Deaderick and Weston: thow-away picks? Probably not

[DaBruinz]

Robinson now has to overtake Mike Teel as well as Hoyer, and I don't see him overtaking either.
Although a 4th arm during TC is a must, I just don't think that a draft pick was needed to get one, not when that pick could've been used on a RB, WR, Pass-Rusher or DB.

Yes, lets us a pick on positions the Pats already have a ton of talent at... well, except for Pass-rusher..

You never make sense.. You are always there with the knee-jerk reactions..

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Fair points; but I think that WR & 3-4 OLB were also positions of depth this year, and I would've loved to see Bill take one more of each in the 7th round, or at the very least sign one more of the best of each as UDFAs. With no salary cap this season, Bill could've offered top dollar to the likes of Blair White, Scott Long, Chris McGaha, and the Fresno State troika of Seji Ajirotutu, Lonyae Miller & AJ Jefferson.

Actually, he couldn't. While there is no overall maximum team salary (i.e., "salary cap"), the rookie salary cap remains in place, and that cap includes the signing bonuses given to UDFAs.

 

[patchick]

I'm frankly a little baffled that anyone could object to taking Deaderick or Weston with 7th-round compensatory picks! Deaderick is a classic 5-technique, a 2-year starter for Nick Saban who was widely projected (by Scout.com, PFW, SI, Ourlads, etc.) to go in the 4th-5th rounds. Weston is an underachiever, but a rare athlete for his size -- measurables identical to last year's #3 overall pick Tyson Jackson, only bigger.

Obviously, any late 7th-round pick is a long shot. But finding legitimate 3-4 DL bodies at that point in the draft is extraordinary, why the heck not?

As for the complaint that Zac Robinson "could have been a UDFA," isn't that a kind of silly charge 11 spots after the end of the 7th round proper? ANY player taken then would almost surely have been undrafted otherwise.

 

[ralphoutloud]

I wish we would have picked up Donovan Warren, I think he's going to make it in the NFL as a good CB.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I wish we would have picked up Donovan Warren, I think he's going to make it in the NFL as a good CB.

Why is that? I'm not sure if it's the poor tape or the poorer forty time, but Warren just screams bust to me. Intrigued by your differing point of view.

And, honestly, anyone who's upset over compensatory 7th rounders is just splitting hairs at this point. Sure, I would have liked my guys in the later rounds, but BB has an awesome track record in the 6th and 7th, and he took potential starters this year--either with us, or someone else. That kind of immense potential is too much to overlook in favor of a developmental 4th stringer. Sorry.

 

[captain stone]

Actually, he couldn't. While there is no overall maximum team salary (i.e., "salary cap"), the rookie salary cap remains in place, and that cap includes the signing bonuses given to UDFAs.

Thanks; I didn't know that UDFA signing bonuses fell under the umbrella of the Rookie salary cap.

 

[captain stone]

As for the complaint that Zac Robinson "could have been a UDFA," isn't that a kind of silly charge 11 spots after the end of the 7th round proper? ANY player taken then would almost surely have been undrafted otherwise.

But wouldn't you have preferred to see Bill take one of the best-avail. WRs or RBs or OLB/DEs instead of Zac Robinson, who's not nearly as highly-regarded as Hoyer and Teel were last season? I understand the need for a 4th - or even 5th - QB during TC; but any number of UDFAs or street vets could've filled that temporary need. Some of the WRs, RBs & Pass-Rushers still avail. at 250 had a much, much better chance of making the final 53 than Robinson does.

Am I splitting hairs? Yeah, I suppose; but what else are we to do during the off-season, read more puff-pieces about AFailus & Springs? Besides, a not-insignificant % of players today arrived as UDFAs, so I'm of the opinion that each & every draft pick - and UDFA signing - counts. And at certain positions, we can still use all the help we can get.

 

[Defsoul]

I wish we would have picked up Donovan Warren, I think he's going to make it in the NFL as a good CB.

The Jets will play him at safety, maybe he can make the transition. I always thought tackling was his strength.

 

[1968Bledsoefan]

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[mgteich]

There were no RB's WR's or OLB's that belichick thought would A) make the Practice Squad and be better than what could be had as UDFA's. I have gone on record as not expecting any UDFA to make the team. I think I (and others) said that BEFORE the draft. You may believe that the scrubs left were better than what we have or could easily get off the street. I disagree.
===================
WHAT TERRIBLE PLAYERS DID WE CHOOSE TO DRAFT INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR UDFA'S?
1) DEADERICK
I just checked nfl.com (only one opinion). Deaderick was rated hight than Austin Lane and TeoNeeshem. Many had him rated as 4th or 5th round quality. Deaderick is a well-coached and trained 3-4 DL. He is likely to be make the Practice Squad and could make the 53. He has a reasoanable chance for a future at DE for the patriots. He is a much better prospect that Pryor last year.
2) ROBINSON
He is more highly rated than 6 quarterbacks drafted before him, just a bit lower than Northwestern's QB Kafka. Perhaps you think that Hoyer does not need competition for his roster spot. I think that you are incorrect. And yes, Belichick also was able to bring in Mike Teel for even more competition. No, I don't think Robinson will make the 53. But then, I don't think anyone else drafted there would ahve made the squad either.
3) WESTON
This is a shot in the dark as was Pryor last year. I don't see him having any chance.
===
BOTTOM LINE
(A) Belichick judged that the players he drafted might not be available to him as UDFA's or that there would be competition for the players. Personally, I would have drafted Deaderick earlier.
(B) End of the 7th picks have very little chance of making our 53, about the same chance as UDFA's.

But wouldn't you have preferred to see Bill take one of the best-avail. WRs or RBs or OLB/DEs instead of Zac Robinson, who's not nearly as highly-regarded as Hoyer and Teel were last season? I understand the need for a 4th - or even 5th - QB during TC; but any number of UDFAs or street vets could've filled that temporary need. Some of the WRs, RBs & Pass-Rushers still avail. at 250 had a much, much better chance of making the final 53 than Robinson does.

Am I splitting hairs? Yeah, I suppose; but what else are we to do during the off-season, read more puff-pieces about AFailus & Springs? Besides, a not-insignificant % of players today arrived as UDFAs, so I'm of the opinion that each & every draft pick - and UDFA signing - counts. And at certain positions, we can still use all the help we can get.

 

[Criptonite]

But wouldn't you have preferred to see Bill take one of the best-avail. WRs or RBs or OLB/DEs instead of Zac Robinson, who's not nearly as highly-regarded as Hoyer and Teel were last season? I understand the need for a 4th - or even 5th - QB during TC; but any number of UDFAs or street vets could've filled that temporary need. Some of the WRs, RBs & Pass-Rushers still avail. at 250 had a much, much better chance of making the final 53 than Robinson does.

Am I splitting hairs? Yeah, I suppose; but what else are we to do during the off-season, read more puff-pieces about AFailus & Springs? Besides, a not-insignificant % of players today arrived as UDFAs, so I'm of the opinion that each & every draft pick - and UDFA signing - counts. And at certain positions, we can still use all the help we can get.

I believe the perceived value of Robinson is generally higher that how you're viewing him. I don't think he's just training camp fodder. Like you said, it's easy to find someone to fill that role. He has decent skills and his got the important intangibles like leadership, mental toughness, character and work ethic. So the guy does have potential. At that point in the draft he was a great value. IMO there was a big dropoff between him and the next best QB. Hiller was probably next on my board and although I like him, I think Robinson has a better shot of making it in the NFL. If they pass on Robinson there, they may not be able to get him as an UDFA because all the teams would be able to compete for him.

As far as the other positions go, the Pats were likely aiming at a RB in the 6th, but a late run sealed the deal on that. I didn't see anybody else worth drafting once that run concluded. After picking up Holt and drafting Taylor, I think the Pats were all set at WR. They have vets, they have youth, they have projects, they have people you can rely on. There weren't a lot of pass rushers left at that point either, but we did end up with Dane Fletcher as an UDFA. I was really happy with that move. But I do agree with your sentiment that it would have been nice to grab an additional pass rusher. I liked the Cunningham pick, but I'm still at a loss as to why the Pats and other 3-4 teams passed on Ricky Sapp a hundred times. Maybe there's an undisclosed injury or something else I just don't know about. From watching game film, interviews and studying up on this guy, I thought he was a perfect fit here. I had him ranked #1 and Cunningham ranked #2 as pass rush OLBs in our system. Obviously there was something wrong with him as he went later than any source had him slotted.

 

[captain stone]

If they pass on Robinson there, they may not be able to get him as an UDFA because all the teams would be able to compete for him.
No big loss. Robinson isn't going to jump ahead of Hoyer (or Teel) anyway, so it makes little difference who the 4th QB in TC is.

As far as the other positions go, the Pats were likely aiming at a RB in the 6th, but a late run sealed the deal on that. I didn't see anybody else worth drafting once that run concluded.
What about Lonyae Miller or Andre Dixon?

After picking up Holt and drafting Taylor, I think the Pats were all set at WR.
All set at WR? That's news to me.

There weren't a lot of pass rushers left at that point either, but we did end up with Dane Fletcher as an UDFA. I was really happy with that move.
Never heard of Dane Fletcher before the draft, and I suspect that I won't hear from him after TC, either.

But I do agree with your sentiment that it would have been nice to grab an additional pass rusher. I liked the Cunningham pick, but I'm still at a loss as to why the Pats and other 3-4 teams passed on Ricky Sapp a hundred times. Maybe there's an undisclosed injury or something else I just don't know about. From watching game film, interviews and studying up on this guy, I thought he was a perfect fit here. I had him ranked #1 and Cunningham ranked #2 as pass rush OLBs in our system. Obviously there was something wrong with him as he went later than any source had him slotted.

I wouldn't have objected if Sapp were chosen at 113, either, esp. after Bill blew the Kindle opportunity by choosing Gronk at 42 instead. There is no way I would've taken 2 TEs within our first 6 picks; the choice within those first 6 picks should've been either Gronk or Hernandez, not both. There was plenty of time & picks to grab another TE later in the draft.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I wouldn't have objected if Sapp were chosen at 113, either, esp. after Bill blew the Kindle opportunity by choosing Gronk at 42 instead. There is no way I would've taken 2 TEs within our first 6 picks; the choice within those first 6 picks should've been either Gronk or Hernandez, not both. There was plenty of time & picks to grab another TE later in the draft.

If choosing two TEs early means they don't have to work Welker/Edelman to death, I won't exactly complain.

 

[Criptonite]

No big loss. Robinson isn't going to jump ahead of Hoyer (or Teel) anyway, so it makes little difference who the 4th QB in TC is.

Not to put down Hoyer (I actually like him), but we're talking about an undrafted player we picked up last year who has thrown a total of 27 passes in the NFL. I have no idea what makes you think it's impossible for someone to pass him on the depth chart.

What about Lonyae Miller or Andre Dixon?

What about them? Miller was an OK backup RB in college. Dixon wasn't special either and he has off field issues. I don't even think he was picked up as a UDFA. Last I heard he had signed or was about to sign with the UFL.

All set at WR? That's news to me.

We have a star #1. We have fine route running vet with great hands who can come in and catch 30 or 40 balls. We have a pair of young 3rd round picks from the last two drafts. We have a very good slot WR who's entering his second year. Then we have another star who may join the team half way through the year. In addition to that, there's another 10 guys on the roster trying to make the team. Could it be better? Sure. Would most teams in the NFL rather have our WRs? Of course. Would a 7th round draft pick have had a good shot at making the team? I don't think so.

Never heard of Dane Fletcher before the draft, and I suspect that I won't hear from him after TC, either.

You're probably right. It's rare for a UDFA to make a team. Players go undrafted for a reason. Fletcher is a smaller OLB (<6'2") who is a hard worker with a nonstop motor. He was a phenomenal pass rushing DE, but he's from Montana State. So not only is he switching positions, but he's always played against crap competition.

I wouldn't have objected if Sapp were chosen at 113, either, esp. after Bill blew the Kindle opportunity by choosing Gronk at 42 instead. There is no way I would've taken 2 TEs within our first 6 picks; the choice within those first 6 picks should've been either Gronk or Hernandez, not both. There was plenty of time & picks to grab another TE later in the draft.

I never thought Kindle was a fit for our D, plus he has serious injury issues that scared everyone off. When somebody slides that far, you know there's problems. Even though I'm a big Sapp fan, same goes with him. I didn't like the 2 TE picks either. I thought the position was so deep you could get great quality later on. Maybe BB was looking ahead to next year's class which is looking very poor. Maybe he thought this was his only chance to secure a top quality TE. IDK.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I never thought Kindle was a fit for our D, plus he has serious injury issues that scared everyone off. When somebody slides that far, you know there's problems. Even though I'm a big Sapp fan, same goes with him. I didn't like the 2 TE picks either. I thought the position was so deep you could get great quality later on. Maybe BB was looking ahead to next year's class which is looking very poor. Maybe he thought this was his only chance to secure a top quality TE. IDK.

Well, he needed to grab at least one, and he saw Gronkowski as the best fit for this offense; I think he would have been OK with waiting to grab one with a comp pick, but when Hernandez was still on the board in the fourth, it was just too much value at a position of need to pass up.

 

[BelichickFan]

I didn't go into the draft wanting two TE but I was very happy with the particular values when they were taken. We desperately need to be able to out physical teams like the Jets and I fully expect that to happen with Gronk and Crump in Week 2. I would have been happy to leave it at that but Hernandez has the ability to be another Dallas Clark type and there's no way I'm passing on that. Especially as we had so many picks we still were able to get a CB, ILB and OLB early around the TE picks.

I'm not sold on taking the punter so high and I'm just having to put my faith in the Cunningham pick but other than those two picks I absolutely love our draft.

 

[patchick]

Looking over this thread, I have a general question: is criticism of the 7th-round picks about the quality of the players themselves, or about positional need? And if it's the latter, what is the real meaning of "need" when it comes down to the bottom of the 7th and you've already made 9 or 10 or 11 selections?

Personally, by that point in the draft I assume I've done my roster-building already, and I now have 3 general categories I'm looking for regardless of position:

1. Straightforward value picks (players I had rated at 5th round or above)

2. "Swing for the fences" picks (longshots, often underexperienced, with a very high ceiling)

3. Developmental QBs (though you could argue this is just a subset of #2)

Looking at the 3 picks the Pats made late in the 7th, I have Deaderick as a category 1. (I rated him as a 5th rounder). Weston, an underachiever with ultra-rare physical qualities, is category 2. Robinson, obviously, is #3.

Left to my own devices I probably would have taken Deaderick, Blair White (another 5th on my board), and Tim Hiller as my QB, but the picks they made seem perfectly reasonable.

 

[JackBauer]

I'm not sold on taking the punter so high and I'm just having to put my faith in the Cunningham pick but other than those two picks I absolutely love our draft.

If they wanted Mesko, which they ostensibly did, taking him at that spot was the only choice.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

I wouldn't have objected if Sapp were chosen at 113, either, esp. after Bill blew the Kindle opportunity by choosing Gronk at 42 instead. There is no way I would've taken 2 TEs within our first 6 picks; the choice within those first 6 picks should've been either Gronk or Hernandez, not both. There was plenty of time & picks to grab another TE later in the draft.

Kindle (and Dunlap) were two of the most hyped OLBs deemed "fit" for 3-4 defenses. Then either because of injury or character, teams such as NE, Miami, Jets passed over them, some more than once. Read into it whatever you will. The Ravens at # 43 felt that it was worth taking Kindle at the risk of having him sit out a season in the next two/three years due to microfracture knee surgery. Gronk was a great choice in round two and Hernandez was simply too good to pass up in round 4. Both are complementary and together they give NE the ability to run schemes that can cause headaches to teams such as the Jets and the Colts.

As for the punter from Michigan, Zoltan, I have my doubts. Maybe his performance will validate the selection but there were any number of high quality player at positions of need in the 5th round that NE could have had. That and picking Cunningham (rated by most public draft experts as a 4th round pick) early are two quibbles -- but who would guessed how Brace and Vollmer would turn out (a miss and a hit).

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Looking over this thread, I have a general question: is criticism of the 7th-round picks about the quality of the players themselves, or about positional need? And if it's the latter, what is the real meaning of "need" when it comes down to the bottom of the 7th and you've already made 9 or 10 or 11 selections?

Personally, by that point in the draft I assume I've done my roster-building already, and I now have 3 general categories I'm looking for regardless of position:

1. Straightforward value picks (players I had rated at 5th round or above)

2. "Swing for the fences" picks (longshots, often underexperienced, with a very high ceiling)

3. Developmental QBs (though you could argue this is just a subset of #2)

Looking at the 3 picks the Pats made late in the 7th, I have Deaderick as a category 1. (I rated him as a 5th rounder). Weston, an underachiever with ultra-rare physical qualities, is category 2. Robinson, obviously, is #3.

Left to my own devices I probably would have taken Deaderick, Blair White (another 5th on my board), and Tim Hiller as my QB, but the picks they made seem perfectly reasonable.

Well put!!!