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CBS's Mike Freeman: "Deal will be reached within matter of days"


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Not politics? This is 95% politics. The Players and Owners are fighting over public opinion. They're fighting through the media and with strategic leaks from each side. They're fighting in the courts. This is politics at its best or worst, depending on your perspective.

It doesn't matter whether the argument's been going on for 2000 years or 60 years, the emotions are intense and the stakes, as perceived by the participants, are very high. You bet it's politics.

I'm sorry- it's greed, pure and simple. Not political.
 
I don't have time to answer the others now, but I will answer this.

First, I am talking what you been asking for a while now not just this thread. You constantly ask for proof of a negative impact of the economy or over the last few years.

Second, you obviously didn;t look hard to try to find proof of teams buying tickets to avoid the lockout:

Both the Giants and Jets bought tickets although how many we don't know (and don't say they just promised to because both had over 12k season left available with less than a week to go before the game and it doubtful either sold every ticket):

Owner will buy tickets to avoid Jets' blackout - NYPOST.com

The Bengals bought tickets:



Blackout lifted for Dolphins game | Bengals Blog

The Rams did it in 2009

Rams buy tickets to avoid blackout - NFC West Blog - ESPN

The Bucs did in 2009, but lied about and said they didn't until they finally came clean in 2010

Bucs finally admit they bought unsold tickets in 2009 | ProFootballTalk

This is also evidence that teams do not want to admit when they engage in this practice.

Lastly, I didn't say it was widespread. I said it happens. I didn't say it happens every week. I didn't say every team does it. But it does happen. I found four examples in the last two seasons.

Great! This is exactly the kind of stuff I was asking for.
 
Politics is the art of compromising; greed isn't.

so, you're suggesting there won't be any compromising between players and owners and therefore no settlement?
 
so, you're suggesting there won't be any compromising between players and owners and therefore no settlement?

I'm only defining why I think politics and greed aren't the same thing. Whether there is a new CBA or not, is not up to me.
 
They better reach a deal soon as this is getting ridiculous.

Last night I was talking with my father and brother about free agent moves that should be made in the offseason. The kicker is we were talking about the Bruins and Celtics. Gotta get a big man that can stay on the court and hope the big four can stay healthy. Bruins have some 10 mil in cap space and should be wise in how they use it to make sure they care of the youth so this thing can stay together. No Pats talk because damn it there is nothing to talk about and it is almost July when we are itching the most for TC to finally come already.
-end rant-​
 
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They better reach a deal soon as this is getting ridiculous.

Last night I was talking with my father and brother about free agent moves that should be made in the offseason. The kicker is we were talking about the Bruins and Celtics. Gotta get a big man that can stay on the court and hope the big four can stay healthy. Bruins have some 10 mil in cap space and should be wise in how they use it to make sure they care of the youth so this thing can stay together. No Pats talk because damn it there is nothing to talk about and it is almost July when we are itching the most for TC to finally come already.
-end rant-​

What's the point of talking about the Celtics? The problems in the NBA labor negotiations will likely dwarf what we've seen in the NFL.
 
They better reach a deal soon as this is getting ridiculous.

Last night I was talking with my father and brother about free agent moves that should be made in the offseason. The kicker is we were talking about the Bruins and Celtics. Gotta get a big man that can stay on the court and hope the big four can stay healthy. Bruins have some 10 mil in cap space and should be wise in how they use it to make sure they care of the youth so this thing can stay together. No Pats talk because damn it there is nothing to talk about and it is almost July when we are itching the most for TC to finally come already.
-end rant-​

Someone needs to explain this hockey game thinge to me. Yah, my ancestors were kicked outa Canader but the hockey gene thing misfired in me. Bluelines, offsides and the business of teams having more guys skating than the other guys, WTF?
 
I'm sorry- it's greed, pure and simple. Not political.
I agree that it is money motivated, but I disagree with the term 'greed'.
Both sides are protecting their livlihood. I think greed is a very strong word for that. I don't consider myself greedy when I negotiate my pay.
 
I think it's very important for everyone to understand the driving principles behind the subprime crisis, because although the crisis itself has subsided, the means and motivation that led to it hasn't changed one bit.

Deregulation had a strong role in the latter stage of the housing crisis bubble. For example, the Glass-Steagall Act was enacted after the Great Depression to separate commercial banks and investment banks, in part to avoid potential conflicts of interest between the lending activities of the former and rating activities of the latter. This is where the MBS's and CDO's come in in the dangerous link between ordinary banking and Wall Street speculation, in the form of credit ratings that allowed those MBS's and CDO's to perpetuate.

A key component of understanding the crisis- is to understand that as the real estate market became the next "hot" thing after the tech bubble burst, the price of property started to rise out of the reach of ordinary buyers, so Wall Street comes up with newfangled financial ingenuity to answer this, such as the mortgage-backed security (MBS) and collateralized debt obligation (CDO), that get assigned "safe ratings." Investors buy those securities under the pretense that they are "safe investments," the mortgage giants are injected with more cash (with which they treat with even more recklessness), through Wall Street, which they loan out to people with questionable assets and credit rating (since they've run out of good people to loan to), that's where the subprime crisis starts. The credit-rating agencies were very complicit in the collapse of the market.

To oversimplify- this is a fancy term for 'leveraging' and 're-leveraging.' Through financial innovation, Wall Street tried to sustain the boom to keep making money off it, but that made the crash even worse as it sucked up more and more money from ordinary investors.

Banks are like ordinary people in that they invest with the money we store in them, with one exception. We are not allowed to invest speculatively to the extent that they do, we are not given the same type of overreaching loans that are given to them on their terms. For us to invest speculatively on the scale that they do, is the equivalent of an ordinary family, betting short on, or taking out a loan on a Gulfstream Jet.

We have actually emerged from the crisis in worse shape than before, and are in position to create even bigger bubbles in the future because none of the de-regulations have been "re-regulated" and the means by which the exorbitant leveraging operate (the "Gulfstream Jet" example here) have not been outlawed, like they were after the Great Depression. Big banks came out even stronger, and smaller banks went under. Those big banks are leveraged even worse than before.

So to get back to the point via the long way- to say the mortgage companies failed is misleading- they were just the middlemen, even partners in crime, who eventually got manipulated by Wall Street "ingenuity." In other words, Wall Street simply jumped on the real estate wagon and rode it into the ground with their "financial ingenuities" which are even more complicated and convoluted than ever.

Just as the next bubble/burst is not going to be because of the specific market that got exploited way beyond its means to sustain, but because of the unchecked principles behind it.

Actually the basis for the subprime meltdown was an explosion of lenders who continued to loosen lending guidelines, well beyond the point where they knew they were not sound. This was because they were chasing volume of business, and had no real concern in staying in business. These lenders owned the loans for weeks, not years. Wall Street packaged them in a shady fashion, which provided the funds for the race to make the most loans before the problems caught up.
Mortgage lending historically has been based on somewhat stringent guidelines, with exception to some allowed based upon compensating factors. And example in practice today is that the maximium loan payment you can be approved for can be increased with greater downpayment and additional assets over and above the required minimum.
The beginning of the subprime meltdown was to make exception for self employed borrowers who had outstanding credit, and assets but appeared unable to afford the loan based upon the income derived after significant business writeoffs. That was good business. When the rules were further relaxed and ultimately led to 0 downpayment loans for wage earners who did not show income documentation with below average credit and no proof of assets, the end was already scripted.
Many changes have occurred. There is no such thing as a sub prime mortgage today, and the laws that have been enacted make it likely that there never will be. (Many states have passed lending laws that limit the maximum interest than can be charge to one that could never cover the risk of lending to a subprime borrower).
I thnk I agree with the spirit of your comments, that the financial systems in this country are not immune to meltdowns coming from many areas, but the subprime mortgage meltdown is as unlikely to repeat itself as anything we could discuss.

PS The decline in real estate values is very closely tied to this issue, as the resulting climb in foreclosures saturated the market with bank owned homes, and the result being my home is worth less because you can buy a foreclosure from a bank instead and they will take whatever they can to get out from under it.
 
Actually the basis for the subprime meltdown was an explosion of lenders who continued to loosen lending guidelines, well beyond the point where they knew they were not sound.

The real culprit was the ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) that became accessible to the subprime borrowers. The belief was that house prices would continue to appreciate and the below market interest-only payment on those ARMs was what made them so attractive and the immediate option for many borrowers (until the principal + interest kicked in). Borrowers who would not be able to make the higher payments once the initial grace period ended, would simply refinance their mortgages after a year or two of appreciation but once the market plummeted as fast as it did (which many people did not think would happen) the refinancing option became impossible because the value of the house dropped below the ability and value of refinancing it.


Mortgage lending historically has been based on somewhat stringent guidelines, with exception to some allowed based upon compensating factors. And example in practice today is that the maximium loan payment you can be approved for can be increased with greater downpayment and additional assets over and above the required minimum.

This is part of the deregulation process that I was speaking of.

The beginning of the subprime meltdown was to make exception for self employed borrowers who had outstanding credit, and assets but appeared unable to afford the loan based upon the income derived after significant business writeoffs. That was good business. When the rules were further relaxed and ultimately led to 0 downpayment loans for wage earners who did not show income documentation with below average credit and no proof of assets, the end was already scripted.

It wasn't just self-employed, but also minority and community related. This was part of the Clinton era push on making housing more affordable, and during the housing boom, spun out of control and became abused as a lack of what I like to call "moral responsibility."

Many changes have occurred. There is no such thing as a sub prime mortgage today, and the laws that have been enacted make it likely that there never will be. (Many states have passed lending laws that limit the maximum interest than can be charge to one that could never cover the risk of lending to a subprime borrower).

Of course the laws have changed- that isn't my point. My point is the principle that lies underneath that. My whole argument is that the housing crisis was just a mask that Wall Street's shadow banking system put on. A lot of people think the blame is on the mask without understanding the creature who put on that mask.

A lot of those deregulation and changes happened without due diligence or stringent oversight because policymakers had no idea of the impact that the shadow banking system would have on the entire process. The run on the housing crisis enabled the shadow banking system to double and triple in size (the same behavior occured prior to the Great Depression) and this is where the core of the crisis lies, because not only did they borrow short term liquid to buy long term risky illiquid assets, they also shorted, bought on margin, even engaged in naked short-selling (the leveraging and re-leveraging I was speaking of). So the inevitable disruptions in the credit market (the rapid collapse in mortgage payments that caused the 'clawback' default on those swaps) caused those spectacular flameouts (Lehman Bros, et al).


I thnk I agree with the spirit of your comments, that the financial systems in this country are not immune to meltdowns coming from many areas, but the subprime mortgage meltdown is as unlikely to repeat itself as anything we could discuss.

I have no doubt that the subprime crisis will not repeat itself. My question here is without outlawing the ability of Wall Street to leverage many times its real value, what other market waits to be imploded?
 
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The real culprit was the ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) that became accessible to the subprime borrowers. The belief was that house prices would continue to appreciate and the below market interest-only payment on those ARMs was what made them so attractive and the immediate option for many borrowers (until the principal + interest kicked in). Borrowers who would not be able to make the higher payments once the initial grace period ended, would simply refinance their mortgages after a year or two of appreciation but once the market plummeted as fast as it did (which many people did not think would happen) the refinancing option became impossible because the value of the house dropped below the ability and value of refinancing it.
Actually the ARMs werent the problem, but the ARM borrowers became victims. The subprime ARM rates were higher than prime fixed rates so they were only attractive to a small portion of borrowers. Subprime loans comprised between 9 and 11% of all mortgage loans the their height.
The subprime ARM hepled the subprime borrower get a little bit lower payment (a very small percentage were also interest only) while repairing their credit during a 2-3 year (sometimes but rarely 5) fixed period. Until the meltdown they would never see the adjustment.
Those borrowers, at least those of them that did not repair their credit, were left out in the cold when it came time to refinance because there were no longer any subprime lenders. The disappearance of subprime loans happened so quickly that the ARM borrowers who could not get out of the ARM when it adjusted came after the blowup, rather than contributing to it.
Subprime loans were gone before the Real Estate market crashed.





It wasn't just self-employed, but also minority and community related. This was part of the Clinton era push on making housing more affordable, and during the housing boom, spun out of control and became abused as a lack of what I like to call "moral responsibility."
I think you misunderstood me. Lending guidelines were expanded to service the self-employed, based uponj the reality that their proof of income was not a true indication of their financial standing, and that was a good business decision, as those loans performed. What followed was loosening credit standards, asset requirements, equity, and then eliminated the self-employed restriction of the program. At the end you could literally get 100% financing with absolutely no income documentation, even if you were paid a salary (the only reason to not require proof of income on a salaried employee is to endorse them lying about their income) with no assets, with the seller paying your closing costs, i.e. a total investment of $0.00 in the property with no money in the bank, and all of this with a credit score of 580. (Today it is virtually impossible to get any mortgage loan with a credit score under 620 and the average credit score is about 690).



Of course the laws have changed- that isn't my point. My point is the principle that lies underneath that. My whole argument is that the housing crisis was just a mask that Wall Street's shadow banking system put on. A lot of people think the blame is on the mask without understanding the creature who put on that mask.
I dont disagree but I think it is impossible to have an economy such as we do in this country without risks such as this. There are many easy restrictions that could be put on Wall Street to prevent the risk of future setbacks, but they would cripple the economy. Any investment, at its most basic level is a gamble. When you project that over an entire economy as large as ours it is basically impossible to not have crises.


A lot of those deregulation and changes happened without due diligence or stringent oversight because policymakers had no idea of the impact that the shadow banking system would have on the entire process. The run on the housing crisis enabled the shadow banking system to double and triple in size (the same behavior occured prior to the Great Depression) and this is where the core of the crisis lies, because not only did they borrow short term liquid to buy long term risky illiquid assets, they also shorted, bought on margin, even engaged in naked short-selling (the leveraging and re-leveraging I was speaking of). So the inevitable disruptions in the credit market (the rapid collapse in mortgage payments that caused the 'clawback' default on those swaps) caused those spectacular flameouts (Lehman Bros, et al).
But at the heart of the issue were poor loan decisions. Not just poor loan decisions but lending policies that were made up of criteria guaranteed to create poor decisions. The largest originators in the country were not lending their own money or keeping any skin in the game. On the subprime end they were literally selling off the loans in weeks to net 3-4% and be out of the transaction. Volume outpaced quality. By the time the poor performance of the loans caught up (they were charged back on defaults) they had made their millions, closed up shop, the execs walked away with millions and the workforces mostly found new careers.
There is no doubt that the shenanigans on Wall Street, including the package of subprime securities to be sold as prime contributed much to the problem, but had lending guidelines of say, 2002 never loosened to the idiocy they did, there would not have been the volume of bad loans to create the blowup.




I have no doubt that the subprime crisis will not repeat itself. My question here is without outlawing the ability of Wall Street to leverage many times its real value, what other market waits to be imploded?
I think there will be implosions in the future, and I think they are a necessary evil to be able to run the financial markets we have in this country without strangling them.
Bad things happen in any economy, its just a matter of how much risk you are willing to accept to create the ability for reward.
 
I think it's very important for everyone to understand the driving principles behind the subprime crisis, because although the crisis itself has subsided, the means and motivation that led to it hasn't changed one bit.

Deregulation had a strong role in the latter stage of the housing crisis bubble. For example, the Glass-Steagall Act was enacted after the Great Depression to separate commercial banks and investment banks, in part to avoid potential conflicts of interest between the lending activities of the former and rating activities of the latter. This is where the MBS's and CDO's come in in the dangerous link between ordinary banking and Wall Street speculation, in the form of credit ratings that allowed those MBS's and CDO's to perpetuate.

A key component of understanding the crisis- is to understand that as the real estate market became the next "hot" thing after the tech bubble burst, the price of property started to rise out of the reach of ordinary buyers, so Wall Street comes up with newfangled financial ingenuity to answer this, such as the mortgage-backed security (MBS) and collateralized debt obligation (CDO), that get assigned "safe ratings." Investors buy those securities under the pretense that they are "safe investments," the mortgage giants are injected with more cash (with which they treat with even more recklessness), through Wall Street, which they loan out to people with questionable assets and credit rating (since they've run out of good people to loan to), that's where the subprime crisis starts. The credit-rating agencies were very complicit in the collapse of the market.

To oversimplify- this is a fancy term for 'leveraging' and 're-leveraging.' Through financial innovation, Wall Street tried to sustain the boom to keep making money off it, but that made the crash even worse as it sucked up more and more money from ordinary investors.

Banks are like ordinary people in that they invest with the money we store in them, with one exception. We are not allowed to invest speculatively to the extent that they do, we are not given the same type of overreaching loans that are given to them on their terms. For us to invest speculatively on the scale that they do, is the equivalent of an ordinary family, betting short on, or taking out a loan on a Gulfstream Jet.

We have actually emerged from the crisis in worse shape than before, and are in position to create even bigger bubbles in the future because none of the de-regulations have been "re-regulated" and the means by which the exorbitant leveraging operate (the "Gulfstream Jet" example here) have not been outlawed, like they were after the Great Depression. Big banks came out even stronger, and smaller banks went under. Those big banks are leveraged even worse than before.

So to get back to the point via the long way- to say the mortgage companies failed is misleading- they were just the middlemen, even partners in crime, who eventually got manipulated by Wall Street "ingenuity." In other words, Wall Street simply jumped on the real estate wagon and rode it into the ground with their "financial ingenuities" which are even more complicated and convoluted than ever.

Just as the next bubble/burst is not going to be because of the specific market that got exploited way beyond its means to sustain, but because of the unchecked principles behind it.


I'll skip AJ's comments, because ~ no offense, AJ ~ I can't read that crap.

The real culprit was the ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) that became accessible to the subprime borrowers. The belief was that house prices would continue to appreciate and the below market interest-only payment on those ARMs was what made them so attractive and the immediate option for many borrowers (until the principal + interest kicked in). Borrowers who would not be able to make the higher payments once the initial grace period ended, would simply refinance their mortgages after a year or two of appreciation but once the market plummeted as fast as it did (which many people did not think would happen) the refinancing option became impossible because the value of the house dropped below the ability and value of refinancing it.




This is part of the deregulation process that I was speaking of.



It wasn't just self-employed, but also minority and community related. This was part of the Clinton era push on making housing more affordable, and during the housing boom, spun out of control and became abused as a lack of what I like to call "moral responsibility."



Of course the laws have changed- that isn't my point. My point is the principle that lies underneath that. My whole argument is that the housing crisis was just a mask that Wall Street's shadow banking system put on. A lot of people think the blame is on the mask without understanding the creature who put on that mask.

A lot of those deregulation and changes happened without due diligence or stringent oversight because policymakers had no idea of the impact that the shadow banking system would have on the entire process. The run on the housing crisis enabled the shadow banking system to double and triple in size (the same behavior occured prior to the Great Depression) and this is where the core of the crisis lies, because not only did they borrow short term liquid to buy long term risky illiquid assets, they also shorted, bought on margin, even engaged in naked short-selling (the leveraging and re-leveraging I was speaking of). So the inevitable disruptions in the credit market (the rapid collapse in mortgage payments that caused the 'clawback' default on those swaps) caused those spectacular flameouts (Lehman Bros, et al)

I have no doubt that the subprime crisis will not repeat itself. My question here is without outlawing the ability of Wall Street to leverage many times its real value, what other market waits to be imploded?

A very fair question, sir. And tremendous posts, if I may say so.

1 ~ The Real Estate Market. Just because it led us down, last time, doesn't mean it won't again. The Case Shiller Index, the Blytix Indeces, and the spiking Mortgage Reset Chart strongly suggest ~ to these eyes ~ that The Worst Is Yet To Come:

Case Shiller Chart

Blytic Real Estatial Chart

Blytic Commercial Real Estatial Chart

Mortgage Reset Chart

2 ~ Gold. Frankly, I think Gold's best days are yet to come, and that it's poised for a fresh burst to 2000 or beyond...But a spectacular Crash IS in the offing.

3 ~ The Stock Market. The NadsDaq's at about 2700, and I see little reason for it not to revisit 1000 ~ or even 600 ~ in the years ahead. The Jones is at 12,000, and could easily lose 80% of its current Market Value.

X ~ The Dollar. THAT, of course, is the X Factor, as duly noted. If that sucker falls, ALL bets are off.

Seems to me that the MacroEconomic Trend is, even as we speak, turning Southerly, and that any ensuing Bubbles will be of progressively regressive Impact: Even the country's mass mentality has undergone a Seismic Shift, and skepticism is ~ as it was, 75-80 years ago ~ ascendant.

All I mean by that is: Lower Highs and Lower Lows.

In a word, I believe that our Socio-Economic System has only just begun the early chapters of an unprecedented Dark Age.

But even now, with 99% still unaware of that likelihood, the seeds of Rebirth are already being planted: The Tea Party ~ I am not affiliated ~ is having a real impact on the Conversation in Washington, much to my astonishment and Joy.
 
One small observation if I may, from my LIMITED perspective, but one I wish to tie into my ongoing Goodell jihad that most here consider over the top....

A close friend I grew up with, his nephew became head of Allied Mortgage in N.E. back in 2000. The whole family and a host of friends we grew up with all got involved selling mortgages.Allied had a section in the Razor at the 50 yard line for meetings and schmoozing clients. My friend's nephew ,at this point,lived in a million dollar mansion in northeastern R.I., drove his and hers Porsche SUV's, threw swanky parties catered by upscale restaurants,smoked Cubans and drank high end champagne and cognacs.I was recently retired from an engineering career and setting off on my second life when this kid made me an offer to come onboard and lead a sales team. I went to a seminar hosted by this young man,who I considered family because of affiliation with the rest of the family, and listened to an entire soup to nuts presentation. Afterwards, among the fifty or so prospective brokers at the meeting, he asked me what I thought. I told him he was the head of a major Ponzi scheme,the ARM he held on his own home was going to sink him and his family and to get out of the business before it crashed. He laughed, every single prospective broker stayed on for further training and the party continued. My good friend, his uncle, asked me why I walked away and I asked HIM why HE wasn't part of everything and we both laughed...why??..because we were brought up to be honest, fair ,square and on the level...my dad was a R.I. state trooper and his a captain of the guard at the ACI. Nine months later, Allied disappeared as an entity, the nephew disappeared leaving a wife and twin daughters holding the bag on a mil+ mortgage and a ton of debt.

The point is this,once I took a close look at this business I could SEE it was corrupt.It's exactly the same with Goodell. If you take the time to examine this person, REALLY look at the total sum and everything that has gone into his rise to prominence, the stench of corruption is unmistakable.I trust NOTHING about this pending "deal" and I suspect everything that flows forth from his mouth and office. Just like the mortgage industry had to overhauled, the NFL has to excise this cancerous "commissioner" and find an honest, forthright, upstanding man of integrity, guts and vision to lead this league into the future.
 
But at the heart of the issue were poor loan decisions. Not just poor loan decisions but lending policies that were made up of criteria guaranteed to create poor decisions. The largest originators in the country were not lending their own money or keeping any skin in the game.

Just a quick comment since this clearly has little to do with football.

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the critical role of the government in this fiasco. The creation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac along with implicit guarantees was a foundational building block of the crisis. And then to top it off, laws were passed and lending policies enforced that required lenders to loan money to those who would not have qualified in previous years (in the name of making housing "more affordable").

And since Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac still exist, the chances of a similar issue happening at some point in the future remain high i.e. as long as there is some sucker (essentially the American public since we still send over tens of billions of dollars every few months to these quasi-government institutions to prevent their collapse) willing to buy the loan giving the originator a chance to make a short term profit with essentially no risk, we will have booms and busts. The rules may make this difficult today (in the midst of the bust part of the cycle) but history shows that memories are short and rules are easily manipulated to the (political) whims of the moment.

Lots of factors went into the real estate boom and bust: buyers who couldn't afford the houses, loan originators who could make bad loans with no skin in the game, accounting principles that didn't fully reflect risk, government mandates that forced some sub-prime lending, reserve requirements for institutions that were inadequate, credit rating agencies that proved absolutely clueless about doing the one thing they are paid to do (assess risk), creation of new, complex financial instruments to effectively sell the loans and distribute the risk around the world and a buyer of loans that was (and continues to be) always there keeping the market greased.
 
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A close friend I grew up with, his nephew became head of Allied Mortgage in N.E. back in 2000. The whole family and a host of friends we grew up with all got involved selling mortgages.Allied had a section in the Razor at the 50 yard line for meetings and schmoozing clients. My friend's nephew ,at this point,lived in a million dollar mansion in northeastern R.I., drove his and hers Porsche SUV's, threw swanky parties catered by upscale restaurants,smoked Cubans and drank high end champagne and cognacs.I was recently retired from an engineering career and setting off on my second life when this kid made me an offer to come onboard and lead a sales team. I went to a seminar hosted by this young man,who I considered family because of affiliation with the rest of the family, and listened to an entire soup to nuts presentation. Afterwards, among the fifty or so prospective brokers at the meeting, he asked me what I thought. I told him he was the head of a major Ponzi scheme,the ARM he held on his own home was going to sink him and his family and to get out of the business before it crashed. He laughed, every single prospective broker stayed on for further training and the party continued.

The point is this,once I took a close look at this business I could SEE it was corrupt.

Us former engineering types are by nature and profession more skeptical and analytical. I've had a similar reaction to "financial managers" where friends urged me to attend their presentations. All fluff, no substance "Trust me!" don't fly with Homie. It's also why defense lawyers invariably use their vetoes to drop engineers from jury pools.
 
Just a quick comment since this clearly has little to do with football.

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the critical role of the government in this fiasco. The creation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac along with implicit guarantees was a foundational building block of the crisis. And then to top it off, laws were passed and lending policies enforced that required lenders to loan money to those who would not have qualified in previous years (in the name of making housing "more affordable").

And since Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac still exist, the chances of a similar issue happening at some point in the future remain high i.e. as long as there is some sucker (essentially the American public since we still send over tens of billions of dollars every few months to these quasi-government institutions to prevent their collapse) willing to buy the loan giving the originator a chance to make a short term profit with essentially no risk, we will have booms and busts. The rules may make this difficult today (in the midst of the bust part of the cycle) but history shows that memories are short and rules are easily manipulated to the (political) whims of the moment.

Lots of factors went into the real estate boom and bust: buyers who couldn't afford the houses, loan originators who could make bad loans with no skin in the game, accounting principles that didn't fully reflect risk, government mandates that forced some sub-prime lending, reserve requirements for institutions that were inadequate, credit rating agencies that proved absolutely clueless about doing the one thing they are paid to do (assess risk), creation of new, complex financial instruments to effectively sell the loans and distribute the risk around the world and a buyer of loans that was (and continues to be) always there keeping the market greased.

See post #89. The post implosion Dodd-Frank financial "reform" bill as I mentioned there deliberately avoided dealing with the big elephant fanny in the room.

And allowing folks to buy homes with zero down made it way, way to easy to just walk away with zero equity loss when times got tougher, which millions have simply done.
 
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I agree that it is money motivated, but I disagree with the term 'greed'.
Both sides are protecting their livlihood. I think greed is a very strong word for that. I don't consider myself greedy when I negotiate my pay.

well stated. most call it "greed" because the total nut is so high and the salaries of NFL players are beyond what most folks can imagine earning.

to my mind, this has always been about a group of entrepreneurs/small business owners negotiating with a group of highly talented, for want of a better word, "entertainer-athletes" over how to divide up a very large pie so that the investors earn a fair return for the risk taken in deploying their capital and the entertainers can maximize their earnings potential over a career that lasts on average 3.7 years. it had nothing to do with greed.
 
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TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
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Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
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