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Can Cassel be traded while the draft is ongoing?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Feb 13, 2009.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    An obvious scenario is for Cassel to be traded only as the draft is ongoing, and teams discover whether or not they can draft their favorite rookie QB.

    Problem -- as I understand it, Cassell can be traded only with a new contract ($14.x million one year or otherwise). So, unless he actually signs such a contract before the draft, he can not realistically be signed during it.

    Traded after the draft? Sure. Team drafts for N.E. and then trades the unsigned player -- uh, is even that realistic, or is there a problem with rookie salary caps, CBA, whatever?

    Am I missing anything here?
  2. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    No - I don't think you're missing anything... yu've noted the issue with him needing a new contract.

    I don't see a team trading top picks without an agreement in place for a long term deal - so I'm not clear why some see a team accepting a trade for a guy who's under contract for just one season.

    So it would be extremely unlikely that during the draft itself - especiallly in the top picks when we'd want a pick - that the terms of the agreement and a long term contract negotiated by Cassel's agent and the team could all be worked out in a matter of minutes.

    What might be more palatable to some teams is trading high 2010 draft picks - and if that's the case, with the limited number of quality QBs in the draft, I can a trade going down AFTER the draft - not necessarilly before.
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's not how it works. It could happen during the draft. What would happen is that a team would have already worked out the parameters with the trade with the Pats and a new contract with Cassel prior. If that team has their targeted player go off the board before they pick, they get on the phone with the Pats and Cassel and make the trade. These type of deals happen all the time at least the trading picks part.

    Again, I still don't think it is crazy that a contender team trading for Cassel before a deal is in place. Not likely, but not impossible.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  4. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Wasn't Moss acquired during the draft and redo his contract at the same time????
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, but he wasn't traded until the second day of the draft, which gave the Pats time to fly Moss out for a physical and discuss contracts. Hard to do that during round one.

    There is a problem. The rookie cap is based on the draft picks you use, not the players you end up with. The only reason the Sheli-Rivers trade worked was because the cap allotments for slots 1 and 4 were close enough to make it palatable.
  6. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Analogies to the Bledsoe trade are not misplaced.
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    My point is that transferring Cassel to a new team seemingly would take not just handshake agreement, but an Actual Signed Contract.

    Unless, of course, somebody wants him for $14 million+ for a year, due to high optimism they can sign him to deal (if he works out well) a year later. But that strikes me as a triple risk -- picks, money for a year, and the danger of him walking if he DID work out well for them -- that teams probably wouldn't want to take on.
  8. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

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    Given the Patriots need to clear the cap space, this is a possible but less-likely scenario.
    Obviously this is what happened with Bledsoe, with the Patriots ending up with a first-round pick in the following year's draft.

    Further, given most team's interests in understanding their QB situation prior to the draft, there is some incentive for teams needing a QB to move earlier.

    There are sure to be some suitors interested, whether they are willing to offer a first rounder in 2009 or not. The Patriots can play those options off each other in the opening days of free agency, and decide whether to accept the best offer.

    Comparing Cassel to a QB in the draft is not quite apples and oranges.
    Only Stafford really has the experience and capability to represent an option of starting from day one.
    Sanchez, the consensus #2 QB in the draft, has a single season of college starting experience.
    Of course, Cassel only has a single season of starting NFL experience, but that is a world of difference, and he also has three additional seasons of coaching, development, training camp, film study, mentoring under Brady, etc. in the NFL.
    Cassel will start opening day. There may be only one drafted QB who will do that, and he will likely go #1 overall.
    If your plan is to gain a starting QB on draft weekend, that is a very risky approach.
  9. Pawn512

    Pawn512 Rookie

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    Cassel can be traded at any time, with or without a long-term contract. The reason most franchise player trades have included a long-term contract is you cannot trade the player unless they are under contract - meaning they have to sign the tender. They are then traded and immediately sign an already-negotatiated long-term deal with their new team. To agree to sign the tender, thus allowing the trade, the franchised players have generally required that such a long-term deal be in place. Because Cassel has already signed the tender, he has given up that control - the Pats could trade him to anybody they want, with or without a long-term deal. Without a long-term deal he would be under the same 1-year $14.6 million contract with his new team.

    Now of course, many teams may be reluctant to do a deal without agreement with Cassel on a long-term deal, but its not a requirement like it is on most tag and trade deals.
  10. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Also, don't forget that Cassel didn't leave early, so he also had extra time in the USC system, too.

    As far as Cassel starting goes--on another team, yes. With the Pats, who knows.
  11. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Once the second round of the draft is completed, there is no

    rush for the Patriots to trade Cassel until the draft is completed.

    Any acceptable trade would include first or second round draft

    picks not second day picks.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  12. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    This is how I see it playing out if he is not traded until the draft but I think the team who gets Cassel would like him ASAP so I would say he should be gone by the end of the draft at least.
  13. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I don't think it would be an issue that there wasn't a long-term contract in place at the time of the trade. It would be in the new team's best interest and Cassel's best interest to sign a long-term deal; usually when both sides have the same goal things work out well.
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You would rule out a 2009 3rd, a 2010 first plus another pick?

  15. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Cassell is NOT currently under contract in the sense that, say, Tom Brady is.
  16. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I am on the pessimistic side. I think if the second round ends without

    a reasonable bid for Cassel, there is a real possibility that he will not

    be dealt. He would be cut next year because the franchise tag would

    be exorbitant and the Patriots would receive no compensation.
  17. Rob0729

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    A signed agreement would be impossible since Cassel cannot legally sign a contract with another team until after he is traded to that team. All trades involving a new deal with the new team are based on handshake agreements. Any agreement that Cassel will get with a new team would be verbally agreed to before the Pats trade him. Once he gets traded, that is when he will sign the agreement. Not before. You cannot have two contracts from two different team and Cassel is under contract with the Patriots until Cassel is officially traded to another team with the paperwork submitted to the league and is approved by the league.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The franchise tag is already exorbitant. If the Pats can't trade him, they basically have to extend him (which would give them the opportunity to trade him in later years).
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, not exactly true. Any trade for Cassel could include first day AND second day picks. So there is still a chance that the best deal the Pats can get for Cassel is a third this year and maybe a first and second next year. If a team went through the first two rounds and missed out on the QB they wanted and realizes they are going into the season with no QB of the future or present.

    Teams get desperate after the first day of the draft and they do stupid things some times on the second day. The Pats usually capitalize on them (trading Moss for a 4th, picking up a bunch of future draft picks for teams desperate to move up on the second day of the draft).
  20. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Hmm. A fair point.

    The way the NBA handles it is sign-then-trade, with the two transactions linked together. You're saying that in the NFL it's trade-then-sign?
  21. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Why not? He signed the tender. That means that he is under contract for at least 1 year.
  22. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Maybe I'm wrong, but I always viewed a tender as a binding letter of intent, not the actual contract.

    For example, there's a rule that a contract can't be renegotiated in less than a year. However, a player who signs a tender can indeed get a new contract shortly thereafter.

    Contracts have clauses about minimum numbers of charitable appearances and all sorts of stuff. I'm under the impression that tenders don't. And so on.
  23. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "(a) Provided that all Salary Cap requirements are met, Player Contracts for current and future years may be renegotiated and/or extended except as follows:
    (i) The contract of a Veteran Player may not be renegotiated to increase the Salary to be paid to the player during the original terms of the contract for a period of twelve months after the player’s most recent contract renegotiation. The first renegotiation of a Veteran Player Contract, however, may take place at any time."

    Tender or new deal, doesn't matter.
  24. BradyBranch39

    BradyBranch39 Rookie

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    I think you guys who are confused are so because of this:
    A team trading for Cassel without a contract agreement in place would need to have $14 million+ of cap room.
  25. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Good find. Thanks!
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