Do you buy into the narrative of Joe Montana's "unblemished Super Bowl record" vs. Brady?

[RobertWeathers]

I agree. Just like '85 Patriots who beat Jets, Raiders and Dolphins on the road with (what should have been) their backup QB.

Roger is absolutely an all-timer. He did have top teams with stars, but he knew what to do with them and had a great coach in Landry.

Staubach is in the tier just under the greatest, along with Starr, Bradshaw, Baugh, Marino...there are others in there too.

And no, Manning and Elway are nowhere near that level.

Remove Marino and your list is perfect.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If Marino played today it wouldn't be fair but I think you undervalue elway

John had top-of-the-league defenses and solid support offensively and on ST.

In other words, he played on very good teams.

Would be very interesting, perhaps enlightening, to plug Marino in there and see how he does.

Dolphins began decline in '85, and just didn't improve.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Remove Marino and your list is perfect.

Yeah, Dan was really talented though...

 

[Uptown]

**** Montana

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, Dan was really talented though...

His talent is undeniable. Hes a HoF for a reason

But when it comes to decision-making and risk avoidance ala what we see with Tom, hes a question mark.

Hes in the same category as Peyton,IMO.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

His talent is undeniable. Hes a HoF for a reason

But when it comes to decision-making and risk avoidance ala what we see with Tom, hes a question mark.

Hes in the same category as Peyton,IMO.

I think both guys were depended upon to "do it all", an approach which has sunk many a QB-talented team...how much had Tom's team-first humility enabled him to succeed?

Marino got impatient. You're right, he doesn't belong on a level with those other champions...time for me to catch up on my sleep and hope to rejuvenate some brain cells...Holly Hippodays

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think both guys were depended upon to "do it all", an approach which has sunk many a QB-talented team...how much had Tom's team-first humility enabled him to succeed?

Marino got impatient. You're right, he doesn't belong on a level with those other champions...time for me to catch up on my sleep and hope to rejuvenate some brain cells...Holly Hippodays

I'm jealous. I've got offspring out with friends that I know I'll be waiting up for....

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I'm jealous. I've got offspring out with friends that I know I'll be waiting up for....

...didn't mention I get up at 1:30 to go to work...this is our busiest time of year

 

[RobertWeathers]

...didn't mention I get up at 1:30 to go to work...this is our busiest time of year

Go sleep!

 

[fightingirish595]

Dan Marino played on terrible teams aside from his first couple years. Elways teams were better but really weren't Super Bowl caliber and didn't belong on the field with the NFCs best

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Go sleep!

Mom, do you think someday I can be as good as Joe?

Can I please see my team look like this (OOW normal) next season?

 

[fightingirish595]

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

View attachment 15186

 

[stcjones]

Brady has had to play in an era where the players on ALL SIDES OF THE BALL ....are BETTER.! Secondly, some QBs are fortunate enough to have a LOADED Deck offensively like P Manning and Dan Marino......Brady has accomplished SO MUCH more than Montana has......With LESS overall to WORK with in his career......especially compared to Montana....who had the Greatest WR of all time.....a Top 10 of all time TE ....and a kick *** RB and OL to help him out......Brady has had a SLIVER of that....So first and foremost.....Tom Brady is THE GREATEST, MOST TALENTED, QB to EVER play the game!!!!

 

[fightingirish595]

Brady has had to play in an era where the players on ALL SIDES OF THE BALL ....are BETTER.! Secondly, some QBs are fortunate enough to have a LOADED Deck offensively like P Manning and Dan Marino......Brady has accomplished SO MUCH more than Montana has......With LESS overall to WORK with in his career......especially compared to Montana....who had the Greatest WR of all time.....a Top 10 of all time TE ....and a kick *** RB and OL to help him out......Brady has had a SLIVER of that....So first and foremost.....Tom Brady is THE GREATEST, MOST TALENTED, QB to EVER play the game!!!!

You lost me at Marino had a loaded deck offensively, what are you talking about

 

[patsfan13]

I agree. Just like '85 Patriots who beat Jets, Raiders and Dolphins on the road with (what should have been) their backup QB.

Roger is absolutely an all-timer. He did have top teams with stars, but he knew what to do with them and had a great coach in Landry.

Staubach is in the tier just under the greatest, along with Starr, Bradshaw, Baugh, Marino...there are others in there too.

And no, Manning and Elway are nowhere near that level.

Staubach also has the second highest winning % in league history at .746, Brady of course leads that category with a .776. Montana is third BTW with a .713 winning record in the regular season, Manning is 4th with a .702 winning %. They are the only NFL QB's in the modern era with a winning % over 70%.

Otto Graham has a great record but he played before the modern era of football.


Brady also leads Montana in playoff winning % with a .710 winning % to Montana's .696. They trail Bart Starr, Bradshaw, Plunkett and Aikman in that measure I am looking at QB's playing in 10 or more playoff games. . of course Aikman and Starr played far fewer playoff games. Especially for Starr there was only 1 playoff game for most of his career the NFL Championship game which lowers his total opportunities to compete in playoff games.


When you look at the list of all time winning % among nfl qb and see the number of elite QB from this era, it tells me that the Rules, Free Agency and Salary cap make the role of the AB far more important tna ever in the history of the game.

List of most wins by a National Football League starting quarterback - Wikipedia


Fingers crossed sometime in early Oct next year Brady will have more regular season win s and more playoff wins (more SB win?) than any qb in NFL history. Far and away the GOAT is ain't close now and the comparisons will grow more compelling over time.

 

[deroc5050]

Bradys playoff passer rating is 88 in a combined 31 games. I think is regular season passer rating is 98. Thats a 10 point drop off.

 

[Kargetina]

Winning a SB is so arbitrary, depending on so many factors, that it makes comparing individual titles in team sports like the NFL irrational.

Brady gave the team a go-ahead TD in both SB42 and 49, yet he lost one in which:

1) Samuel could have intercepted the ball
2)The Giants could have been stopped on 4-th and 1
3)Eli could have been sacked
4)The helmet catch could have been prevented by Harrison

He won the game in which the opposite team was almost certainly the winner except a last second tackle at the 1 and a miraculous interception.

Brady played no role and had no control over any of those plays. The QB position is the most influential on the field but there are still 30 more players that can make or break a game.

Let's say the helmet catch never happened and everything else is identical. Brady would have 5 rings. Would he be a better player?
Same thing if Malcolm doesn't intercept the pass. Would Brady be a worse player with 3 rings? He had no influence on those plays, so why would his stature rise or fall?

Legacy rankings are interesting to debate but they are always reductionist and simplistic, otherwise they would be impossible to compare. In a individual sport like tennis, in which the ref has almost no influence on the court, sure. In the NFL? Not in my opinion.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Brady has had to play in an era where the players on ALL SIDES OF THE BALL ....are BETTER.! Secondly, some QBs are fortunate enough to have a LOADED Deck offensively like P Manning and Dan Marino......Brady has accomplished SO MUCH more than Montana has......With LESS overall to WORK with in his career......especially compared to Montana....who had the Greatest WR of all time.....a Top 10 of all time TE ....and a kick *** RB and OL to help him out......Brady has had a SLIVER of that....So first and foremost.....Tom Brady is THE GREATEST, MOST TALENTED, QB to EVER play the game!!!!

Your enthusiasm is great; I don't know that Tom is the most talented, but I think he's among the most cerebral. Joe didn't always have superstars to throw to, like in the early 80's, but I think Joe could be right behind Tom.

All the athletes in future generations are mostly better, it's just the way it is. But it's no reason to denigrate the players from the past, you just need to judge them in the context of their generation.

Let's root for Tom and us to get #5 this year, and when I think of the best ever, I ask myself, who would I start in a game I had to win? Yeah, I'll take Tom.