CJ Spiller

[FoxboroFlyer]

I don't think Spiller is CJ at all. He is like Chris Johnson meets Reggie Bush. He's unique and he could replace Faulk.

I don't think Spiller even deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Johnson. Are you kidding me? You're willing to waste at least 2 picks (probably more) for a guy who is a return specialist/change of pace back?
That's crazy! Go at look at some film of Ingram, and then you'll see what a true 1st round RB is. I might not be a rocket scientist, but I can certainly differenciate a specialist from a TRUE RB. The best thing for this team this year is to ride it out with bascally what we have (with the exception of middle round back) and wait until next year when the true FEATURE back(s) is available.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

I don't think Spiller even deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Johnson. Are you kidding me? You're willing to waste at least 2 picks (probably more) for a guy who is a return specialist/change of pace back?
That's crazy! Go at look at some film of Ingram, and then you'll see what a true 1st round RB is. I might not be a rocket scientist, but I can certainly differenciate a specialist from a TRUE RB. The best thing for this team this year is to ride it out with bascally what we have (with the exception of middle round back) and wait until next year when the true FEATURE back(s) is available.

No dude, I'm not kidding you. And like I said, I don't think that hes like Chris Johnson at all. He's fast and explosive like CJ but is different. I like fast RBs I said. And this is about if he were to slide to 22 for some odd reason. I don't want to trade up for him.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

No dude, I'm not kidding you. And like I said, I don't think that hes like Chris Johnson at all. He's fast and explosive like CJ but is different. I like fast RBs I said. And this is about if he were to slide to 22 for some odd reason. I don't want to trade up for him.

Either way there is way more pressing needs than RB, with the 1st pick.

Mark Ingram is the guy...Next year.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Either way there is way more pressing needs than RB, with the 1st pick.

Mark Ingram is the guy...Next year.

Yea man, I hope we can get Ingram next year. The guys a beast of a RB from what I've seen.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Lets have a look at the highly touted RBs in recent times.

Reggie Bush - Fail

How is Bush a fail? He is the best pass catching RB in the NFL and played key roles in the Saints playoff run and Superbowl championship.

Darren McFadden - Fail

No, the ENTIRE Oakland team is a fail. Nobody could run behind that offensive line either.

Marshawn Lynch - Fail

Yeah, starting your career off with 2 straight 1,000 yard seaons is utter fail. Not. If that is utterly fail. What does that make Maroney who has NEVER even gotten to 1,000 yards? Lynch was a knucklehead off the field and declined in 2009 but he has produced more than Maroney ever has.
Marshawn Lynch NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Adrian Peterson - Success

Yeah, the best all around RB in the entire NFL today is only a 'success'. Weird standards you have.
Adrian Peterson NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Jonathon Stewart - Average starter

That's ALL? He has gotten better every year, notched over 1,100 yards last season, and has a way higher career YPC (4.9) than Lomo. Maroney can't even carry Stewart's jock. What rosey colored glasses we wear.
Jonathan Stewart NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Felix Jones - Good when fit

If he weren't made of glass like Lomo, he'd be considered one of the more explosive backs in the NFL with that ypc. However his low number of touches inflates that statistic.
Felix Jones NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Rashard Mendenhall - Jury still out

Ok, did you even watch the kid play this season? Jury is NOT out unless he goes out and blows his knee tomorrow. 1,100+ yards with a 4.6 ypc and 250+ yards receiving. This guy is the Steelers feature back for the forseeable future.
Rashard Mendenhall NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Chris Johnson - Success

Yeah, 2000+ yards and he's merely a 'success'. *YAWN* ARe you out of your MIND? Chris Johnson is one of the fastest, most electric runningbacks to enter the NFL in recent memory. He CHANGES games with his speed. There's no way Vince Young turns around the Titans 'Titanic' swoon, without having a monster like this to hand the ball off to.
Chris Johnson NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Knowshawn Moreno - Jury still out
Donald Brown - Jury still out
Beanie Wells - Jury still out

For this group, I agree for once. Too early to tell. They could be good, they could be busts.

Lawrence Maroney - Average starter

He's the worst HB drafted in the first 2 rounds of the 2006 NFL draft. PERIOD. His numbers are below mediocre and he's developed fumbling problems to boot. As a 3rd or 4th string guy, I don't mind him. But he's not a STARTER worthy HB in the NFL. There's no way a sub 800 yard per season back is even worth considering an AVERAGE NFL RB, and those are counting only his relatively healthy years.
Laurence Maroney NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

DeAngelo Williams - Star

He's a very good player, but not better than Peterson or Chris Johnson. I don't see how you can say he is the only star of this whole list of NFL runningbacks. Actually, I don't understand most of your evaluations in light of the numbers.
DeAngelo Williams NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Joseph Addai - Average starter

Two solid 1,000 yard seasons to start his career, followed by decline, followed by a slight bounce back year. Are you sure his career doesn't look more like that of Marshawn Lynch who you labeled as FAIL?
Joseph Addai NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

I said Bush wouldn't be all that in the NFL. I said that Lynch wouldn't be all that in the NFL. I thought McFadden would be huge but I was wrong. I wasn't sold on Lynch either but I liked Peterson but didn't expect him to do what he has done to this point.

Bush is the best receiving back in the NFL and he helped his team to a championship. He's not Adrian Peterson, obviously, but he has unique talents that creates mismatches on the field. I suppose based on the way that you evaluated Bush, that you think Percy Harvin must be GARBAGE as well.

You've given Maroney WAY more rope than McFadden, and Maroney isn't stuck on one of the WORST RUN organizations in the NFL.

Lynch at least did something his first two years. His last season was unimpressive, but he might have a bounceback year like Addai (unless he ends up in jail).

The Vikings obviously expected a lot out of Peterson when they invested a #7 overall pick, and they were right.

Given your track record of RB evaluations as evidenced in your post, excuse me if I don't put much weight in your advice on which RBs will be successful from the 2010 draft.

And no, I don't want to trade up for a RB. And yes, I think Spiller can be very successful in the right system - he's a mix of Percy Harvin and a Felix Jones who isn't made out of glass. In short, he's going to be a real offensive weapon in the NFL. I only pray he doesn't end up stuck on the Raiders.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

My favorite player in college for the past 3 years, Spiller is an intriguing option because he helps in the running game, passing game, and return game. He'd be the perfect replacement for Faulk and could also take 15 carries per game. A guy that explosive is definitely worth consideration at 22.

I've thought this offense lacked a 3rd explosive playmaker, and that's why I wanted Harvin at #23 last year. Tate was a nice consolation prize in the 3rd. Unfortunately, Harvin was taken a pick before us and we struggled to find a 3rd weapon on offense all season. Spiller, although not a WR, is an explosive playmaker who can make big plays, is a homerun hitter, and would make the Pats offense even more dynamic, especially with how much NE relies on its RB's in the passing game.

RB's are a dime a dozen and that's why the Ingram talk for 2011 is something I am not a fan of at all. You can find guys in the mid to late rounds to be an effective RB if you have a good O-line. However, a gamebreaker like Spiller is a RB you have to consider in the first round just because of his explosiveness and his versatility. I'm all for Spiller in the first if he slides or Best in the 2nd, but there is no way I'd waste a potential top 10 pick on Ingram in 2011. I'd much rather use that on a WR to replace Moss (Green, Jones, Baldwin, Floyd) or a shutdown CB (Peterson).

 

[eagle eye]

And no, I don't want to trade up for a RB. And yes, I think Spiller can be very successful in the right system - he's a mix of Percy Harvin and a Felix Jones who isn't made out of glass. In short, he's going to be a real offensive weapon in the NFL. I only pray he doesn't end up stuck on the Raiders.

I meant to change Peterson and Johnson to star just to clear that up.

As for Bush, he is injury prone and is only a jag. Marshawn Lynch both on and off the field last season was a major fail and his career will be over very shortly, if you are happy to call somebody a success with two semi-decent years as a feature back, well then we'll just have to disagree. Jonathon Stewart does ok because of the threat of DeAngelo Williams but he will never be a feature back and he has only scored 1 td in two years.

What amazes me is you utter disdain for LoMo and you make a big deal out of his 4 fumbles last season.

Jonathon Stewart had 3 but you want to cover him in glory
Marshawn Lynch had 3 and yet again you want want to rave about him
Felix Jones had 3 too.
Same with Rashard Mendenhall, and on Mendenhall, the jury is still out. One season does not make or break a career, same as his first season where he was injured.
Chris Johnson had 4 fumbles.
DeAngelo Williams had 3.
And AP had 7 in the regular season alone.

I also find it amazing that you 'just happened' to forget to put up stats for Darren McFadden and Reggie Bush but then again they don't look good do they?
And fyi Reggie Bush had 4 fumbles and Darren McFadden had 5.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

How is Bush a fail? He is the best pass catching RB in the NFL and played key roles in the Saints playoff run and Superbowl championship.

Bush has only 'failed' at becoming the HOF player everyone thought he would be when he was drafted.

JMO- It is all about perception, he has not played up to his draft status/contract, therefore some see him as a 'failure'. If he had been picked with the 2nd pick in second round, most people would perceive his production much differently.

This is why most people don't want to draft a scat-back/kick-return type player in the first round.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Either way there is way more pressing needs than RB, with the 1st pick.

Mark Ingram is the guy...Next year.

We're going to need the #1 pick in the draft to get Mark Ingram, or have #3 and pray the teams above have great backs.

What if Mark Ingram wins the Heisman again He'll be the most hyped college back ever. I think he's the next superstar in the nfl, so hope the Raiders go 3-13 and not 6-10.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

We're going to need the #1 pick in the draft to get Mark Ingram, or have #3 and pray the teams above have great backs.

What if Mark Ingram wins the Heisman again He'll be the most hyped college back ever. I think he's the next superstar in the nfl, so hope the Raiders go 3-13 and not 6-10.

I think this guy is going to be better than AP. I have no idea how anyone can honestly say they would prefer Spiller over Ingram. RB's with Ingram's abilities are extremely rare, and when you have a chance to get one, you jump on the opportunity(IMO).

 

[Ochmed Jones]

We're going to need the #1 pick in the draft to get Mark Ingram, or have #3 and pray the teams above have great backs.

What if Mark Ingram wins the Heisman again He'll be the most hyped college back ever. I think he's the next superstar in the nfl, so hope the Raiders go 3-13 and not 6-10.

I think the QB from Washington is going #1 next year. Ingram is not a 4.4 burner,he gets caught from behind by a lot of people. He is only going to run in the 4.5 - 4.6 range. Plus he is going to split carries with Richardson, so he won't have the gaudy stats.

Bottom line: he is a first rounder, but a top 5 pick is a stretch.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think the QB from Washington is going #1 next year. Ingram is not a 4.4 burner,he gets caught from behind by a lot of people. He is only going to run in the 4.5 - 4.6 range. Plus he is going to split carries with Richardson, so he won't have the gaudy stats.

Bottom line: he is a first rounder, but a top 5 pick is a stretch.

If he was eligible to come out this year, where do you think he would of gone? I think he would've been the #1 rated back above Spiller.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

If he was eligible to come out this year, where do you think he would of gone? I think he would've been the #1 rated back above Spiller.

I agree, but they each have different skill sets. Spiller has the versatility, while Ingram is more of a traditional smash mouth runner.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[cstjohn17]

Ok, so I have been a huge fan of explosive/fast running backs ever since Chris Johnson set foot on the football field. I still like a Corey Dillon type guy a lot too but lately I have been wanting the pats to grab a guy like Spiller. Is there any chance come April 22nd that he could be our guy? Would BB even consider trading up a couple spots if he slides? I would be pretty psyched if Spiller slipped to 22. I also realize that there may be better gambles on RBs later in the draft. What do you guys think?

Please refer to the NFL Draft Rule Book, see rule 1,237, 487 subsection 37, paragraph B:

"RBs by nature are expendable (much like the dude in StarTrek who you know is going to die). No RB (outside an Adrian Peterson type talent) should be taken in the first round. They are a dime a dozen. Furthermore...."

 

[spacecrime]

Spiller returned like 5 kick offs for touchdowns out of like 30 somthing kick offs. That is really impressive. He is a good player for sure. He would be a good addition to our offense considering we have 3 old RBs (Morris, Faulk, Taylor).

Means nothing. Maroney was a better kick off returner in college than Spiller.

 

[spacecrime]

You're cowardly. It's as much my team as yours. Probably more if measured by length of fandom.

You couldn't have been a fan longer, as I switched from being a Giants fan to a Boston Patriots fan. I have an old Bay State Patriots schedule somewhere in the house, next to my CGMI Field schedule. You would have had to have been a fan since day one and I sincerely doubt you have. But that is irrelevant. It isn't the length of time that makes a fan, but love of the team.

But why am I cowardly for calling you out? I am open with my opinion of trolls. Cowardly is the last word I would apply to me. Over-aggressive is a fair criticism, not sneaky.

If you are a long time fan as you claim, you would have suffered through some seriously bad teams and this would see this team as awesome by comparison. The trouble with success is that a lot of people became fans when the Pats were on top a few years ago and see anything less than a superbowl victory as a failure. We all want them to win the superbowl, but most fans realize that it is't possible and are happy to celebrate the success the Pats have.

That's what confounds most fans: how can some people complain so much about a team that has done better than EVERY OTHER team this decade, and are primed for another run. The "holes" they go beserk over on the Pats are nothing compared to the holes on most other teams. Not understanding some moves the pats make is one thing. Carping and whining about every single move they make, criticizing them for things that they praise other teams for. Like you. You said that the Pats cannot run the ball and that Superman couldn't run behind our line. Yet the Pats were 12th in the league in rushing last year. What does that mean? It mean that you are looking for anything you can to criticize the Pats, and will not let facts get in the way of your citicism.

I am critical of the team but at times it needs criticism.

Yes, sometimes they need it, but you are so over the top, and NEVER have a good word to say, it is easy to view you as one of those dorky social misfits that sign onto other teams websites and pretend to be fans in order to criticize them "from within." I know some pats fans do it on Jets and Colts sites, and it is just as wrong. It's cowardly, and if you are really a fan of another team, then if the shoe fits...

 

[VJCPatriot]

What amazes me is you utter disdain for LoMo and you make a big deal out of his 4 fumbles last season.

Did all those other Runningbacks make their fumbles near the goalline and get benched by their coach? The fumbelitis is concerning because it appears to be 'in his head'.
I'm not sure Maroney can fix that if it's a mental thing. Does he have a fragile mind as well as a fragile body? BTW I also disagree on your evaluations on most or all of the RBs you have listed. I just don't wish to rehash the same points again.

I also find it amazing that you 'just happened' to forget to put up stats for Darren McFadden and Reggie Bush but then again they don't look good do they?
And fyi Reggie Bush had 4 fumbles and Darren McFadden had 5.

Here you go.

Reggie Bush - I challenge you to find a SINGLE NFL RB who has had more receptions over the past 4 years. My point still stands - he has been the BEST pass catching RB in the NFL. You may VALUE that pass catching ability as garbage and I disagree, but factually speaking, it was VALUABLE enough to help propel the Saints to an NFL Championship. And PUH-leez, you can hardly use the durability argument against Bush when 'your BOY' the Glassman Maroney has missed way more games to injury in the same timespan.
Reggie Bush NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

McFadden - He has been misused by Oakland coaching staff (Lane Kiffin, now FIRED, was a terrible playcaller) and is on the worst run teams in the NFL (Hello Crazy Al!). True or False? True. He's only been in the league 2 years and has a horrible offensive line to run behind. True or False? True. McFadden might end up being a bust, but he hasn't had half the opportunities, coaching, or environment that Maroney has had. And Maroney has only managed to be less than mediocre and injury prone in his FOUR seasons with the Pats.
Darren McFadden NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[serifyn]

success in the running game is more dependant on the offensive line and the tight ends than the runningback himself, a hole opens up and the RB has to run through it, belichick himself has said that he thinks maroney and the rest of his runningbacks are doing a well enough job, its the line who isnt opening up big enough holes, this probably isnt going to change, especially with just 1 guy.

CJ spiller would be a great addition to the patriots, but because of his ability to run outside and catch screens, but the reason why Chris Johnson is so good is because of his O-line which is built for strength in the run.game.

while CJ spiller could legitimately turn into chris johnson on a team with an O-line built for the run, that isnt this team, our O-line is concerned primarily with protecting tom brady and last year he took less sacks than he has in his career.

CJ spiller may be available at 22, but there are much greater needs for this team at DL and OLB.

 

[mcmurtry86]

He's the worst HB drafted in the first 2 rounds of the 2006 NFL draft. PERIOD. His numbers are below mediocre and he's developed fumbling problems to boot. As a 3rd or 4th string guy, I don't mind him. But he's not a STARTER worthy HB in the NFL. There's no way a sub 800 yard per season back is even worth considering an AVERAGE NFL RB, and those are counting only his relatively healthy years.
Laurence Maroney NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Just so I'm clear on this....Maroney is worse than LenDale White?

Maroney:

45 GP 582 carries 2430 yards 4.2 avg 21 TD 40 Receptions 409 yards 5 fumbles (1 fumble every 116 carries although 1 of those 5 was on a reception not a carry)

White:

68 GP 628 carries 2349 yards 3.7 Avg 24 TD 42 receptions 204 yards 7 fumbles (1 every 89 carries)

Maybe you prefer White because he's been more durable, but by most metrics he is equal or worse than Maroney. Throw in Maroney's decent kick returning (nothing great but average or slightly better), and I don't see how it is clear that he is worse than White.

Also, he's "developing fumbling problems" is kind of funny. He had 2 really bad inopportune fumbles, it happens. Do you think Adrian Peterson is "mentally fragile" because he has a bad case of fumblitis (in the playoffs as well)? What about Tiki Barber? Was he mentally fragile? He had awful fumble problems early in his career.

Just for comparisons sake, here's some running backs and their career fumble rate:

Emmitt Smith: 1 every 81 carries, maximum 7 fumbles in 1995
Marshall Faulk: 1 every 79 carries, maximum 8 in 1995
Barry Sanders: 1 every 113 carries, maximum 6 in 1992
Corey Dillon: 1 every 93 carries, maximum 5 (in 3 seasons)
Tiki Barber: 1 every 42 carries, maximum 9 (in 3 seasons)
Antowain Smith: 1 every 71 carries, maximum 5 in 1998
Kevin Faulk: 1 every 76 carries, maximum 6 in 2000

Now obviously Maroney isn't anywhere near as good as most of those guys, but the "Maroney has fumbling problems" canard exists solely because he coughed it up at the worst time imaginable. There's nothing in his college or pro career which indicates that he has problems holding onto the ball. If anything, he does a better job holding onto it than many backs.

I don't particularly like Maroney, and wouldn't mind if they replaced him, but the irrational hate he gets (probably due to those bad fumbles or his inability to live up to the 1st round draft status) is ridiculous. He is what he is, an adequate #2 back in a 2 back system who still has some upside. He most likely will never be a Pro Bowl guy, and maybe never a full time feature back (not many of those these days anyway), but to call him "3rd or 4th string" is way over the top. BenJarvus Green-Ellis is a 4th stringer. Patrick Pass was a 4th stringer (as a RB instead of FB). Laurence Maroney is at worst a #2 back, and most likely a #1B. A guy you can certainly upgrade from, but he's not a bad player as much as the anti-Maroney crowd wants to think so.

 

[SyN65]

If Spiller was there at 22 (he won't), this team would be stupid not to take him.