Burgess trade - 2010 3rd and (4th or 5th)

[TimU]

This certainly addresses an obvious need. The price is relatively high compared to to other similar transactions (think Moss), but if the guy plays 70% of the downs and registers 10 sacks it will be well worth it. I think NFL teams sometimes overvalue picks relative to veteran players.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Green plays 3-4 DE. Burgess will be playing 3-4 OLB.. Not sure how one affects the other here.. Could you explain?

I don't think Burgess would often (if ever), cover Jarvis' position on the field. I think Jarvis will be moving because of his cap hit. I also think we have a lot of young talent, and are currently looking at a veteran DE. All this points to Jarvis leaving.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How would it leave the Pats thin at DE? They have Mike Wright and LeKevin Smith, not to mention Richard, Brace, and Pryor.

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet but why is Green's status with the team impacted by the Burgess acq.? Look at the line now.

Warren
Wilfork
Sey
Brace
Wright
Smith
Green

IMO Gree's status with the team is already in jeopardy b/c he had a down year and is in the last year of his current deal- not because of the Burgess acq. They'll still need 7 DLs- wheather they dump Green for Carter for cap/performance reasons-IMO not b/c of positional inventory.

 

[Urgent]

So the Patriots can trade their fourth for any pick in the fifth round plus anything, and be better off.

That sort of suggests that they will be able to find a trade.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think Burgess would often (if ever), cover Jarvis' position on the field. I think Jarvis will be moving because of his cap hit. I also think we have a lot of young talent, and are currently looking at a veteran DE. All this points to Jarvis leaving.

Or the Pats are looking at a Veteran DE because Warren isn't healthy yet from his two surgeries and Seymour hasn't been on the practice field much.

To be honest, I thought that the Pats would be moving Green back in March/April, prior to the draft. But, at issue now, is whether or not they've paid him the 2.3 million roster bonus he's due. If they have, then I'd be surprised that they would just eat that money. If they haven't, then I could see them shipping him somewhere that wouldn't hurt us. Like to St. Louis or Arizona or San Fran.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Glad to see the move. Knew BB would give the picks if he saw the value. Having an established pass rush OLB gives a guy like The Crab a chance to develop without haste. It's time to win another ring and cap the decade.

 

[Urgent]

So do we know whether the $1.5mm bonus has been paid?

The Burgess comp is reportedly $2mm salary and $1.5mm roster bonus.
I have not heard with certainty whether the roster bonus was already due.

 

[Urgent]

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that the $1.5mm bonus has already been paid:

Burgess is in the final year of his contract that pays him $2 million on top of a $1.5 million roster bonus that was already paid.

SFGate: Raiders Silver and Black Blog : Camp notes: Wednesday

Here's an Oakland blogger reporting that the roster bonus has already been paid:

In a contract year and after having already been paid a roster bonus in the neighborhood of $1.5 million, Burgess is attempting to force the hand of Al Davis. Big mistake!

Derrick Burgess is Not a Cable Guy | Just Blog Baby | An Oakland Raiders Blog

If the Chronicle is correct, that's big news - and also partly explains the higher-than-anticipated draft pick cost.

Given that Burgess will be replacing another player on the roster, then, the cap impact will be around $1.5mm. If you assume he replaces Ninkovich or Tully Banta Cain, whose cap cost is around $520K on vet min, then you are swapping a $500K cost for a $2mm cost.

It appears that the Patriots will only see the $1.5mm cap cost increase, not the $3mm cap cost increase had the bonus been still due.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

The only think I don't like about the trade is the possibility of paying a 3rd and a 4th/5th for a guy that might leave as an UFA after this season.

I don't think this move really changes the situation for Jarvis Green. Mark me down in the camp that believes Green is a very solid backup and a luxury to have on our team. I've heard some chatter about injuries along the Dline in the camp reports, so I don't see how Green is expendable at this point.

He is in the last year of his contract, so he is like to play well this year. On the flip side, that also means that his window for having trade value is closing, so I can see the argument to move him if we think we don't need him.

Personally, I would keep him. I want a SB championship this year more than I want an extra draft pick next year.

 

[NE39]

The fact Belichick left such a big hole in the middle of the draft leads one to think he is confident he can fill that in. With the extra seconds, and the possibility they can make a trade prior to the start of the season to receive return on some quality depth, they can still be in position to have a complete draft next year.

I think that is a mitigating factor in the Burgess trade. They still have a good chance at a full draft next year, and they were able to get a player who can shore up the biggest weakness on the team this year. It really makes sense, even if you believe they paid a premium price. Given how hard it is to find good pass-rushers, I'm not sure that price is so bad.

 

[NE39]

It should also be noted that if Burgess performs well and leaves in FA next year, the Pats may be able to recoup a draft pick in 2011 via the compensary process (assuming there is no lockout). That is another factor offsetting the cost.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It should also be noted that if Burgess performs well and leaves in FA next year, the Pats may be able to recoup a draft pick in 2011 via the compensary process (assuming there is no lockout). That is another factor offsetting the cost.

The CBA specifies that there must be a 2011 draft, even if there is an impending lockout.

 

[Bostonian1962]

There is 100% chance that the Patriots acquire a 5th round pick..............

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I don't think Burgess would often (if ever), cover Jarvis' position on the field. I think Jarvis will be moving because of his cap hit. I also think we have a lot of young talent, and are currently looking at a veteran DE. All this points to Jarvis leaving.

I checked patscap to get a feel for Jarvis' cap hit and value to the team...
-- Miguel is projecting Jarvis to have reached more than one "escalator," in his contract which would have required NE pay him a $2.3M roster bonus - a number Miguel is already charging to the cap since most roster bonuses are paid on or shortly after the new League year starts (March in this case).
-- If Jarvis was worth $2.3M in March, and he's still on the team, it strongly suggests the Pats feel he is worth the cap hit of $5.4M (Roster Bonus + Salary).

I'd say any trade of Jarvis Green is currently a misreading of the numbers or a pipe dream. Jarvis "started" ten games in 2007 (anybody remember what was special about that season), and despite nagging injuries, he still started three in 2008. He's healthy, he's getting veteran camp breaks to help keep him that way, and he's the kind of DL NE will very much want if, as expected, this offense reverts to 2007 effectiveness forcing opponents to play 'catch up' in the passing game.

Trading Jarvis makes no sense if Miguel's numbers are to be trusted...and I'm not going to be the one to suggest otherwise with Miguel's track record. :snob:

 

[RobertWeathers]

I checked patscap to get a feel for Jarvis' cap hit and value to the team...
-- Miguel is projecting Jarvis to have reached more than one "escalator," in his contract which would have required NE pay him a $2.3M roster bonus - a number Miguel is already charging to the cap since most roster bonuses are paid on or shortly after the new League year starts (March in this case).
-- If Jarvis was worth $2.3M in March, and he's still on the team, it strongly suggests the Pats feel he is worth the cap hit of $5.4M (Roster Bonus + Salary).

I'd say any trade of Jarvis Green is currently a misreading of the numbers or a pipe dream. Jarvis "started" ten games in 2007 (anybody remember what was special about that season), and despite nagging injuries, he still started three in 2008. He's healthy, he's getting veteran camp breaks to help keep him that way, and he's the kind of DL NE will very much want if, as expected, this offense reverts to 2007 effectiveness forcing opponents to play 'catch up' in the passing game.

Trading Jarvis makes no sense if Miguel's numbers are to be trusted...and I'm not going to be the one to suggest otherwise with Miguel's track record. :snob:

I stand corrected too. I thought the roster bonus was to be paid out Aug 15. Thought i read that somewhere. either way, looks liek BB likes JV and still views him as a key contributer to the D-line rotation.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I checked patscap to get a feel for Jarvis' cap hit and value to the team...
-- Miguel is projecting Jarvis to have reached more than one "escalator," in his contract which would have required NE pay him a $2.3M roster bonus - a number Miguel is already charging to the cap since most roster bonuses are paid on or shortly after the new League year starts (March in this case).
-- If Jarvis was worth $2.3M in March, and he's still on the team, it strongly suggests the Pats feel he is worth the cap hit of $5.4M (Roster Bonus + Salary).

I'd say any trade of Jarvis Green is currently a misreading of the numbers or a pipe dream. Jarvis "started" ten games in 2007 (anybody remember what was special about that season), and despite nagging injuries, he still started three in 2008. He's healthy, he's getting veteran camp breaks to help keep him that way, and he's the kind of DL NE will very much want if, as expected, this offense reverts to 2007 effectiveness forcing opponents to play 'catch up' in the passing game.

Trading Jarvis makes no sense if Miguel's numbers are to be trusted...and I'm not going to be the one to suggest otherwise with Miguel's track record. :snob:

Good info. I didn't know we had paid so much already.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I stand corrected too. I thought the roster bonus was to be paid out Aug 15. Thought i read that somewhere. either way, looks liek BB likes JV and still views him as a key contributer to the D-line rotation.

Think about it. Any agent who had a roster bonus kick in on August 15th would have a fool for a client. Roster bonuses are designed to insure you get something even if you end up elsewhere or out of work come August. Having a roster bonus there would be begging to be cut on the eve of the season, most players worst nightmare.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

The bad news is that Pierre Woods has failed to seize the opportunity. He's the big loser in this deal.

Great trade, btw!!! :singing:

 

[RobertWeathers]

Think about it. Any agent who had a roster bonus kick in on August 15th would have a fool for a client. Roster bonuses are designed to insure you get something even if you end up elsewhere or out of work come August. Having a roster bonus there would be begging to be cut on the eve of the season, most players worst nightmare.

Agree 100%. Typically they are paid in the Feb/march timeframe. When I read it, I assumed that there was a hefty cap hit if the bonus was not paid. Maybe they were talking about a restructuring...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The bad news is that Pierre Woods has failed to seize the opportunity. He's the big loser in this deal.

Seems a bit much to expect him to "seize the opportunity" if they haven't played a game. Woods "seized" an opportunity last Fall and forced the coaches to reassess him in less than three total games of play - part of that reassessment involved shipping a starting, and aging, OLB to Kansas City. Burgess has been a trade option dating back before the draft, this trade is only a reflection on Woods inexperience, not on his performance in limited game reps. We should get a more definitive answer this Fall.