Do you buy into the narrative of Joe Montana's "unblemished Super Bowl record" vs. Brady?

[meatface]

are you expecting anyone here to agree with the narrative?

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

All hail the Bills, the greatest dynasty of the cap era, they haven't lost a playoff game since 1999!

 

[rochrist]

Definitely respected and admired what Montana did with his career. I'm not gonna knock or try to belittle the guy cuz he was a great, great pro. Think it's pretty hard to change a fans mind that hold him to the highest of standards as a goat.

For me though, it's Brady all the way, the stats for both regular and postseason speak for themselves. Both did some amazing things in those SuperBowls but I definitely think Brady did more with less ending the argument, not to mention he looks like he has 4-5 years left. That td to interception stat really freaks me out how good it is btw.

Be cautious about pure stats. Brady plays in a completely different league than Montana did. Teams were allowed to play defense back then and they did. There's a reason TB's numbers spiked after 2006.

 

[rochrist]

What Brady and Bill have done is simply too awsome to put into words.

The era. Joe played on all star teams that were much easier to keep together compared to todays game.

Brady has had moving parts every second of his career. He's adjusted and adapted game to game. From no names to Moss and Welker, to Gronk and Hernandez and on. The injuries. The distractions. The grind. The adversity.


Someday, someone a lot smarter than me will put it into more elegantly but hes the ****in goat.

The flip side of that is that he was playing against teams who also didn't labor under the salary cap.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I don't get why people are trying to quantify losing in playoff rounds. Just stop. I don't care about who went to more championship games or super bowls. I care about rings. They are tied in the category.

I'm sorry, you must have misread the title of this thread...

The question of this thread: Is Montana better for 4-0 and his stats or Brady for 4-2. The difference in games played must be addressed, that is how debate works...

So again, making it to 6 Super Bowls is more impressive than 4. How much more impressive? 2 Div Championship games more impressive.

Stop mistaking facts for opinions...

 

[RobertWeathers]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Yes it does

 

[ChessToCheckers]

For me, Brady is the GOAT hands down! Montana would struggle in today's game with today's salary-cap limited teams. Brady has done way more with less and he's not finished.

 

[RobertWeathers]

For me, Brady is the GOAT hands down! Montana would struggle in today's game with today's salary-cap limited teams. Brady has done way more with less and he's not finished.

So your position is Montana was fundamentally a sub-standard QB and the only reason he won 117+ games, 16--7 in the playoffs and 4 SBs is because he had elite talent surrounding him?

 

[archstanton543]

No. Next question.

 

[XLIX]

I don't buy it because when Montana played, the AFC was atrocious. The NFCCG was the real Super Bowl and Montana lost a few of those.

I also don't like the idea that it is somehow more noble to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs than in the final round of the playoffs.

 

[Danger Zone]

Please.. its like saying Edelman is the better quarterback than Brady because he has a perfect passing record.

And yes, Super Bowl losses >> Playoff losses

 

[Ring 6]

So your position is Montana was fundamentally a sub-standard QB and the only reason he won 117+ games, 16--7 in the playoffs and 4 SBs is because he had elite talent surrounding him?

I'm sure I will get crap for this, but really if you think about Brady and Montana, they became what they became because of coaching. Based on draft status, physique and college play, both could have washed out as backups without ever getting a chance.
Bill Walsh ran an offense that was ahead of its time, and ahead of the defenses of the time. Bill walsh taught Montana to be the smartest QB in the league, because he was running the smartest offense.
When Brady took over as the starter here, who was his QB coach? Bill Belichick. They met for hours every day watching film, with BB teaching Brady everything he could absorb.
Now, both of those QBs get credit for having the talent to use that knowledge and the intelligence to absorb it, and the work ethic to be great, but without Walsh and Belichick both could have ended up as unknown backups who bounced around, and maybe never got the shot.

 

[skinnydog]

This is true. That's why Brady is number one for me. Greatest comeback in a Super Bowl. Although the only thing not true in your statement was 4th quarter drives in both losses. It was only in the 1st loss

Oops, you're right about the 2012 Super Bowl.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm sure I will get crap for this, but really if you think about Brady and Montana, they became what they became because of coaching. Based on draft status, physique and college play, both could have washed out as backups without ever getting a chance.
Bill Walsh ran an offense that was ahead of its time, and ahead of the defenses of the time. Bill walsh taught Montana to be the smartest QB in the league, because he was running the smartest offense.
When Brady took over as the starter here, who was his QB coach? Bill Belichick. They met for hours every day watching film, with BB teaching Brady everything he could absorb.
Now, both of those QBs get credit for having the talent to use that knowledge and the intelligence to absorb it, and the work ethic to be great, but without Walsh and Belichick both could have ended up as unknown backups who bounced around, and maybe never got the shot.

I won't give you crap at all. I think you are 100% spot on. Under a crappy coach they might have had some success but no way in hell would they accomplish what they did without Walsh and BB.

I don't think its a secret that every very good to HoF Qb had a good coach working with him before they hit stardom.

In addition to what you say, Walsh and BB were/are both elite talent evaluators and knew how to nurture and maximize it.

Whatever they saw out of Montana and Brady coming out of college and in their first TC, they knew how to put them on a path to success.

They also knew what talent to surround them with that would lead to the the team and their success.

 

[BobDigital]

Brady > Montana but you don't need to rip on Montana to illustrate it. Montana is #2 all time and very clutch.

Now I will do something more useful/interesting and give you reasons why Staubach is #3 all time

#1 Staubach started his career late cause he was too busy being a war hero! Even with his short career he racked up a resume that stacks up well to near anyone you can think of. To put it another way. If you were to compare Steve Young started his career around a similar age and didn't manage half of what Staubach did.

#2 Staubach played against the best competition in football history. Staubach was on a good Dallas team but went against all time powerhouse teams. 72' 73' Dolphins. 74' - 79' Steelers. Also Washington and Oakland had very good teams at times during this run as did Minnasota. Basically Staubach had very few years when his team was not blocked by a truly all time team and even when not the case he faced some very hard teams. With all that he found time to go 2-2 in superbowls.

#3 playoff performance. Roger in his career was 13-7 (winning near 2-1 in the playoffs) with a 76 QB Rating (high in the playoffs for his day). It looks even better when you notice he had 2 horrible loses which he threw 0 TD 7 Ints (though no one wants to suck that bad but good to get them out of the way all at once IMO). Take out those 2 games and Roger has a 24 TD 12 Int ratio. Pretty insane.

#4 Who did he play and beat/lose to in the big one? He beat the 71 Dolphins. A team that would go 17-0 next year and had an amazing game. Though his team on a whole played well to he was perfect going 12/19 119 yards 2 TD 0 Ints against one of the all time great Ds.

His first lost was to Pitt 21-17. He faced a great team and kept it close most the game till Pitt blew it open going up 21-10. He managed to score 7 late in the 4th to bring it 21-17. He got the ball back with 1:22 left needing a TD to win. He marched down the field well at first but just ran out of time and took a risk throwing a pass on 3rd and 10 that was intercepted. Brady fans know how much it sucks to need a TD with little time left. Maybe Brady could have done it. Lost to a great team almost making a great come back run.

His next win was against a strong Denver team that while not all time beat Pit and Oakland. Pretty legit. He had another clean game going 17/25 183 1 TD 0 Int.

His next loss was the most gut wrenching one cause he deserved the win and to 3-1. Vs a great Steelers team they lost 35-31. Roger kept it close most of the game and it was 17-21 going into the 4th. at 12:20 in that game Dallas punted and Roger did not get the ball back till it was 17-35 (TD, fumbled return, TD). With 6:51 left Roger got down the field quickly running and passing to score a TD. 2:59 left needing a miracle they onside kick and get it. Roger gets them down field again to score a TD with only 26 seconds left to make it 35-31. The next onside kick fails so Dallas gets no other shot.

Again against a great D the 7 minutes wasn't enough to get the 3 TDs needed. But he did all he could given the situation to make it possible.

 

[IllegalContact]

they both have 4 SB wins.....tie

brady has 2 SB losses where montana has 2 years he didn't get to the SB

game over, brady wins.......NEXT!

 

[Ring 6]

I won't give you crap at all. I think you are 100% spot on. Under a crappy coach they might have had some success but no way in hell would they accomplish what they did without Walsh and BB.

I don't think its a secret that every very good to HoF Qb had a good coach working with him before they hit stardom.

In addition to what you say, Walsh and BB were/are both elite talent evaluators and knew how to nurture and maximize it.

Whatever they saw out of Montana and Brady coming out of college and in their first TC, they knew how to put them on a path to success.

They also knew what talent to surround them with that would lead to the the team and their success.

I was looking at it more from the standpoint of training, and teaching, but those are valid points as well.

 

[fightingirish595]

I'm sure I will get crap for this, but really if you think about Brady and Montana, they became what they became because of coaching. Based on draft status, physique and college play, both could have washed out as backups without ever getting a chance.
Bill Walsh ran an offense that was ahead of its time, and ahead of the defenses of the time. Bill walsh taught Montana to be the smartest QB in the league, because he was running the smartest offense.
When Brady took over as the starter here, who was his QB coach? Bill Belichick. They met for hours every day watching film, with BB teaching Brady everything he could absorb.
Now, both of those QBs get credit for having the talent to use that knowledge and the intelligence to absorb it, and the work ethic to be great, but without Walsh and Belichick both could have ended up as unknown backups who bounced around, and maybe never got the shot.

That's definitely all true but I do think it should be pointed out that if Brady and Montana didn't have their great coaches, they still would have been very good players if they got a chance, atleast in my
Opinion.

 

[fightingirish595]

I don't buy it because when Montana played, the AFC was atrocious. The NFCCG was the real Super Bowl and Montana lost a few of those.

I also don't like the idea that it is somehow more noble to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs than in the final round of the playoffs.

It's something that's been around for a long time, almost since the inception of the game. Doesn't make sense to me either

 

[aluminum seats]

This is true. That's why Brady is number one for me. Greatest comeback in a Super Bowl. Although the only thing not true in your statement was 4th quarter drives in both losses. It was only in the 1st loss

Must be the homer in me, I had the thought that Brady pulled the Pats ahead in the second Giants Super Bowl too. But of course, that was the Welker drop game. Pats didn't score in the 4th quarter, and Brady threw what sounds like a bad pick earlier in the quarter. (First down, approaching midfield, deep pass intercepted at the 8. I'm looking at the play-by-play, because if the Pats lose a Super Bowl I NEVER WATCH AGAIN. If anyone remembers that pass and can provide details that'd be great.)