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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.hahahahahah!!! Welker rules!
F the doubters.
Anyway back on topic; I don't think this has been posted
that looks extremely awesome.Anyway back on topic; I don't think this has been posted
If Wes can fully return by early September (three months away), then I think you might have to give serious thought to at least sending out trade feelers for Moss. Like Seymour, it looks increasingly unlikely that Moss will be back next season. With Welker, Edelman, Holt, Tate, Price, and Patten, you have six fairly sure-handed receivers. None of them can come close to stretching the field like Moss can, but that is not how the Patriots won Super Bowls. Brady won them by throwing to the open man - whether it was Branch, Givens, Troy, or Patten - and with some good playcalling and a respectable running game, taking shots downfield when the defense was off-balance, not just chucking it up to a well-covered Moss.
If trading Moss can precipitate bringing in a respectable running back (or other player) either now or in the future (2011 Draft), then I think it is something you have to consider.
It really seems as though the future of Moss, Maroney, Light, and/or Kaczur may be up the air with this team.
If Price and/or Tate show they should be getting playing time, and Patten and/or Holt show they still have something left, then roster spots are going to come at a steep, steep premium at the wide receiver position, once you add Edelman, Moss, Welker, and then your special teamers - Aiken and Slater - to the mix. When that happens, you almost always see a guy going on the trading block.
Price, Tate, Welker, and Edelman aren't going to get cut. Belichick isn't going to cut Holt or Patten if they can provide a veteran presence, run precise routes, and show solid hands. Who does that leave? A 33-year old wide receiver who is in the final year of his contract, has arguably shown diminishing skills and/or effort over the past three seasons, has publicly stated his future is in doubt with the team, and would definitely have some trade value on the open market.
Just sayin'.
So was Lawyer, so was Bledsoe, so was Seymour, so was Rodney, so was Bruschi, so was Willie, so was Vrabel, so was Troy, so was Dillon, so was Adam, so was Givens, so was Branch, so was Graham, so was Andruzzi, so was Asante, so was Woody...
Fans have short memories. The wide receiver who makes SportsCenter highlight catches and has legions of young fans thinking he is what made the Patriots' dynasty has won zero rings with the team.
The fact that the elementary schoolers and middle schoolers of today growing up thinking that Randy Moss and Tom Brady are what the "winning" Patriots are really all about is somewhat troubling. Someone needs to buy them a DVD and show "way back when" when the Patriots were actually winning Super Bowls by shutting down the Colts 20-3 or pounding the rock to beat the Titans in zero degree weather. Back then it wasn't about individual players, but about out-smarting and out-physicaling opponents.
Somewhere along the way fans have gotten away from the romanticism of that success and have gotten caught up in the star of Randy Moss and Tom Brady, when it was really that sort of thing that Patriots fans mocked seven or eight years ago (Peyton to Harrison? Warner to Bruce? LT?). An effective team and scheme-based strategy to winning has taken a back seat to sheer athleticism and talent.
Trying the same approach to another season will just lead to another disappointing January where Moss goes 3, 45, 0, the running game is ineffective, the defense can't stop a QB from throwing at will, and the offense can't pull through when it counts because it's too caught up in trying to force passes to that superstar WR who "is the man."
Who was the #1 WR in 2001? Brown? Was he the prototypical "X?" No! Who was the #2 WR in 2003? There wasn't one. Who was the #3 WR in 2004? There wasn't one. Who played "X" in 2003? Branch, Givens, Brown. Who played "Z" in 2003? Branch, Givens, Brown. Who played "X" in 2004? Branch, Givens, Patten. Who played "Z" in 2004? Branch, Givens, Patten."
I don't know why we have to keep pidgeon-holing "Welker must play slot." Moss must play "X." Price/Holt/Edelman/Aiken/Galloway/Tate/Gaffney must play "F."
That's not how this offense works, or at least used to work when it was actually winning titles. There wasn't a guy who just played "#1 WR" or a guy who just played "slot WR." There were 3-4 guys who played all three-four WR positions and who were capable of catching the ball when they were open because of a well-run route and a well-called play.
I can't believe we are now caught up in how many Pro Bowl WRs the team has when we once mocked other teams for having the most Pro Bowl players and then failing in the playoffs as this team has done for the last half decade.
What the hell happened to "we're building a team, not collecting talent" or "the whole is better than the sum of its parts?"
When did we go wrong?
Welker always looks better in high resolution...
Pats1 - There are a few problems with your theorizing..
1) Welker and Tate have to prove that they are 100% healthy
2) Patten hasn't played in 2 years. And he wasn't exactly playing well the last time he suited up for the Pats. So I have a hard time putting any credence into the idea that he'll make the roster
3) How you go from talking about Welker to talking about Kaczur and Light is kinda.. um... out in left field. The Pats have always carried 4 OTs to open a season under Belichick. Right now, the 4 OTs are Light, Vollmer, LeVoir, and Kaczur. All of who are above average. I know that people who followed Welch know that he's got a very good pedigree, talent and athleticism. That MIGHT make Kaczur or LeVoir expendable. But not Light. Not with 3 brand new TEs on the roster.
4) Aiken is the person most likely to lose his position on special teams, imho. He's just not as good as Slater or the others that the Pats have.
5) I don't think Moss would have a lot of trade value at all. For the same reasons you mentioned. The diminishing returns (though he's played through injuries and a lack of talent at the WR position).
I think that the Pats and Brady are better off having a Moss/Welker combination than trying to rely on Welker, 2- 2nd year players, a rookie, and Holt. Also, considering the additions of Gronkowski and Gonzalez, it's more likely that they will be able to create the mismatches that will get Moss open, thereby increasing his effectiveness. If teams decide to cover Moss, then you are leaving mismatches underneath with Welker and the others.
Brainless Nonsense.
WRs take three years to fully develop. If Price and Tate had three years of playing experience all this Moss speculation might have the significance of a bucket of Warm Spit. Today, without that experience, it doesn't merit a shotglass full of such liquid.
The Patriots were 10-6 and the AFCE divisonal champ so they are a contender. Nor do they need to tear down and rebuild, with the prospect of a complete collapse, where such a purge might have some possibilities.
The Defensive reconstruction is actually about over, with the defensive cutdown done just before last season. The defensive low point was last season, when they slid all the way to 11th in the League. The final rebuilding defensive pieces are probably already on board and that half of the team is rising, again.
Meanwhile the Offense still needs to score to win, and Moss & Brady makes up a large piece of that.
The number 2 in 2003 started off as Patten and then became Branch. By 2004, Patten had fallen to the #4 WR behind Branch, Givens and Brown.
People are "pidgeonholing" Moss as the "X" receiver because that is what he is. The "X". And it's based on where he starts out on a majority of the plays. Sometimes, he is the Z receiver. Sometimes he is the Y, but 90% of the time, he is the "X" receiver.
Yes, it is how it works. And it's how it worked when they were winning titles. The difference is that they had 4 receivers who were very similar in ability in running the short to intermediate routes, compared to now where we have Moss who can run all the routes, including the deep ones. Welker, who runs the short routes. Edelman who also can run the short routes and should develop into a medium route runner, ala a Branch. Then you have Holt, who still has the speed to run the intermediate routes and can also run the shorter routes. Then you have Price and Tate who we don't know what they can bring just yet.
One of the things that you aren't figuring into the equation is Brady. Brady has a LOT to do with how the offense was run last year. BRADY needs to be the one to get back to spreading the ball around and not relying just on Welker and Moss. But the receivers have to show that they have the HANDS to gain Brady's confidence. Moss, Welker, Edelman, Holt and Crumpler should do that. Price, Tate (whom Brady has sung high praises of), Gonzalez and Gronkowski have to show that they can make the catch when Brady goes to them. If that happens, then you'll see the offense back similar to the 2003/2004 offense or even the 2007 offense instead of the 2009 offense.
You need to stop pretending like everyone is caught up in this "PRO BOWL" WR crap. That is you exaggerating. People still see what Moss can do and know that he can do it when he's part of a team that is running well and where he can be spelled.
"WE" didn't go wrong anywhere. You exaggerating and acting like everyone else who believes that keeping Moss is better than not keeping him is on crack is where it's wrong. Moss, NOW, is still better than 90% of the WRs in the league. And he's still the best receiver on the Patriots. You add him with the veterans like Welker, Holt, and Crumpler, as well as the rookies/youngsters like Edelman, Tate, Gonzalez, Price, and Gronkowski and you've got one of the best mixes of talent in the league. A mix that could be among the best and that should give other defenses fits.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I hope Welker is not being careless and using HGH to help him recover.