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Curran: Patriots offense gags in crunch time again

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Oct 15, 2012.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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  2. TheBostonStraggler

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    I have to agree with Curran's assessment. Today, and at moments in the recent past, the Patriot offense appears to flip a switch. With the switch on the Patriot O is very dynamic and potent. A snap of the ball, let it develop, hit the open guy. And while obviously plays are called and sometimes the pass will go to who the play is the called for -- the Patriots might be the best in the NFL at this dynamic. We have TB who is most capable at doing this......and BL, WW, AH, Gronk (and DB or SR or DW). One of these guys will get an edge in his match up most of the time.
    Yet crunch time comes and this dynamic sometimes evaporates. The O goes with the very quick, force it into one spot play which is not what this O thrives on. I don't know if it is the play calling and/or TB pushing this slimmed down approach, or the offense is generally tightening up because it is crunch time. But IMHO it seems obvious the Patriot O becomes too un-dynamic during crunch time. I have no problem with and understand the coaches want to run the clock and limit the possibility of a negative play......but for god's sake stop with this overly restrictive offensive approach during crunch time. As Curran said, the secondary is what it is. They can't be counted on to stop the opposing O during crunch time. BB and JM and TB need to understand what the Patriots are and are not capable of.....and play the kind of O that most teams will not be able to stop.

    The good news is some of what sunk the Patriots today is fixable. It doesn't take major planning to adjust the offensive philosophy to continue to press during crunch time (and #$%@ing know that we have a good running game now!!!!). And while, unfortunately, the secondary is likely to continue to give up lots of yards, it doesn't take a miraculous effort to make sure there is a safety over the top of the deepest receiver.
    The Patriots can win with this secondary. With this potent O and solid run stopping, the Patriots can win most of their games. What they can't do is play to sit on tenuous leads and expect the secondary can hold the lead. That is going to cause the Patriots to lose too many games.
    Onto the Jets.....
     
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady stank up the joint. He has one or two games where he usually does every year. But the offense still handed the defense a lead in the end and the defense blew it.
     
  4. TheBostonStraggler

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    That is an accurate recap, no doubt. Curran's point is the defense 'is what it is' -- specifically the secondary is what it is. Their ability to stop the opposing offense in crunch time is what it is. And this is something that must be given its proper weight in the decision making process. As such the offense cannot play 'prevent defense' (so to speak) in crunch time. And while TB was having his difficulties this game, I think after the first series the Patriots drove to the red zone every possession until mid fourth quarter (pretty sure about that). This tells me even with TB having a subpar game, the ability to move the ball outside the redzone was almost automatic (had to be 6 or 7 possessions in a row they ended up in the red zone). Yet the last few series starting mid fourth quarter resulted in no or 1 first downs. This can only be explained by either Seattle's defense did a complete turn around (they stepped up but to be shutdown all of a sudden?) OR the Patriots go away from what was getting it done between the 20s all game. IMHO it is(was) conspicuous that they are not doing what they were so effectively doing.
    Bottom line, the pass D is poor. The O is going to have to continue in attack mode if the PAtriots are going to put away teams THEY SHOULD be beating.
     
  5. patsfan-1982

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    i think its more then just "gag in crunch time" the offense realy cant run set plays at lest not at the level that they run the no huddle...but at the end of the day this loss is all on the secondary
     
  6. cstjohn17

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    No lead is safe with this secondary.
     
  7. marian

    marian Rookie

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    Problem is in Brady's head, once you get into his head, you win. You can do it before the game like the Jets used to do it some time ago, or with one negative play and some trash talking like yesterday. From the moment of first INT he started to throw into receivers feet and lost fun playing the game. He was frustrated and afraid, so played not to lose the game.
    It's not all on his shoulders obviously, coaches and secondary also are to blame, but right now it doesn't looke like offense can fight. They just execute. They are good oiled machine that executes, and once you interrupt the program, they don't know how to fight (except Welker). Then they turn to defense to win the game but it's the offence that should win games for us.
    We came to take what's ours (W) but it wasn't there. Seattle wanted it more and believed and got it.
     
  8. mosi

    mosi Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I tend to agree with this. Once he gets rattled, he is off his game. He can get it back but more often than not, it does not happen.
     
  9. serifyn

    serifyn Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Failing late is becoming part of this team's identity. Even against Denver the Broncos almost came all the way back, if not for a Mcgahee fumble.

    The Patriots are either not adjusting as the game progresses or are becoming mega conservative when they have a huge lead, putting games in the hands of the maligned secondary.

    Every year, a team develops an identity of certain strengths and weaknesses, a couple of years ago, Ball security was historically good and the defense which although porous, was incredible at forcing turnovers , last year, the red zone defense for the patriots was unbelievable, even with the last ranked secondary, so far this year, all the patriots seem to do well is give up huge leads and not play for 60 minutes.

    While the rush defense seems to be a bit better, and the patriots appear to be slightly better at forcing timely fumbles, i'm going to say this is the worst ive seen the Patriots defense play ever, and that does not bode well when the offense cant carry you like it has in the past.
     
  10. TheBostonStraggler

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    Actually there are leads safe with this secondary: (1) A lead that remains the same by adding to it or (2) leads where there isn't enough time for the opposition to get enough possessions. These are the leads that equal paths to victories for the Patriots. So how do we achieve these type leads? By allowing, arguably, the best offense in the league to do what it does best (and had been doing for 3+ quarters in this game).

    The O had their chances of putting this game away too. A stop by the D or a couple of first downs by the O -- either one puts this game away. The D is expected not to make the stops. They are playing up to what they are (poor). Our O didn't get the couple of first downs either.....and they played way below what is expected of them. So you can complain about the pass D all you want (and they deserve to be thought of as poor) but the O is the bread and butter of the Patriots. And if they produce 1 first down in 3 possessions in crunch time knowing the kind of D the Patriots have, this is just as much on them (and BB and co.).
     
  11. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    Definitely one of our achiles heels in the post dynasty era. Of course our awful pass D and inability to stop opposing offenses is another huge issue, but at least those ones are understandable looking at the personnel. At CB you have McCourty who may be a starting caliber CB and has been OK this year but still does get burnt quite a bit at the worst times. Dowling cannot get on the field for some reason and Dennard is also promising but both are largely unproven. The rest of the CB's are JAGS. Safety is an even bigger mess right now.

    But you look at the personnel on this offense and how they play before the 4th quarter, there is just no excuse for how poor they look in the clutch. They look worse than the Jets offense, just inexcusable. Is it fixable? Who knows. Execution is poor even from Brady who used to be one of the most clutch there is. The playcalling too I've noticed is quite predictable and uncreative in these moments. Where's the PAP, where's the quick screens? It seems like they either line up in an obvious run formation and run straight into a wall of defenders or they line up in shotgun and there's nowhere to throw. And like I said the execution - the drops, the poor reads from Brady not recognizing extra blitzers and throwing at WR's feet. What's worse is this is the time where the O has the advantage, defense is gassed and most vulnerable at this time.

    I was going to start a thread like this because I was curious myself. Normally, losses like the 3 we've had this year aren't always all bad because it could be a learning experience but how many times does it have to happen with this team. Baltimore and Seattle this year, last year's SB, last year's AFCC(until Cundiff bailed us out), SEVERAL games in 2009 where the offense completely stalled in the 2nd halves and we blew leads, 2006 AFCC, will it EVER be fixed? IS it fixable?
     
  12. Marqui

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    Not sure why you want this team to aspire to be the 2000 Colts.
     
  13. marian

    marian Rookie

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    We need to have good defence, I'm not saying we should be just offense. It's just that as it is now, we should do a little extra something on offense because we know defense is still work in progress. If you remember going against these Colts teams (great offense, no defense), you should remember that it was tough team to beat and caused us headaches, because you had that feeleing that Manning and co. didn't want to go away and fought hard till end. This team could be a better version of that (with the perssonel we have now), but currently they get softer as the game reaches 4th QTR.
     
  14. RhodyPatriot

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    An excellent post. You're absolutely spot on about Brady. Also love your observation on how this offense executes, they don't fight. When put in a situation where the choreographed timing offense breaks down and they have to fight to make plays they struggle. Very true.
    That's why a change in attitude, i.e. they're going to dictate at the O-line and incorporate a pound the ball with the run mentality within the framework of their passing attack is so necessary for this team.
    Brady is 35 years old and we've seen his best days....they're behind him.
    He's still a tremendous player but he can't carry the load the way he once could and they MUST recognize that and lighten the burden on him. Yesterday was a classic example.
    BTW part of the "run game" is the dink and dunk passing game. When is the last time Brady got over center and threw a 3 - 5 yd dart to ANYONE??? That used to be a standard play of theirs. Brady took a 1 step drop and fired a BB to one of his receivers coming off the line. It was very effective for them, kept the defense back on their heels and helped to move the chains. Gronk would be a natural for this since he's so tall. Never see it used anymore. Not sexy enough for this glitter and gold passing attack I guess.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  15. FCB02062

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    If the Patriots do not have a +2 or +3 turnover margin they have a hard time winning games. They have a hard time winning close games. Most of their wins are blowouts and most of their losses are close one possession games. Why? turnovers. This has been a garbage defense for a long time and the gaudy +/- has masked the ineptitude and suckitude of the Belichick defense post-Bill Polian competition committee. Look at the stats - just this season: Seattle even, loss; Baltimore +1, loss; Arizona +1, loss....Denver +2, win; Buffalo +4, win; Tennessee +2, win....So even with a +1 turnover differential this team cannot win games. Facts are freaking facts....so far in 2012 the New England Patriots need at least two extra offensive possessions to win games....that's terrible....
     
  16. BadMoFo

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    Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

    Brady not sharp when protecting leads? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    Closer to Chad Henne than Aaron Rodgers.

    I know we've blown a few 4th quarter leads, but didn't realize we had blown the third most since 2009. I remember the early days when we never blew halftime leads, more than 30 in a row at one point before a Monday nighter against the Dolphins. Man, we're so spoiled.
     
  17. IllegalContact

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    Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

    honestly, you have to have leads to blow them, but the methods to achieve this goal this year have been especially pathetic
     
  18. Deus Irae

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    Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

    1.) It's QBR, so it's meaningless.

    2.) Defenses generally blow leads, not offenses.

    3.) Counting 2009, the Patriots have only lost 14 regular season games in 3+ seasons, and 6 of them came in that 2009 year when Brady was still recovering from the ACL surgery.

    4.) It should come as no surprise that they're losing a "lot" of leads, because they're usually in the lead. That's what happens when you're an elite team with a powerful offense.
     
  19. BadMoFo

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    Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

    So are you saying, Brady has no part in this blame.
     
  20. FCB02062

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    Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

    OK, so couple that powerful offense with an average defense instead of the can't hold a lead defense we've had since 09 and there's two more Super Bowls in the case....period. end. of. story.
     
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