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Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retire


Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

The Chargers could very conceivably win this game. Outside of Pats/Jets (for obvious reasons), this is the only TNF game I have looked forward to this year.

I don't know if it would be more about the awesomeness of Brady/BB or about the pathetic nature of the AFC, but it would certainly be interesting to see the Patriots get the #1 overall spot for the playoffs when seemingly half the team is on IR, or otherwise unavailable.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

I don't know if it would be more about the awesomeness of Brady/BB or about the pathetic nature of the AFC, but it would certainly be interesting to see the Patriots get the #1 overall spot for the playoffs when seemingly half the team is on IR, or otherwise unavailable.

I can't be the only one that thinks the patriots could have ran the if they stayed somewhat healthy.

This is the most complete roster the patriots have had since 2004.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

The Chargers could very conceivably win this game. Outside of Pats/Jets (for obvious reasons), this is the only TNF game I have looked forward to this year.

Considering all the weird games and results on Thursday games this year, I definitely wouldn't rule out a Charger win. Their offense is definitely good enough to play a track meet with the Broncos with the Broncos' mediocre defense.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

There is finally a good game on a thursday night and I have to work, don't fail me nfl.com
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

There is really no test for concussion, as I understand it. The "test" is a sideline protocol used to determine whether or not a player should return, based on the theory that the most serious concussions are accompanied by amnesia or cognitive timing difficulties. But a concussion doesn't necessary present that way. Nor does it present that way immediately. So, you often have players who can pass the test right after a hit, but then develop symptoms that make it clear they are concussed. For those saying, "he passed the test," the "test" seems to be crap. Every week, several players are assessed and then cleared to go back on to the field only later to be determined to have sustained a concussion. Cromartie and apparently Solder were both in that category last week, along with probably a few others, and Welker of course a few weeks ago. Of the 8 to 12 concussions that are reported every week, many of them are players that finished the prior game and who were not reported as concussed until the injury report the next week.

The problem is simply not getting any better, or maybe it is but it's still horrible. 172 concussions last year, and 114 so far this year (not counting today's injury reports). And those are just the reported ones. I'm sure there are plenty of players who don't admit to having their bell rung.

I know this thread is about Welker and not about concussions generally, but I'm starting to get pretty despondent about the situation. People saying Welker should retire. Nate Solder is a 25 year old first round draft pick now working on his third concussion (that we know about) in less than three years. Two years of super enhanced concussion protocols, a 3/4 of a billion dollar settlement, and concussed players are still being allowed back on the field and we're pushing 200 each year. To make it worse, the rules we've put in to try to fix the situation are causing horrible leg injuries.

The issue has been addressed ad nauseum, and I'm probably breaking a zillion rules by hijacking this thread to talk about it, but another thread is a waste of time. I just don't know where we're supposed to go from here and am venting.
 
Re: Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to r

There is really no test for concussion, as I understand it. The "test" is a sideline protocol used to determine whether or not a player should return, based on the theory that the most serious concussions are accompanied by amnesia or cognitive timing difficulties. But a concussion doesn't necessary present that way. Nor does it present that way immediately. So, you often have players who can pass the test right after a hit, but then develop symptoms that make it clear they are concussed. For those saying, "he passed the test," the "test" seems to be crap. Every week, several players are assessed and then cleared to go back on to the field only later to be determined to have sustained a concussion. Cromartie and apparently Solder were both in that category last week, along with probably a few others, and Welker of course a few weeks ago. Of the 8 to 12 concussions that are reported every week, many of them are players that finished the prior game and who were not reported as concussed until the injury report the next week.

The problem is simply not getting any better, or maybe it is but it's still horrible. 172 concussions last year, and 114 so far this year (not counting today's injury reports). And those are just the reported ones. I'm sure there are plenty of players who don't admit to having their bell rung.

I know this thread is about Welker and not about concussions generally, but I'm starting to get pretty despondent about the situation. People saying Welker should retire. Nate Solder is a 25 year old first round draft pick now working on his third concussion (that we know about) in less than three years. Two years of super enhanced concussion protocols, a 3/4 of a billion dollar settlement, and concussed players are still being allowed back on the field and we're pushing 200 each year. To make it worse, the rules we've put in to try to fix the situation are causing horrible leg injuries.

The issue has been addressed ad nauseum, and I'm probably breaking a zillion rules by hijacking this thread to talk about it, but another thread is a waste of time. I just don't know where we're supposed to go from here and am venting.

The trenches will never be concussion free. A few 300# men firing off from three/four point stances are bound to suffer head trauma. As many people have stated, maybe the solid helmet is to blame.

In not sure if the stats are available, but having played both rugby and football, putting on a helmet seems to instill a minor sense of invincibility. Do the professional ranks of rugby in Australia see any where close to the same rate of concussions? Being too lazy for a Google search myself, I would hazard a strong guess that the nfl precludes a much higher risk to head trauma.

The new rule emphasis sucks. I can't imagine they have done all that much in preventing concussions (on qbs maybe), a handful may have been prevented on receivers (although launching has been a point of emphasis for few years it seems).

Leg injuries are now on the rise. Period. For whatever reason. Maybe that is PED's, maybe it is defenders going low, maybe it is a mix, and maybe it is coincidence.

If the league truly wants to prevent as many injuries as possible, launching (arms to the side, helmet leading, no wrap up) needs to be cracked down upon. Maybe make it a fine minimum, if a major injury is caused, suspension without pay for the duration of caused injury for a maximum of the rest of the season.

A head injury caused by two men in the trenches is an unfortunate evil of the game. A Merriweather type hit (the ravens te a few years back) sees the offender sitting for the duration of the caused injury. However, a concussion caused by a form tackle on a qb/wr, no flag, no suspension. The hit on drew brees a few weeks ago comes to mind. Vicious hit, however initiated at the shoulder level. I believe it was against the niners. A good football play was negated and flagged (and fined if I remember correctly) and that is a shame.

While the recent settlement causes the league to take action, they have done a terrible job of taking total player safety into account. While repeated head trauma carries a long term sentence for players, the resulting emphasis to "go low" has been a direct result for many career effecting injuries in a league where shelf life is short enough as is.

The league is in an unfortunate position, but it is their own fault. The recent settlement has placed an inordinate emphasis on "head safety." While brain injury is the most long term, and post career effecting injury, the rise in leg (knees), would be the most earning potential impacting injuries today.

If this is the avenue the league wishes to go down, they should at least allow players to take advantage of the most effective recovery treatments. Velvet deer antler spray (or whatever the Hell), hgh, and they should also be contributing heavily to any stem cell rejunative therapy research currently being conducted. The latter being a possible aide in recovery to anything from ligament damage to brain damage. That would be a true step in ensuring quality of life for retired players.

As it is, the safe guards set in place for concussed players have obviously failed already this season. The penalties to avoid concussions have caused a few (at minimum) extra career affecting (as in wage earning potential) injuries this year.

Again, take launching, whether high or low out if the game. Ease up on the lame penalties and fines for "high," good football plays. I'm not advocating for a return to the age if clothes lines, but let safeties do their job without forcing them to drop their helmets and pads towards the turf.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

I'm amazed that better helmets or other equipment have not been designed to rectify or lessen the concussion problem. I know it's difficult physiologically, but I don't buy that it can't be done. With a can do attitude and enough money and effort, there should be a way to make significant improvements.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

Two years of super enhanced concussion protocols, a 3/4 of a billion dollar settlement, and concussed players are still being allowed back on the field and we're pushing 200 each year. To make it worse, the rules we've put in to try to fix the situation are causing horrible leg injuries.

The issue has been addressed ad nauseum, and I'm probably breaking a zillion rules by hijacking this thread to talk about it, but another thread is a waste of time. I just don't know where we're supposed to go from here and am venting.

The rules making certain hits illegal are inadequate to stop concussions. That isn't news - they weren't really supposed to stop them as much as eliminate future liability claims. The rules and the protocols now in place make it pretty impossible for current players to someday sue saying the NFL knew how bad concussions were and did nothing. It was a business decision, much the same as the rules to protect QBs is a business decision. They rules now in place also are so murky that they make the game impossible to officiate.

It doesn't mean some things like launching at guy's heads or having a doctor stopping the Welker's of the world from going back in with a concussion aren't things that should be done even though players themselves are against it.

The only way to stop concussions is make it a 7 on 7 flag football game. It is a fast, physical, violent sport which at a minimum probably has 6 helmet to helmet hits every play sine defenses rush at least 3 and every o-line/d-lineman is hitting his guy helmet to helmet. At the end of the day, players care more about what happened to Alex Smith who was playing well last year then got a concussion and lost his job while going through the league protocols than they do about what will happen to them in 10-20-30 years.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

I'm amazed that better helmets or other equipment have not been designed to rectify or lessen the concussion problem. I know it's difficult physiologically, but I don't buy that it can't be done. With a can do attitude and enough money and effort, there should be a way to make significant improvements.

As woolster mentioned, I think the solid helmet is to blame. It may look uglier/bulkier, but would having a soft outer layer on-top/around the solid shell reduce the force of the impact (since the outer layer on both player's helmets would absorb some of it)? I'm thinking some kind of foam or gel type coating (with leather or cloth covering it)
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

I'm amazed that better helmets or other equipment have not been designed to rectify or lessen the concussion problem. I know it's difficult physiologically, but I don't buy that it can't be done. With a can do attitude and enough money and effort, there should be a way to make significant improvements.

You can't stop the brain to hit the skull when you have motion and sudden stop.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

You can't stop the brain to hit the skull when you have motion and sudden stop.

You can't stop it but you can lessen the force. An egg hitting the floor or hitting foam pad from the same height.

I'm not saying this is the fix since it would have to be scientifically proven but adding a rubberized coating to the outer shell of the helmet, making the helmet two layers with a gap between to deaden the impact or putting mini shock absorbers between the two layers. The solution is out there and whoever comes up with it and proves it is going to be a rich man.

I agree you're never going to eliminate concussions but perhaps you can make the minor ones not happen and the major ones minor.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

An under rated factor in the concussion discussion is the PED problem in the NFL. Crack down on PEDs and concussions go down right away. Of course the Nfl will never admit it has a PED problem
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

In light of the fact that Ms Jackie is a charter member of the Ryan/Shaughnessy/Buckley/Borges fan club for Bill Belichick & the Pats, I'd bet two things: 1) WW was still a Pat when that advice was rendered, and 2) now that Wes is a Bronco, Jackie has changed her mind.


Welker was a free agent when she gave him the advice, I have absolutely no doubt she was sincere in giving him that advice, and overall i think she is one of the best sportswriters I have come across, and I have never smelled any agenda stink from her at all, and that is a rare attribute among the media. Most of them have axes to grind and don't ever waste the opportunity to grind them, that's why guys like Borges and Shaunessy are so worthless despite their ability to write.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

You can't stop the brain to hit the skull when you have motion and sudden stop.

Correct. It's simple physics.

Momentum = mass x velocity = force x time.

The trick is to make the "collision" (i.e., the time it takes for the brain to come to a stop) last longer, so that it results in a smaller force. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the force that results in a concussion lasts X milliseconds. [Please note: I have no idea what the actual length is.]

The same principle is at work in the crumple zone in a car.

If you double the length of time, the resulting force drops in half.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

They could also remove the hard candy shell that turns a lot of the safety equipment into weapons... Actually enforce the crown of the helmet rule and require all other pads to be soft.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

Get rid of the pads and helmets.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

Get rid of the pads and helmets.

Sebastien Chabal likes this.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

Correct. It's simple physics.

Momentum = mass x velocity = force x time.

The trick is to make the "collision" (i.e., the time it takes for the brain to come to a stop) last longer, so that it results in a smaller force. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the force that results in a concussion lasts X milliseconds. [Please note: I have no idea what the actual length is.]

The same principle is at work in the crumple zone in a car.

If you double the length of time, the resulting force drops in half.

Yeah I remember having this on engineering 1st year, physics, classical mechanics.
3 types of collision right, elastic, inelastic and totally inelastic. It seems to me if i'm not mistaken that a helmet to helmet collision is elastic like 2 pool balls colliding.

The time is really a factor, as you can see in racing competitions like Formula 1 when a driver collides with a wall, even with tyres protection, and the car suddenly stops from 200Km/H to 0 in 1 second or less, they got concussions even without hitting the head just because of this fast motion reduction.
 
Re: Broncos not ruling Welker (concussion) out for Thursday; writer asks Wes to retir

Wes Welker is a grown man, he knows the risks.

There is a responsibility to remove unnecessary risk, not to remove all risk. The NFL carries risk of broken bones, concussions and other ailments. The players know it, it is inherent in the job. Just as fireman, police, oil workers, soldiers, and all manner of other jobs have inherent risk. We mitigate those risks where we can- equipment, helmets, etc but the risk is still there and people still die and get hurt.
 


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