Bruschi to Ochocinco: 'Join the system, buddy'

[Armchair Quarterback]

Why compare him to Galloway? Why not compare him to, say, Gaffney?

As I asked you before, why are you comparing him to Galloway and not Gaffney?

Agenda, much?

Right. But clearly Galloway and Hayes had similar expectations

Doesn't change the fact that Gaffney did just about nothing for an entire season before turning into a productive receiver.

You can claim that they had higher expectations than Gaffney, but they were still lower than Johnson.

Regardless, how is this relevant? The point is that some receivers are capable of acclimating to the system while others are not. Furthermore, it's established that for most it takes a good deal of time to learn the system, and thus any pronouncements at this time would be premature and unwarranted.

You are the one who demanded an answer regarding Gaffney, I didn't bring him up you did. By the way Gaffney was not signed until October 9th of 2006. The Patriots played on October 8th had a bye week and didn't play again until October 22.

You follow that up by saying "Furthermore, it's established that for most it takes a good deal of time to learn the system."

(Moss, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez didn't seem to have much of a problem)

And

"The point is that some receivers are capable of acclimating to the system while others are not"

Think that might make the comparison to Galloway and Hayes relevant? If not maybe these quotes will.

Ten Worst Patriots Signings under Belichick | Comcast SportsNet ? CSNNE.com

By October, Hayes lamented that he was having trouble grasping the offense. After that, he had trouble finding the field as he was deactivated for three straight games.

He was released after the 2002 season. He caught a dozen passes.

Ten Worst Patriots Signings under Belichick | Comcast SportsNet ? CSNNE.com

The moment you figured the longtime home-run threat wasn't going to work as a Patriots wide receiver came in the second week of the 2009 season just seven months after he'd signed. After an incompletion against the Jets, cameras caught Tom Brady screaming at Galloway, "It's not that (flipping) hard!!!!"

Apparently it was. Galloway caught seven passes in his first three games with the Patriots, was benched for the next three and then released. (Released Oct 20, 2009)

 

[mb6592]

Re: Bruschis take on the Miami game

His comments are not out of line and if 85 is to become the type of player we all hope he'll become, it won't matter to him either.

Bottom line, while many are arguing over how far along he should be, in 3-4 more games we should all be on the same page. By then, the consensus should be that he should be producing at a #1 (preferably) or #2 (at minimum) wr level (albeit in a Patriots system). I mean, he is making 5 f---ing million dollars.

And for anyone saying he's (Bruschi) not a Pat anymore - WTF is your problem? Of course he's a Pat and he'll die a Pat. Because of him (and the rest of the core group) the Pats are now NFL royalty - and by extension so are their fans

 

[Deus Irae]

You follow that up by saying "Furthermore, it's established that for most it takes a good deal of time to learn the system."

(Moss, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez didn't seem to have much of a problem)

This is incorrect. All of them had full offseasons to learn the playbook.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: Bruschi slams ocho

The comments seemed a bit harsh to me, but Chad is a good receiver who should hopefully get it together at some point.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bruschi came off as a dbag (I listened to it live), but it's hard to argue with what he is saying.

No, it's not.

 

[Froob]

Love Bruschi but can't agree with him here. Chad's been working hard according to Brady and Bill if that means anything. I don't think Chad even replies to any of his tweets. I still think Chad will get it together.

 

[Ring 6]

You might want to consider that I dont give a squirrle turd about what you or any other loser on the internet thinks about me.

You probably should or it will be a waste of time for you to post here.

Ocho is old and slow. Both facts.

No actually both are your opinion.

Debunk what I said or dont bother quoting me. Chief.

Just a suggestion, but antagonizing everyone who posts isnt a good way to get your point across

 

[Deus Irae]

Well for me it is..

Stinkos "happy to be here" shtick is getting tired IMO.

Not as tired as your weak trolling on the subject

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

This is incorrect. All of them had full offseasons to learn the playbook.

There is nothing incorrect about saying Moss, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez didn't seem to have much of a problem. And if you want to use 2 minicamps as an excuse for Ochocinco not grasping the playbook how about considering Hernandez and Gronk were 12 years old when Ochocinco entered the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

There is nothing incorrect about saying Moss, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez didn't seem to have much of a problem. And if you want to use 2 minicamps as an excuse for Ochocinco not grasping the playbook how about considering Hernandez and Gronk were 12 years old when Ochocinco entered the NFL.

You're now changing your argument. You responded to the TIME issue with those names. Those players had in the neighborhood of 6 months (sometimes more) to get it down, while Johnson's trying to do it in a matter of weeks. Now you're using the arguments of the TEs ages as if that level of experience for Johnson is supposed to make him magically grasp an entire offensive playbook overnight or something?

It's pathetic that you've got to try going there just to get in a stupid bash on Johnson.

 

[Observer]

Okay, so as far as I understand it Bruschi is wicked pissed because Ochocinco tweeted something positive about the team. It is because either you are not allowed to say good things about your teammates if you are on the team or you are only allowed to say good things about your teammates if you happen to do well yourself?

... alright buddy... :bricks:

 

[shmessy]

MoGame, is that you?

You nailed it.

It WAS Mogamedogz, who was given a one week vacation for posting drunk after the game Monday night. Tattoit, won't be seen ever again.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Re: Bruschis take on the Miami game

Whats the record on starting threads? I got 2 more.

Bruschi on Tap -- New England Patriots impressive in opener - ESPN Boston

thought it was a bit harsh, but I hate ocho's twittering and he has shown much on the field for us.

by the way, nice pic!

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Bruschis take on the Miami game

thought it was a bit harsh, but I hate ocho's twittering and he has shown much on the field for us.

by the way, nice pic!

Welcome back. It's been a while since you've been posting. I hope all is well for you and yours.

 

[RayClay]

Polian has stated many times that 3 years is required to learn a passing offense. It's been a few weeks.

Oh please. Why did we pick him up if it's going to take three years. He's 33.

Check out Deion Branch's first year, first game etc. It takes hard work and study, not "trying hard".

 

[RodThePat]

Oh please. Why did we pick him up if it's going to take three years. He's 33.

Check out Deion Branch's first year, first game etc. It takes hard work and study, not "trying hard".

Every comparison to another receiver is absolutely devoid of meaning unless they produced a lot better whilst having the same amount of time Chad has had to learn the system.

 

[edboc]

You're now changing your argument. You responded to the TIME issue with those names. Those players had in the neighborhood of 6 months (sometimes more) to get it down, while Johnson's trying to do it in a matter of weeks. Now you're using the arguments of the TEs ages as if that level of experience for Johnson is supposed to make him magically grasp an entire offensive playbook overnight or something?

It's pathetic that you've got to try going there just to get in a stupid bash on Johnson.

Couldn't a problem be that Ocho isn't used to/may not be quickly & accurately read what coverage, blitz, or whatever the defense is doing, in order to properly process what route he needs to run or what his responsibility is on each play? I've obviously never played football or wide receiver, I assume in most offensive systems in the NFL, and probably the one that was run under Bob Bratkowski with the Bengals, typically require the X or Z receiver to not have any (or many) option routes. You just need to know what route you're running or what your blocking responsibility is on a running play or a screen pass, etc.

 

[shmessy]

Oh please. Why did we pick him up if it's going to take three years. He's 33.

Check out Deion Branch's first year, first game etc. It takes hard work and study, not "trying hard".

......and OTA's.....and minicamps ..........and a full training camp......and not having 6 other killer options for Brady to throw to (Deion was competing only against Troy Brown, David Patten and a bunch of JAGS for throws in 2002 - it's not the same group level today)........

By game 8 this year, he'll be a very serviceable #3 WR for the Patriots. The Pats ran a 2TE 2WR set much of the night Monday night, much of it out of a no huddle. Of course, Ochocinco wasn't going to get many snaps.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You're now changing your argument. You responded to the TIME issue with those names. Those players had in the neighborhood of 6 months (sometimes more) to get it down, while Johnson's trying to do it in a matter of weeks. Now you're using the arguments of the TEs ages as if that level of experience for Johnson is supposed to make him magically grasp an entire offensive playbook overnight or something?

It's pathetic that you've got to try going there just to get in a stupid bash on Johnson.

You said "Moss, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez didn't seem to have much of a problem." was incorrect. You were wrong.

You don't think a ten year vet should have a bit of an edge over 20 year old rookies when it comes to learning the playbook? Really?

1 week in April, May, June and 3 weeks in July is at best is a 3 month head start. Ocho still had TC, he's not the first person in history to only have TC.
Woodhead didn't even have that.

Last I checked, the season is still on so he needs to learn his playbook now rather than later. They're not going to put the season on hold until he gets it.

I'm not bashing Ocho, I think he looks lost and clueless out there, the same look I've seen on Galloway, Hayes and Chad Jackson. I hope he proves me wrong but I see what I see.

 

[Deus Irae]

Couldn't a problem be that Ocho isn't used to/may not be quickly & accurately read what coverage, blitz, or whatever the defense is doing, in order to properly process what route he needs to run or what his responsibility is on each play? I've obviously never played football or wide receiver, I assume in most offensive systems in the NFL, and probably the one that was run under Bob Bratkowski with the Bengals, typically require the X or Z receiver to not have any (or many) option routes. You just need to know what route you're running or what your blocking responsibility is on a running play or a screen pass, etc.

If there is a problem, it could be one or more of a number of things. The point is that the mere fact that he's still working on picking things up at this point is not proof that there is a problem beyond the normal need of receivers who come to the Patriots, which is time.