Butler is trying to convince Bodden to stay

[tanked_as_usual]

He also calls Eugene Wilson a bust, which is about as dumb as it gets around here.

started strong, but fell off the planet....not a bust tho

 

[Deus Irae]

Nobody on the board is talking about Fred Smoot, whom the Redskins cut.

 

[emoney_33]

Don't forget Weed Willie Andrews, Mikey Richardson & Christian Morton.

This stupid game of Musical CBs that Bill has played since Ty Law's departure has to stop.

If he can afford to sign TBC, Neal & Kaczur to those above-market contracts, then he can cert. afford to pay Leigh Bodden the money he deserves.

Good, proven CBs are usually ridiculously overpaid for what they add to BB's defense. Add that to the fact that you can't have high-priced players at each position even if they are worth it, and CB is one of the positions that has been sacrificed ($ wise) to field a complete team. Although I will be shocked if Bodden signs elsewhere for $5M Or less per year.

 

[JMarr]

Re: Butler is trying to convince Bodden to stay.

I think that poster was talking about the 5 INTs, forgetting that three of them came against Mark Sanchez in an awful performance. Who didn't intercept him?

Again, I really feel he is a solid corner and would like to retain him like most, but he really isn't elite.

INTs are the last thing I would look at in evaluating a DB's effectiveness within a system. I'm too lazy to look it up, but the statistic I was referring to was from an earlier Bodden thread and had to do with the ratio of passes *successfully defended* to passes *attempted at* each CB in the league.

Not a big statistics fan anyway. That fact that, as another poster said, he knows our system and excelled in it last season is probably the most important factor, along with the fact that Bodden is actually good in press coverage and isn't scared to pop running backs that come his way.

I can understand the whole "value" argument that people are making, but not the argument that he can easily be replaced via the draft or by a guy like Buchanon.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Butler is trying to convince Bodden to stay.

actually, its a very good argument.......you just don't like it

Actually, it isn't, and I provided the reasoning as to why that's the case.

Meanwhile, your truly brilliant counterargument consists of saying "you're wrong because I say so."

If you were actually known for your keen insight and observations, I might consider your point. However, since that isn't the case, you'll need to provide a more cogent rebuttal before I bother reading your remarks.

 

[JackBauer]

Nobody on the board is talking about Fred Smoot, whom the Redskins cut.

Does he have any gas left in the tank?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Patriots needs for 2010:

WR2
WR3/4 (backup)
TE1
TE2
RB (?)
OG
DE
LOLB
ROLB
ILB
CB2
CB1
P

Pimping 4 picks in 2 rounds when there are arguably 13 starting spots/significant backup spots that need to be filled simply isn't going to appease people who don't want rely on cut players and UFDAs. That's especially true because it's unlikely that the 4 picks in the first two rounds will result in 4 players who are NFL quality starters in the first week of the season.

Yup

Standard unkeen insight from the Douche Awry.

Uhhh, by your standard every team has about 20 critical needs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yup

Standard unkeen insight from the Douche Awry.

Uhhh, by your standard every team has about 20 critical needs.

1.) I wasn't insulting you or your post, so the personal insult was unnecessary as well as just being pathetic.

2.) If you don't think those positions of in need of addressing, you should feel free to show how only 4 positions on the team are in need of such a thing:

3.) Both Watson and Baker are gone.... hence 2 TEs

4.) Aiken couldn't get the job done last year and Welker got hurt.... hence 2 WRs

5.) Neal hasn't played 16 games in a season since 2005, and we've seen the line struggle when he's been out. Hence the OG

6.) We don't know if the team will be bringing back Faulk or keeping Morris/Taylor. Hence the RB with the question mark

7.) They traded Seymour away last year and his backup is now a free agent. Hence the DE

8.) All reports point to Thomas moving on, Burgess is a free agent, and TBC struggles against the run. Hence the OLBs

9.) Guyton struggled, yet again, against the run, and McKenzie will be coming back from injury having never played a down in the NFL. Hence the ILB

10.) Bodden is a FA. Hence CB1

11.) Springs is older and couldn't keep the job for 16 weeks, and Butler was yanked in and out of the starting spot. Hence CB2

12.) Hanson is a FA. Hence P

13.) As I noted, it's not likely that all 4 picks would be ready to step in as NFL quality starters on week one.

Now, if you've got something constructive to post in response, please feel free to do so. Otherwise, have a coke and a smile and, well, you know.

 

[BelichickFan]

4.) Aiken couldn't get the job done last year and Welker got hurt.... hence 2 WRs

Edelman and Tate are no longer rookies. Growth is to be expected and Welker will likely be back NLT mid seasons.

5.) Neal hasn't played 16 games in a season since 2005, and we've seen the line struggle when he's been out. Hence the OG

We need backups, we drafted them LAST year.

6.) We don't know if the team will be bringing back Faulk or keeping Morris/Taylor. Hence the RB with the question mark

Becomes a ??? if Faulk leaves but there's no reason to think Morris or Taylor will be gone.

8.) All reports point to Thomas moving on, Burgess is a free agent, and TBC struggles against the run. Hence the OLBs

Regardless, TBC will be starting and playing most of the time. 1 OLB, maybe 1 backup depending what they do with Guyton and McKenzie.

9.) Guyton struggled, yet again, against the run, and McKenzie will be coming back from injury having never played a down in the NFL. Hence the ILB

2 young guys competing for one spot. It is what it is.

11.) Springs is older and couldn't keep the job for 16 weeks, and Butler was yanked in and out of the starting spot. Hence CB2

Butler is no longer a rookie, growth is to be expected.

12.) Hanson is a FA. Hence P

BFD, a punter will be had as a FA or late draft choice.

This is about the most overblown list of needs I've ever seen.

We need, IMO :

2 TE
1 WR
1 DE
1 OLB
1 CB

And FA has only just started.

 

[JackBauer]

I'd actually rate OC as a higher position of need than OG.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'd actually rate OC as a higher position of need than OG.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I doubt Belichick feels that way as Koppen has been durable and a generally quick healer. He may not be great but he's reliable and signed for 2 more years.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

1.) I wasn't insulting you or your post, so the personal insult was unnecessary as well as just being pathetic.

2.) If you don't think those positions of in need of addressing, you should feel free to show how only 4 positions on the team are in need of such a thing:

3.) Both Watson and Baker are gone.... hence 2 TEs

4.) Aiken couldn't get the job done last year and Welker got hurt.... hence 2 WRs

5.) Neal hasn't played 16 games in a season since 2005, and we've seen the line struggle when he's been out. Hence the OG

6.) We don't know if the team will be bringing back Faulk or keeping Morris/Taylor. Hence the RB with the question mark

7.) They traded Seymour away last year and his backup is now a free agent. Hence the DE

8.) All reports point to Thomas moving on, Burgess is a free agent, and TBC struggles against the run. Hence the OLBs

9.) Guyton struggled, yet again, against the run, and McKenzie will be coming back from injury having never played a down in the NFL. Hence the ILB

10.) Bodden is a FA. Hence CB1

11.) Springs is older and couldn't keep the job for 16 weeks, and Butler was yanked in and out of the starting spot. Hence CB2

12.) Hanson is a FA. Hence P

13.) As I noted, it's not likely that all 4 picks would be ready to step in as NFL quality starters on week one.

Now, if you've got something constructive to post in response, please feel free to do so. Otherwise, have a coke and a smile and, well, you know.

Deus

Everyone has questions going into the season. Here are the facts:

We do not know how much the Pats or Texans have offered.

The draft is strong and we do not know what BB has in mind for the 4 picks or for the 2011 1st round via draft or trade

We have Mckenzie coming back this year with Tate and a QB who has the full offseason to work with his receivers.

Per NFLN, this year is very deep in RB's.

Guyton is a second year player as is Mayo, Wilhite, Wheatley. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that second year players tend not to be at max play?

Anybody remember the late 1990's and what went of with the core of the dynasty players?

The threads on this site revolve around a few thoughts:

The owner who is probably the only guy to finance his own stadium vs tagging tax payers with $hundreds of million in debt is "cheap".

Let's complain that Brady has no receivers so that when he gets receivers we can complain all he does is lock on those receivers and not spread the ball around like he used to when he had no receivers. We'll do this until it looks like the Pats are going back to the old way and not "land" a big name guy whi fits the bill of someone who Brady will lock on and not spread the ball around.

Old and slow doesn't work but it's the good old days when we get younger.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not saying you're wrong but I doubt Belichick feels that way as Koppen has been durable and a generally quick healer. He may not be great but he's reliable and signed for 2 more years.

I think he meant offensive coordinator.

 

[BelichickFan]

I think he meant offensive coordinator.

LOL, well we can't draft one of those A lot of people seem down on Koppen's run blocking at the point of attack so I assumed that's what he meant.

 

[JackBauer]

I'm not saying you're wrong but I doubt Belichick feels that way as Koppen has been durable and a generally quick healer. He may not be great but he's reliable and signed for 2 more years.

What I'm saying is that the situation at OG is more promising (at least, in my opinion) than the situation at OC.

We have two starters in Mankins and Neal. A marginal backup in Connolly who has an unknown ceiling. And, finally, a complete unknown in Ohrnberger, whom the Patriots were allegedly very high on coming out of Penn State.

At OC, we have Koppen and (?) Connolly. If we could pick up another guy in the late rounds with both OC/OG potential, that would be ideal. But, to my eyes anyway (assuming Vollmer wins the RT spot), Koppen is by far and away the biggest liability on the line.

 

[BelichickFan]

What I'm saying is that the situation at OG is more promising (at least, in my opinion) than the situation at OC.

We have two starters in Mankins and Neal. A marginal backup in Connolly who has an unknown ceiling. And, finally, a complete unknown in Ohrnberger, whom the Patriots were allegedly very high on coming out of Penn State.

I'm not sure that Ohrnberger won't end up as the backup C, we'll see about that. We also still have Bussey at OG from last year's draft.

 

[JackBauer]

I think he meant offensive coordinator.

No, sir, I meant center

While I'm not a fan of BOB, it seems BB has faith in him. So we'll see how that shakes out.

 

[Deus Irae]

Edelman and Tate are no longer rookies. Growth is to be expected and Welker will likely be back NLT mid seasons.

Actually, Tate will be, for all intents and purposes, a rookie on the field. As for Welker, we don't know when he'll be back or how he'll fare.

We need backups, we drafted them LAST year.

And they failed to do the job last year.

Becomes a ??? if Faulk leaves but there's no reason to think Morris or Taylor will be gone.

Faulk is currently a free agent. Realistically, it's already a question mark from that perspective. However, if the team decided to use Taylor as the 3rd down back and let Faulk go, it would no longer be a personnel question mark, which is why I noted it only as a possible issue.

Regardless, TBC will be starting and playing most of the time. 1 OLB, maybe 1 backup depending what they do with Guyton and McKenzie.

2 young guys competing for one spot. It is what it is.

In other words.... LOLB, ROLB and ILB, which is what I said. Listing Guyton and McKenzie on both OLB and ILB isn't exactly helpful to your response.

Butler is no longer a rookie, growth is to be expected.

No, growth is to be hoped for. Struggling is to be planned for.

BFD, a punter will be had as a FA or late draft choice.

In other words, punter needs to be dealt with, as I noted.

This is about the most overblown list of needs I've ever seen.

We need, IMO :

2 TE
1 WR
1 DE
1 OLB
1 CB

And FA has only just started.

The fact that you called my list overblown while agreeing with each issue except for "growth is to be expected" shows that it's really just a semantics argument on your part, likely in an attempt to play down the isuses. "Growth is to be expected".... how'd that work out with Wilhite, Wheatley and Mayo? Completely ignoring the P position when you talk about your 'need' list? Come on, you're better than this.

As for free agency just starting, I know that. However, you may have heard about the CBA and the impact it's had upon free agency. Perhaps if you'd read my post which led to PatsfaninPittsburgh's idiotic response, you'd have seen this portion:

isn't going to appease people who don't want rely on cut players and UFDAs.

While I personally don't care how the positions get filled as long as it's done adequately, some people don't want to gamble on finding replacements in the trash bins of other teams. The past couple of seasons have certainly not done much to make such people think it would all work out swimmingly this time.

 

[JackBauer]

I'm not sure that Ohrnberger won't end up as the backup C, we'll see about that. We also still have Bussey at OG from last year's draft.

For some reason, I thought he played OT, but you're right. So we have two unknowns right now at OG... odds are, one of the two, at least, will pan out.

You may be right at Ohrnberger at OC. He's a bit diminutive at 6'2" so I'm not sure how that affects his projection position at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus

Everyone has questions going into the season. ...

I understand all you're posting. It has nothing to do with the post I had made, and my post wasn't insulting to anyone or anything. All I had said was that, with all the question marks, pointing to 4 picks high up in the draft wasn't going to assuage those who didn't want to rely on UDFA and other teams scraps to fill the remaining holes in the lineup, especially since you can't really expect all four picks to be ready as game 1 starters. You made an idiotic attack post for no reason other than it having been my post. It was a pathetic move on your part.

You people love to ***** about my posts, but why the hell shouldn't I respond in kind when you post the sort of crap you did?