this week, Chan Gailey was talking about Graham...he talked about how he's still raw and doesn't know what he's looking at a lot of time...about how he's not able to adjust to defense and things like that.

    So, 'lo and behold, they go to him in THAT situation and there is a miscommunication. Fitzpatrick thought that Graham was going to cut AHEAD of the defender. He didn't. The pass was intercepted as a result.

    And yeah, Donald Jones was hurt on that drive costing the Bills a time out. What that also did was likely put TJ Graham in Donald Jones' shoes on that particular play, when the Bills had a great chance to win.
  23. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Regarding your caption: First, Fitz is already in his throwing motion. The wait time to identify and make the throw you think is the best option equals an unknown as to what would have happened -- not to mention the defense will be reacting to some degree to where the QB is looking. Second, every QB in the league sometimes has guys that are open and he doesn't hit them. There are more factors going into a pass than player X is open. Third: the receiver does not appear to have a high probability of making it close to the endzone. The clock probably runs to 15 seconds (or further) if he makes that throw. That almost guarantees the Bills are now forced to make every throw into the endzone as well as limits the amount of chances they can thor winto the endzone (due to the clock). Not an optimum play given the situation.

    As to the Patriots "should" have lost. That is certainly your right to make that determination. But there is not only a practical insignificance to that argument (they won) but the logic behind your argument uses factor A and factor B yet disregards a bunch of other factors.
  24. ScottieC

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    Patriots are undefeated in games we never played and games we lost by a close margin. :cool:
  25. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    I don't entirely disagree, however, the middle of the field is no longer defended by fear (at least not as much). The Patriots victory over the Rams in 01 would probably not occur today given the new rules/reality of the NFL. Receivers don't have to fear going over the middle like they used to -- meaning the middle of the field, I suspect, is paying dividends across the league unlike it used to.
  26. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Rookie

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    First of all, did you read the OP? It was saying that the Patriots SHOULD be undefeated, and I was responding to that.

    Secondly, if you want to talk about "factor A and B," did you watch the game? The Patriots were outperformed and got a bunch of breaks, such as 10 Bills penalties for 119 yards in the first half alone, some of which were complete bull****. Completely. 3 pass interference calls in the endzone, I believe, the biggest of which was beyond any shred of catchability...WAY out of the back of the endzone. They called pass interference on the Bills (instead of illegal contact) on a play where it was a completely different receiver thrown to. Illegal hands to the face that didn't happen. Since when is running out of bounds and coming back in on a kickoff "unsportsmanlike?Dan Fouts was even talking about how the Bills got jobbed on several occasions...but we aren't talking about that. You have sure-fire dropped interceptions and stuff like that...

    On this particular play, which I've watched numerous times, that would be a TD if thrown to Spiller. I'd just about guarantee you that. Even if it wasn't, the Bills would have at least two more shots after that, probably more...probably three. That play would have taken them inside the 5 yardline at the very least.

    Whatever, enjoy your win...but you escaped with it.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  27. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    So let me get this straight, space equals the Patriots having 8 or 9 players behind you (situated between the 10 yard line and halfway into the goal area) specifically defending against the TD (as they should), and that equals a 90% chance for a TD? With 26 seconds to go and no timeouts, the Bills should throw the ball 3 yards beyond the LOS and still 12 yards from the endzone in front of 80% of a Patriot's defense that is concentrated in a short amount of field? I know some coaches and QBs would consider that a poor choice of use for the 10+ of your remaining 26 seconds but I admire you for going your own way on it......
  28. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    First of all, relax. I don't care whether you don't like my opinion and you shouldn't get that worked up over mine. You're on a Patriot's board - get over yourself.

    Second, I'm sorry, how many of these penalties were illegitimate? How many of them would have caused the Patriots to have to punt given the Bills ability to stop the Patriots otherwise? How many in the second half for the Bills that kept you from scoring enough points to win? BTW, how may penalties should have been called that weren't? How many of the Patriots penalties were not legitimate? How many plays did the Patriots not make that were TB just missing an open guy or the receiver just dropping it? How many plays were caused by the Bills and the Patriots covering one area/forcing it to a less historically successful other? How many plays did not succeeded because of play calling for the Bills and the Patriots? How many did not succeed even with the right play call? How many uncategorized unforced errors? How many simple 'luck of the bounce' plays?

    How about I stop there and just look forward to your report on the above variables that will be inserted into the NFL's standardized 'who really should have won the game' formula....
  29. Keyser Söze

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    We're extremely fortunate to be 6-3. I'll take it.
  30. Uncle Meat

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