DL Jonathan Fanene to be released?

[BradyManny]

And if it wasn't they'd have to prove he knew it wasn't yet he knew it should have been and he didn't disclose that. More likely they simply missed it or it's a recent development and working in OTA's and later again in camp just triggered it. And they're experiencing buyers remorse.

He is obviously contending this isn't a pre existing condition, it's something that flared up (inflamation in his knee) during OTA's then again 5 days into camp. Not unusual. Howe says he passed 2 physicals, before signing the contract and before camp.

Bedard says he is undergoing a scope procedure tomorrow on his left knee and expects to be ready to play in 4-8 weeks.

And all of this has me scratching my head again. Why wouldn't the Patriots just wait 4-8 weeks then? Is one roster spot really worth that much to them in that time period? With so much invested up front, I don't get the urgency to act.

 

[BananaRepublican]

And all of this has me scratching my head again. Why wouldn't the Patriots just wait 4-8 weeks then? Is one roster spot really worth that much to them in that time period? With so much invested up front, I don't get the urgency to act.

Likely that they feel he won't be able to play. Maybe ever again. Perhaps Fanene is in denial about the possibility of arthritis.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

And all of this has me scratching my head again. Why wouldn't the Patriots just wait 4-8 weeks then? Is one roster spot really worth that much to them in that time period? With so much invested up front, I don't get the urgency to act.

Because if they did they'd lose the ability to even attempt to persue the signing bonus.

 

[jason423]

Bedard says he is undergoing a scope procedure tomorrow on his left knee and expects to be ready to play in 4-8 weeks.

I wonder if that played into it. Every now and then you will hear of athletes going and getting their own physicals and coming to the team with the recommendation of their doctor. A few years back Carlos Beltran of the Mets went so far as to get surgery without even letting the team know.

I guess its possible the players agent calls the team and says my guy just isnt getting better. His doctor mentioned to him in the past that he would be better off getting his knee cleaned out and we think we should explore that option. Hell only miss a few weeks and be ready to go by week 6.

Belichick hears that and says go ahead and do it, just know he wont be here when he is recovered.

 

[mayoclinic]

debacle???

It's not a huge mistake, but you have to wonder why it happened. Very unlike the Patriots.

de·ba·cle (d-bäkl, -bkl, db-kl)
n.
1. A sudden, disastrous collapse, downfall, or defeat; a rout.
2. A total, often ludicrous failure.
3. The breaking up of ice in a river.
4. A violent flood.

searching for reasons to be paranoid and/or skeptical?

debacle...that's pretty knee jerk Borges material

Well, this is fascinating and could get ugly.

This is going to get ugly..

Nope. I stand by my use of the term "debacle". Paying nearly $4M in guaranteed money to a guy who doesn't play a snap for the team qualifies in my book as "a total, often ludicrous failure". For Fanene to go from a key piece of the defense to cut without even the benefit of IR qualifies as a "sudden, disastrous collapse". "You have to wonder why it happened" and "very unlike the Patriots" essentially implies that the FO screwed up. And with the team now claiming that Fanene failed to disclose a chronic ailment and potentially trying to recoup money, I think this qualifies as more than just a FA failure. It has the potential to get ugly, and while Fanene was never a foundational player, he went from becoming a significant part of the defensive plan to an embarrassment. I'm not paranoid, skeptical, and certainly not going "knee jerk Ron Borges"on the team. I'm not casting blame at any one in particular - we don't know enough about what happened. But this one imploded, and there's no real way around that, and I think that justifies my use of the term.

 

[Joker]

a debacle is a total collapse...so you stand by your post that this is a debacle therfore the Patriots will collapse and the season is already lost...that is what debacle means...I think it's a tempest in a teapot, could care less about THEIR money and Fanoonan NEVER EVER played a snap for the Pats so I can't possibly understand why YOU place the penultimate "Debacle" tag now that he's been released. He NEVER PLAYED A SNAP IN PRACTICE. They went 13-3 and to the Bowl last season...what freakin' debacle??????????????????????????????????

This is what it is...a curious decision that, without knowing ALL the facts, makes one wonder what happened from then until now to make the Patriots take such a significant hit to the cap.As usual, it will all come out in the wash....much like last season and the month of September when there were ten sky is falling chicken little bawkfests to every one actual Patriots fan team discussion. When you start throwing "DEBACLE!!!" out there two game into the preseason, it makes me wonder just what the hell you're going to post if the Pats start off slow....holocaust, perhaps?

 

[mayoclinic]

a debacle is a total collapse...so you stand by your post that this is a debacle therfore the Patriots will collapse and the season is already lost...that is what debacle means...I think it's a tempest in a teapot, could care less about THEIR money and Fanoonan NEVER EVER played a snap for the Pats so I can't possibly understand why YOU place the penultimate "Debacle" tag now that he's been released. He NEVER PLAYED A SNAP IN PRACTICE. They went 13-3 and to the Bowl last season...what freakin' debacle??????????????????????????????????

Who said anything about the Patriots collapsing and the season being lost? I just said the Fanene situation was a debacle, as in a mess, nothing about the Pats season or the team as a whole.

This is what it is...a curious decision that, without knowing ALL the facts, makes one wonder what happened from then until now to make the Patriots take such a significant hit to the cap.As usual, it will all come out in the wash....much like last season and the month of September when there were ten sky is falling chicken little bawkfests to every one actual Patriots fan team discussion. When you start throwing "DEBACLE!!!" out there two game into the preseason, it makes me wonder just what the hell you're going to post if the Pats start off slow....holocaust, perhaps?

It seems like you're the one going Ron Borges over this. I think you're overreacting in a huge way to one word. Sorry if it offended you, but obviously this is not a productive discussion. I've never been part of the "chicken little" crowd, and I don't appreciate being labelled as such when I've made no comments whatsoever except that the Fanene situation is an unexpected mess.

 

[resdubwhite]

What about A Demi-Debacle?

or not quite a debacle, but not far off one either.

 

[CBC1331]

a debacle is a total collapse...so you stand by your post that this is a debacle therfore the Patriots will collapse and the season is already lost...that is what debacle means...I think it's a tempest in a teapot, could care less about THEIR money and Fanoonan NEVER EVER played a snap for the Pats so I can't possibly understand why YOU place the penultimate "Debacle" tag now that he's been released. He NEVER PLAYED A SNAP IN PRACTICE. They went 13-3 and to the Bowl last season...what freakin' debacle??????????????????????????????????

What a ridiculous overreaction to one word in a comment that was actually pretty spot on...

 

[Dragda]

I like how BB and staff let a player have his dignity. "It just didn't work out..." was all Bill would say. He is a players coach--not in the sense of being their buddy, but being a colleague of theirs and having their back.

 

[BradyManny]

Because if they did they'd lose the ability to even attempt to persue the signing bonus.

It still seems shocking to me that it came to this and that they felt recouping the bonus - or rather, the shot to recoup the bonus - is worth the risk of losing his services permanently.

I tend to agree with some thoughts put out there that maybe there were other factors involved that made the decision easier for them. Bedard referenced some incompatibility. Maybe that's it. I don't know.

The Patriots really haven't guessed wrong on a guy before. When they move on from someone, that player is normally toast (Afalius, Bodden spring to mind). We'll see how Fanene plays out. If he ends up playing for another team and contributing, then something else must have been at play here.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It still seems shocking to me that it came to this and that they felt recouping the bonus - or rather, the shot to recoup the bonus - is worth the risk of losing his services permanently.

I tend to agree with some thoughts put out there that maybe there were other factors involved that made the decision easier for them. Bedard referenced some incompatibility. Maybe that's it. I don't know.

The Patriots really haven't guessed wrong on a guy before. When they move on from someone, that player is normally toast (Afalius, Bodden spring to mind). We'll see how Fanene plays out. If he ends up playing for another team and contributing, then something else must have been at play here.

Actually they have, it's just that they haven't moved on this fast before. And the only obvious explanation for that would be the possibility of recouping sunk cost, which didn't exist under the old CBA because of arbitration rulings that interpreted it's language as precluding it. Hence they battled for and got some language changes in this one that at least until tested they believe offer them an opportunity to. However whether Fanene is an ideal test case will remain to be seen.

Thought it was interesting that Bedard stated he was sent home three weeks ago. That smacks a little of frustration ala Ty Warren. You didn't take care of your schit when you had the opportunity to and now you're going belly up on us again... Different of course in that he was on the back end of a deal they had gotten some early value on and he was their draftee and they had history some of which was quite positive. Put when push came to shove with him they shoved. He did go on to play although there is some question as to whether he has been worth the added investment for Denver since. Will probably see a similar situation unfold with Fanene, especially if he lands back in Cincy where they know him and for more reasonable money will likely be more inclined to work with him to extract whatever they can.

It's a lousy situation but as the doc Bedard spoke to stated arthritis isn't always easy to diagnose especially early on and if at the time unsymptomatic. Missing something like a hole in Tedy's heart happens because until that happened players weren't getting the kind of baseline heart testing that would reveal it. Knees are a different story, and that is one thing every player gets thoroughly assessed for often. But arthritis isn't some little anomoly that is well hidden and suddenly comes to light in a dramatic fashion. It's the result of a more gradual process where over time joints begin to succomb to the effects of cumulative long term wear and tear coupled with periodic acute stresses and viola, suddenly it's detectable (as inflamation). Sometimes it comes and goes at the outset, mitigated by a combination of rest and the use of anti inflamatories. Eventually those don't work as well, at least not for guys who are forced to get back at it on the professional level as athletes. Often times those are the guys who have been routinely lining up for their Toradol shot to get from game to game. And that may no longer be an option if the league bans it's use due to concerns about long term usage and even potential short term usage.

Bottom line they likely don't forsee solid long term production from Fanene and faced with the choice of muddling through and getting whatever the can out of him while risking further investment (be it in cash or roster space) vs. cutting your losses and possibly even having a punchers shot at recouping something via grievance or settlement, they chose the latter.

They will likely be a little more reticent about some signings going forward (guys like Carter coming to mind) but at the end of the day they will still have to take some risks. That's just the nature of the beast. Used to be easier to stock a roster with some grizzled vets you knew had issues but whom you also knew were gamers you could managed to get just enough out of. Now the value of developing younger depth sufficiently to plug those gaps will become more significant. Fanene was on the bubble as far as age of onset of the beginning of the end. And the bubble won. They were careful about the length of his signing - they'd have been fine with a very good first season and diminishing returns in season two and a vet mininum salary third season or parting of the ways altogether. Just couldn't even get past jump this time.

I don't think it's anybody's fault per say. It is what it is. Bill was his usual self in commenting on the situation. Just didn't work out. The decision to attempt to recoup some cash will be or has been made above his pay grade by people who aren't as simpatico with the guys who play this game because it's their money and they entered the fray as fans and to this day often take things more personally and at least initially react as fans would when disappointed.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yah, those damn Krafts wanting some reasonable player value for their personal funds.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Actually they have, it's just that they haven't moved on this fast before. And the only obvious explanation for that would be the possibility of recouping sunk cost, which didn't exist under the old CBA because of arbitration rulings that interpreted it's language as precluding it. Hence they battled for and got some language changes in this one that at least until tested they believe offer them an opportunity to. However whether Fanene is an ideal test case will remain to be seen.

Thought it was interesting that Bedard stated he was sent home three weeks ago. That smacks a little of frustration ala Ty Warren. You didn't take care of your schit when you had the opportunity to and now you're going belly up on us again... Different of course in that he was on the back end of a deal they had gotten some early value on and he was their draftee and they had history some of which was quite positive. Put when push came to shove with him they shoved. He did go on to play although there is some question as to whether he has been worth the added investment for Denver since. Will probably see a similar situation unfold with Fanene, especially if he lands back in Cincy where they know him and for more reasonable money will likely be more inclined to work with him to extract whatever they can.

It's a lousy situation but as the doc Bedard spoke to stated arthritis isn't always easy to diagnose especially early on and if at the time unsymptomatic. Missing something like a hole in Tedy's heart happens because until that happened players weren't getting the kind of baseline heart testing that would reveal it. Knees are a different story, and that is one thing every player gets thoroughly assessed for often. But arthritis isn't some little anomoly that is well hidden and suddenly comes to light in a dramatic fashion. It's the result of a more gradual process where over time joints begin to succomb to the effects of cumulative long term wear and tear coupled with periodic acute stresses and viola, suddenly it's detectable (as inflamation). Sometimes it comes and goes at the outset, mitigated by a combination of rest and the use of anti inflamatories. Eventually those don't work as well, at least not for guys who are forced to get back at it on the professional level as athletes. Often times those are the guys who have been routinely lining up for their Toradol shot to get from game to game. And that may no longer be an option if the league bans it's use due to concerns about long term usage and even potential short term usage.

Bottom line they likely don't forsee solid long term production from Fanene and faced with the choice of muddling through and getting whatever the can out of him while risking further investment (be it in cash or roster space) vs. cutting your losses and possibly even having a punchers shot at recouping something via grievance or settlement, they chose the latter.

They will likely be a little more reticent about some signings going forward (guys like Carter coming to mind) but at the end of the day they will still have to take some risks. That's just the nature of the beast. Used to be easier to stock a roster with some grizzled vets you knew had issues but whom you also knew were gamers you could managed to get just enough out of. Now the value of developing younger depth sufficiently to plug those gaps will become more significant. Fanene was on the bubble as far as age of onset of the beginning of the end. And the bubble won. They were careful about the length of his signing - they'd have been fine with a very good first season and diminishing returns in season two and a vet mininum salary third season or parting of the ways altogether. Just couldn't even get past jump this time.

I don't think it's anybody's fault per say. It is what it is. Bill was his usual self in commenting on the situation. Just didn't work out. The decision to attempt to recoup some cash will be or has been made above his pay grade by people who aren't as simpatico with the guys who play this game because it's their money and they entered the fray as fans and to this day often take things more personally and at least initially react as fans would when disappointed.

The farm wasn't bet and the team is not in a position where they HAVE depend on him.

If the specific skills wanted are out there, ya have to make a move.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yah, those damn Krafts wanting some reasonable player value for their personal funds.

I'm not knocking them. It's just that we know they are very savvy businessmen and who have also invested in a business where while you are almost licensed to print money unless you are a moron that business is one where 53 of your necessary to compete in the market widgets are always one hit or less away from worthless and must be replaced at additional cost. Lots of fans periodically wail about the unfairness of unguaranteed contracts for these widgets as a result. That would bankrupt the ability of even this industry's to print enough money to remain solvent for long. There are no (or very limited) guarantees cuts both ways though. More often than not they get plus value on their investments here. Sometimes they take it in the shorts.

And I'm not saying they lack empathy. We see it on display fairly often. It's just more selectivey applied than across the board because while they are fans of the game they're concurrently trying to run a business and at the end of the day that is impacted by the bottom line.

Again, the greatest football line Bill ever could have coined was it is what it is... This is just a case of the old adage that sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail. In business given the choice the Kraft's make few bones about preferring to be the hammer when the only alternative is to be nailed. That's why they're so successful in all their business ventures.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The farm wasn't bet and the team is not in a position where they HAVE depend on him.

If the specific skills wanted are out there, ya have to make a move.

I agree, I'm not saying anything to the contrary. They get sunk cost in ways non owner fans seldom do. And the perceived need in March certainly doesn't appear to exist to that extent in August. That said, they bristle at the prospect because it's their $$$, so if given any shot at recouping it, they're going to think hard about doing that. Doesn't mean they personally resent Fanene or even begrudge him getting what he could out of a career (unlike say Polian visibly did with Corey Simon back in 2007...). They just wish it hadn't transpired at their expense. Bob isn't going to lose any sleep over the personal cash lost, drop in his bucket. He's just going to persue any avenue that might mitigate the impact his ability to maximize his cap. Short a smoking gun (documented proof beyond chatter that Fanene knew he had arthritis developing before he signed on here) they aren't going to prevail. But there is also the chance Fanene won't want to get into a mud wrestling match over the deferred portion of the bonus money at a time when he's trying to catch on somewhere else, in which case the sides could reach an amicable settlement where he gets to keep what he got and they get to keep what he hasn't yet got or potentially more.

 

[goheels22002]

Yah, those damn Krafts wanting some reasonable player value for their personal funds.

I wouldn't say that the Krafts are doing this out of grandpa's trust fund. The people who buy tickets, buy the overpriced gear, eat at the concessions, watch the tube, park their cars, use the Patriots affinity visa card, etc. are kicking in a few samoleans for the effort. Bob and Jonathan get to spend our money.

I hope they get some back. It would be nice if some cap relief were available in this situation like they have in the NBA when an injury or medical condition that comes to light.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Short a smoking gun (documented proof beyond chatter that Fanene knew he had arthritis developing before he signed on here) they aren't going to prevail. But there is also the chance Fanene won't want to get into a mud wrestling match over the deferred portion of the bonus money at a time when he's trying to catch on somewhere else, in which case the sides could reach an amicable settlement where he gets to keep what he got and they get to keep what he hasn't yet got or potentially more.

I see it the same way. But we're deep into unknown territory chaos theory in this situation.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I agree, I'm not saying anything to the contrary. They get sunk cost in ways non owner fans seldom do. And the perceived need in March certainly doesn't appear to exist to that extent in August. That said, they bristle at the prospect because it's their $$$, so if given any shot at recouping it, they're going to think hard about doing that. Doesn't mean they personally resent Fanene or even begrudge him getting what he could out of a career (unlike say Polian visibly did with Corey Simon back in 2007...). They just wish it hadn't transpired at their expense. Bob isn't going to lose any sleep over the personal cash lost, drop in his bucket. He's just going to persue any avenue that might mitigate the impact his ability to maximize his cap. Short a smoking gun (documented proof beyond chatter that Fanene knew he had arthritis developing before he signed on here) they aren't going to prevail. But there is also the chance Fanene won't want to get into a mud wrestling match over the deferred portion of the bonus money at a time when he's trying to catch on somewhere else, in which case the sides could reach an amicable settlement where he gets to keep what he got and they get to keep what he hasn't yet got or potentially more.

The prudent nature in the signing which allows for decisive action....makes it look worse.

Who knew.

 

[Joker]

Who said anything about the Patriots collapsing and the season being lost? I just said the Fanene situation was a debacle, as in a mess, nothing about the Pats season or the team as a whole.



It seems like you're the one going Ron Borges over this. I think you're overreacting in a huge way to one word. Sorry if it offended you, but obviously this is not a productive discussion. I've never been part of the "chicken little" crowd, and I don't appreciate being labelled as such when I've made no comments whatsoever except that the Fanene situation is an unexpected mess.

It's semantics ...you think debacle means a specific little mess...and this is what the Fanene issue is. Fine by me.

Apologies if you think I'm labeling you one of "them". Not my intention.

Don't label me a "Ron Borges type". I am an anti-Ron Borges type.