Corner - How Bad Is It?

[supafly]

I hate when CB's do that as well, looks desperate but if a player finds himself beat on a play is there any merit to that technique or is it completely frowned
upon in every situation?

Good question, man.

I really couldn't say which is worse, as I just am not qualified to have enough of an opinion. (6th grade CB experience just doesn't give me that right, lol)

It just seems as though if your job was to play CB, one of the things you'd be pretty good at is either keeping up with your man, or at least watching him to know when the ball is coming.

McCourty is an absolute unknown to me at this point. I can't tell if he's in a sophomore slump, or just maybe not that good overall...

If he somehow came around, we'd be in a decent position in the secondary for the first time all year. Ighedibo has been really coming around nicely, and Moore--even maybe Jones looks to be at least competent. The return of Chung will help of course too. And we all know what Arrington brings to the mix. If we could just get that aspect of the defense going, things would look much more positive.

At any rate, I expect that TFB will have to score in the high 20's/low 30's every game in the playoffs to have a chance. That said, I also expect them to be a lot more focused etc this yr. If they can get past that first damn game and get that pressure off, I think they'll really play a lot better/looser in the second..and that would lead to great stuff. I cannot see Belichick allowing them to lose 3 yrs in a row like that.

 

[robbomango]

Good question, man.

I really couldn't say which is worse, as I just am not qualified to have enough of an opinion. (6th grade CB experience just doesn't give me that right, lol)

It just seems as though if your job was to play CB, one of the things you'd be pretty good at is either keeping up with your man, or at least watching him to know when the ball is coming.

McCourty is an absolute unknown to me at this point. I can't tell if he's in a sophomore slump, or just maybe not that good overall...

If he somehow came around, we'd be in a decent position in the secondary for the first time all year. Ighedibo has been really coming around nicely, and Moore--even maybe Jones looks to be at least competent. The return of Chung will help of course too. And we all know what Arrington brings to the mix. If we could just get that aspect of the defense going, things would look much more positive.

At any rate, I expect that TFB will have to score in the high 20's/low 30's every game in the playoffs to have a chance. That said, I also expect them to be a lot more focused etc this yr. If they can get past that first damn game and get that pressure off, I think they'll really play a lot better/looser in the second..and that would lead to great stuff. I cannot see Belichick allowing them to lose 3 yrs in a row like that.

CB in 6th grade? more experience than I'va had, lol

Having a top 10 rush defense will get us a long way, if a team can run it on us, they're less likely to turn the ball over and also kill more clock with short yardage gains keeping our offense off the field.

It's a higher priority than pass D I have to imagine, not giving up the big play and redzone D as well. Pass yards allowed doesn't look high on BB's list if there's going to be a sacrifice. why not an make it an area that forces teams into a passing game playing into our strengths.

A shoot out with TB and this offense gives us good odds so I'm not worried to much about the secondary at this time. hopefully they can tighten up coming down the stretch and be ready for the play offs.

 

[supafly]

CB in 6th grade? more experience than I'va had, lol

Having a top 10 rush defense will get us a long way, if a team can run it on us, they're less likely to turn the ball over and also kill more clock with short yardage gains keeping our offense off the field.

It's a higher priority than pass D I have to imagine, not giving up the big play and redzone D as well. Pass yards allowed doesn't look high on BB's list if there's going to be a sacrifice. why not an make it an area that forces teams into a passing game playing into our strengths.

A shoot out with TB and this offense gives us good odds so I'm not worried to much about the secondary at this time. hopefully they can tighten up coming down the stretch and be ready for the play offs.

Yes, no doubt. All very good points. I am still a bit leery of the rush defense, even though they have held their own and done well. I just hope that a team like Houston, Denver, or god forbid...Baltimore gets the same results as the others. I still have nightmares of Ray Rice, and the HOU rush attack is formidable to say the least.

You're right, it's those kinds of teams that would suck up clock, limit TFB's possessions, and keep the score a lot closer. As long as the rush defense keeps it up, the worries about the pass defense should be limited.

 

[pdangle]

I would love to see someone who knows what they are doing analyze the all-22 of McCourty this year vs last.

Seriously WTF? Injured, slump, alignment, lockout, personal, family? Anyone been following his twitter (if has one)? I'm at a loss even partially explain it. But it seems BB isn't too worried, so that might imply something possibly, or are we just so hard pressed for skill it means little.

Or is BB leaving him on an defensive island gameplan and therefor OK with his high QBR against and crispy-like play this year? I mean, if he's had safety help over the top all year, he'd of been kicked to the curb already no?

 

[Patjew]

As bad as this group is, it's far better than our 2004 CB group that won a SB.

I disagree with that. Gay and Samuel were OK. Plus Rodney kept everything together that year. I like Chung but he's no 37.

 

[IllegalContact]

corner is not that bad........they should not be judged based on the weaknesses of the front 7. more consistent pressure on the QB would make these guys look like heroes......a guy off the street can make anyone look bad if given enough time

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I would love to see someone who knows what they are doing analyze the all-22 of McCourty this year vs last.

Seriously WTF? Injured, slump, alignment, lockout, personal, family? Anyone been following his twitter (if has one)? I'm at a loss even partially explain it. But it seems BB isn't too worried, so that might imply something possibly, or are we just so hard pressed for skill it means little.

Or is BB leaving him on an defensive island gameplan and therefor OK with his high QBR against and crispy-like play this year? I mean, if he's had safety help over the top all year, he'd of been kicked to the curb already no?

Wrong has a piece up on the Herald website where he asked Ronnie Lippett to analyze McCourty's sophomore season slump. He says it's a matter of the player becoming indecisive and passive, torn between doing what came instinctively and trying to do what the coaches are asking him to. That eventually results in a player who doesn't do anything well.

He says it's not about McCourty ignoring or tuning out his coaching (ala Merriweather who had bad instincts to boot), it's about trusting what got you here while being cognizant of what the scheme is attempting to accomplish. I think it may well be that a lot of his struggles are related to coaching and what is going on within the secondary. Asante Samuel played like crap in 2005 and into 2006 when this secondary was dealing with talent and injury issues and coaching changes. Who is coaching our DB's anyway...oh yeah, a guy from the SD School of Mines and Technology as Felger keeps reminding me. Perhaps he has a point.

You don't coach elite talents and street FA jags you're trying to plug in to perform in similar fashion... Otherwise you end up coaching down your more talented players in an effort to coach up your lesser talented ones. I think that's happened a lot with Mayo, too over the last year or so. Lack of talent and injury issues leads to ultra conservative coaching and game planning. Players become overly concerned with making a mistake and those who otherwise could end up not making plays they should. Then they start to press...and it often just gets worse.

Bill is big on accountability. Judging the way things have gone developmentally in that secondary over the last 3-4 seasons I think he needs to take a hard look at position coaching.

 

[Triumph]

The Pats need to draft another CB with a high pick next draft.

DB is the most decimated area in terms of injuries for the Pats every season.

Talk about a Jekyll and Hyde performance in McCourtys play comparing 2010 to 2011. 2010 he had 17 passes defensed, 7 ints, 1 sack and 2 forced fumbles. 2011 (to date) he has 3 passes defensed, 0 ints, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles. Football | NFL | Player Stats - Devin McCourty - New England Patriots - washingtonpost.com Holy Moly!

Its a shame that McCourty is struggling, but he needs to snap out of it or go the way of Wilhite and Butler after next season if his troubles continue.
Imo, just turning and looking for the ball would make a night and day difference in McCourtys play. More often than not, hes right there with the WR, so its not like hes totally out of position faked out of his shoes. It seems like if McCourty got the first INT this season others would follow.

 

[IllegalContact]

The Pats need to draft another CB with a high pick next draft.

DB is the most decimated area in terms of injuries for the Pats every season.

Talk about a Jekyll and Hyde performance in McCourtys play comparing 2010 to 2011. 2010 he had 17 passes defensed, 7 ints, 1 sack and 2 forced fumbles. 2011 (to date) he has 3 passes defensed, 0 ints, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles. Football | NFL | Player Stats - Devin McCourty - New England Patriots - washingtonpost.com Holy Moly!

Its a shame that McCourty is struggling, but he needs to snap out of it or go the way of Wilhite and Butler after next season if his troubles continue.
Imo, just turning and looking for the ball would make a night and day difference in McCourtys play. More often than not, hes right there with the WR, so its not like hes totally out of position faked out of his shoes. It seems like if McCourty got the first INT this season others would follow.

more than anything, this team needs LB's

 

[borg]

Coming into the season, McCourty was a bonafied, no worries stud...in managements mind. Unfortunately for the ENTIRE defense, his demise and atrocious play has caused a snowball effect....pass rush, scheme all getting wiggly because of his collapse. Expect a CB and S to be drafted again by round #2

 

[randomk1]

As bad as this group is, it's far better than our 2004 CB group that won a SB. Question is can our pass rush be consistent enough to mask the potential weakness at #3 CB and FS.

Behind an offense that could run the ball down the other D's throats and a front 7(+rodney) to make the D good enough to be #2 in points allowed.

 

[SyN65]

It's bad. Really bad.

Arrington/Chung are alright.

Molden/Adams/Brown/Moore shouldn't be on an NFL team.

McCourty is looking like a one hit wonder, hopefully this is a sophmore slump.

Dowling is made of glass, he looked good when he was out there though.

...and to top it off we have two receivers playing DB.

As soon as this team plays a competent NFL team with a decent QB, they're going to dominate this secondary and it'll get exposed for what it really is.

It sucks because we've invested SO much into this secondary and we've actually regressed. It's almost mind blowing to think about.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Coming into the season, McCourty was a bonafied, no worries stud...in managements mind. Unfortunately for the ENTIRE defense, his demise and atrocious play has caused a snowball effect....pass rush, scheme all getting wiggly because of his collapse. Expect a CB and S to be drafted again by round #2

I think that's a pretty myopic overview of what has transpired here since last season. Management likely felt that McCourty and Bodden were bonefide stud starting corners, but before camp opened they must have had some other concerns that led them to draft another corner and sign every veteran passrusher they could on the cheap and switch the scheme to a base 4-3 in an effort to generate a pass rush... That Dowling landed on IR and Chung has missed a huge chunk of the season after they opted to move on from Merriweather and Sanders and Haynesworth proved a leopard doesn't change it's spots and Ellis revealed his best days were behind him and Spikes took up residence on the injury report...it's been like a ST scramble on defense and that is what has caused a snowball effect. And when they don't get any kind of pressure on the opposing QB, even a JAG is gonna make some plays. And even Darrell Revis can attest to that - and he's playing in a lot more talented secondary. Then there is the whole issue of whether your offense can play complimentary football and keep their offense off the field knowing you struggle at times to get them off the field on defense...

Yup, it's all McCourty's fault.

 

[Lurks_All_Day]

Can you provide any evidence to support your contention that McCourty has been a "solid starter" this year?

Well, we could take a lesson from the Dunce Brigade at "jest inside her" message boards and point to last year's performance while ignoring the current state of affairs.

 

[Garbanza]

The secondary is really bad. The numbers don't lie. The Pats HAVE to have a consistent pass rush if they hope to win a playoff game this season. That and Brady & Co putting up a lot of points. That's the truth, people. Sad, but true.

 

[borg]

I think that's a pretty myopic overview of what has transpired here since last season. Management likely felt that McCourty and Bodden were bonefide stud starting corners, but before camp opened they must have had some other concerns that led them to draft another corner and sign every veteran passrusher they could on the cheap and switch the scheme to a base 4-3 in an effort to generate a pass rush... That Dowling landed on IR and Chung has missed a huge chunk of the season after they opted to move on from Merriweather and Sanders and Haynesworth proved a leopard doesn't change it's spots and Ellis revealed his best days were behind him and Spikes took up residence on the injury report...it's been like a ST scramble on defense and that is what has caused a snowball effect. And when they don't get any kind of pressure on the opposing QB, even a JAG is gonna make some plays. And even Darrell Revis can attest to that - and he's playing in a lot more talented secondary. Then there is the whole issue of whether your offense can play complimentary football and keep their offense off the field knowing you struggle at times to get them off the field on defense...

Yup, it's all McCourty's fault.

Why would a QB worry about a pass rush....just locate McCourty presnap, hike the ball, and fire it to McCourty's guy....This is what is happening. Instead of needing time to locate a 2nd WR...boom. McCourty's sucktitude affects the pass rush. The interesting thing is there is little safety help for him....maybe a commentary on the ineptitude of the new S group. More likely that offenses keep McCourty near the sidelines where safety help will be late ....their preferable matchup.

 

[Garbanza]

Why would a QB worry about a pass rush....just locate McCourty presnap, hike the ball, and fire it to McCourty's guy....This is what is happening. Instead of needing time to locate a 2nd WR...boom. McCourty's sucktitude affects the pass rush. The interesting thing is there is little safety help for him....maybe a commentary on the ineptitude of the new S group. More likely that offenses keep McCourty near the sidelines where safety help will be late ....their preferable matchup.

The safeties are worse than the corners. Seriously, could be the worst safety group in the league.

 

[JackBauer]

Assuming some major caveats (McCourty plays like McCourty and we actually get a pass rush), I don't think our CB situation is particularly dire.

The safeties are pretty bad, but at full strength could improve to serviceable, depending on whether Moore is legit or not.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

New Orleans, Green Bay, and New England are 30/31/32 in pass defense.

 

[NEP4Life]

Maybe Bb can experiment with some 11 db coverages? He's an innovator!