Breer believes Patriots would consider trading Mac to Raiders

[Rob0729]

Some fans equate taller to stronger arm... never mind that Mac is the same height as Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes... he's a Patriot and not Tom... so automatically he is weak. Ignoring of course scouting reports that said Tom had a weak arm exiting college.

Zappe threw a 55 yard pass at the combine without a lot of wind up... here it is (0:26 second mark) in case someone doesn't believe it.



He has plenty of arm... arm strength is so overrated in relation to decision making and processing speed it's not even funny.

The Combine is in a dome. The only way there was any wind is if they had monster size fans on.

And the thing that made Jones a first round pick and #2 in the OPOY voting was his decision making and processing speed.

 

[Tunescribe]

I will admit to being entirely perplexed every time I see someone claim that Zappe has a weaker arm than Mac. Based on what evidence? With all due respect, when I see someone claim that, I can only think to myself, “what the **** are you watching?”

Mac can very likely throw the ball further, with air under it, with no pass rush, under perfect conditions. However, I don’t see any evidence that Mac has superior arm velocity/mechanics on short to intermediate throws. And it’s nothing to do with his physical traits, but rather poor mechanics and weight transfer. If I had a nickel for every time Mac threw a 10-15 yard sideline pass that felt like it hung in the air for dangerously too long … I’d be marginally richer. Zappe’s sideline throws - and his stuff over the middle - has (to my eye) considerably more zip on it, and this seems related to his mechanics. Zappe snaps the ball. Mac floats it.

There were a handful of games where Mac demonstrated improvement with his arm zip and mechanics. The game against Minnesota (primarily the initial 2-3 quarters) is the best example. Unfortunately he couldn’t consistently sustain and build on that … old habits die hard. We’ll see how he does in his third season.

I’m not saying Zappe is perfect or necessarily the long-term answer moving forward. I tend to agree that Mac has real potential if he ever manages to put it all together and consistently correct/improve his weaknesses. But ceilings/potential matter a lot less than realized production/performance … just ask Drew Henson and Tom Brady.

You apparently missed the video breakdowns @Ian provided illustrating Bailey Zappe's lack of arm strength relative to Mac. Taken from real games that people actually watched. Check 'em out. Then you can ask yourself, "What the f*ck was I watching?"

 

[Real fan 02]

I can't imagine Bill would jettison another QB with no backup plan unless he really believes in Zappe.

Yeah.... I don't think the great BB is to favorable with ownership right now with back up plans...

 

[mgteich]

Yes, the team could sign or trade for a veteran quarterback and then trade Jones.
====================
Bill has to decide whether to continue with Jones on what may be his final run at a top team, or trade for veteran. I suppose, he could
keep Mac and decide next season. However, the time may be now. He has his OC. And there may be a QB out there that he wants.

 

[Wozzy]

The Combine is in a dome. The only way there was any wind is if they had monster size fans on.

And the thing that made Jones a first round pick and #2 in the OPOY voting was his decision making and processing speed.

Everybody at the combine throws in a dome, not everyone slings it 55 yards on a rope.

Obie will fix Mac, if not Zappe is a great fallback plan. Trading one shrinks your probability for success at the position by half. Not a great idea… besides Mac had every right to be frustrated being coached by Bozo the clown.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

Play one of the toughest schedules in the NFL, have no time to start bringing in another QB, and start again.
Not a Mac guy, and have to see how he does this year, This is non-sense stuff by Breer.
I can see anything happen at the QB position with Jones and Zappe. BB will not let this season slip away. He'll trust OB on this call.
Pats face teams that have a Combined W-L record of 156-128-3 .549 winning %
Teams change I understand, but we have 6 games we face teams with Questionable QB's.
Jets (2), Raiders, Commanders, Colts, Saints.
Rest pretty set, at this point.

 

[RIpats88]

Yes, the team could sign or trade for a veteran quarterback and then trade Jones.
====================
Bill has to decide whether to continue with Jones on what may be his final run at a top team, or trade for veteran. I suppose, he could
keep Mac and decide next season. However, the time may be now. He has his OC. And there may be a QB out there that he wants.

Name me a team who jettisoned their 1st round QB if they aren't fully developed after 2 years. Not even the Jets are. And we know now how dysfunctional and bad the Patriots offensive coaching was. It wasn't even an NFL offense they ran basically

I swear some of the takes on this board are as if people never watched an NFL game besides the Patriots with Brady. All of These are just bad takes.

 

[p8ryts]

Zappe has a very weak arm. It was the biggest knock on him coming out of college. He does some things well but he absolutely has a problem with his arm strength. See for yourself especially his last two throws.

I remember thinking Zappe was terrible in the Senior Bowl. But I also remember he looked real good in what amounted to three games as the Pats QB so I will give him equal benefit of the doubt as I give to Mac.

 

[archstanton543]

I remember thinking Zappe was terrible in the Senior Bowl. But I also remember he looked real good in what amounted to three games as the Pats QB so I will give him equal benefit of the doubt as I give to Mac.

Why? Mac's body of work is greater than that of Zappe's on the NFL level.

 

[p8ryts]

Why? Mac's body of work is greater than that of Zappe's on the NFL level.

Mac had more opportunity.

 

[Froob]

Beyond me how anyone thinks Mac was the biggest problem last year.

 

[Guts]

Beyond me how anyone thinks Mac was the biggest problem last year.

In most cases QBs get the majority of the credit when things go well and blame when things go bad.
Mac didn't play well, but he had a lot going against him
This year there's no excuses

 

[lancerman]

In most cases QBs get the majority of the credit when things go well and blame when things go bad.
Mac didn't play well, but he had a lot going against him
This year there's no excuses

Pretty much. It's also very convenient for fans to look for a quick fix to problems instead of accepting a lot of things need to be addressed. Some people couldn't accept for most of the year that Belichick screwed up that bad with his offensive coaching staff, or that the line had that many holes, or that our receivers are really that mediocre. So obviously it had to all be the QB. No it was multiple things. Mac made some bad decisions sure. But for every 10 plays, the line would screw up 3, Patricia would have a horrible predictable call on 3-4 that was instantly snuffed, another 3 the receivers wouldn't get open. There might be 2-3 plays out of every 10 where the ball was in Mac's hands and he could make a play and then if he botched on any of them it's like he went 2/10 or 1/10.

I'm not sold on Mac at all. But this isn't the year to give up on him unless you are guaranteed an improvement.

 

[raduray]

Interesting to think on. I don’t think it’ll happen but it’s not totally farfetched. Bill trades Mac for pick #38 and signs Garoppolo, then uses #14 and #38 to fill the gaps at WR or CB and tackle? Then plans for Garoppolo to start for gives Zappe a shot at the job. Or perhaps just goes with Zappe, drafts another QB, signs a cheaper vet and uses the cap on other tools.

Again, unlikely stuff but it’s interesting to think on the potential scenarios. In all likelihood it’ll be Mac in ‘23.

Given his injury history, bringing in Garopolo is akin to guaranteeing Zappe a significant number of starts.

 

[mgteich]

OPTION 1
Garappolo (3-4 year contract), Zappe

OPTION 2
Jones (2 year contract), Zappe
=========================
OPTION 1 cost more cap space and gets us a draft choice or two.
====================
I'm not at all sure that choice is all that clear. One factor is health. Another is Garappolo's compensation. Finally, there is the issue of tantrums by Jones. Maybe that OK. If there is another option, maybe not.

 

[Rob0729]

I remember thinking Zappe was terrible in the Senior Bowl. But I also remember he looked real good in what amounted to three games as the Pats QB so I will give him equal benefit of the doubt as I give to Mac.

Was he real good in three games though? Against the Packers he threw 15 passes for 99 yards and TD. Hoyer was injured on the second drive that game. Against Detriot, he passed 21 times and got 188 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT.

He had two games where he wasn't asked to do very much. One game where he was really good. And one game where he was awful.

 

[sb1]

Was he real good in three games though? Against the Packers he threw 15 passes for 99 yards and TD. Hoyer was injured on the second drive that game. Against Detriot, he passed 21 times and got 188 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT.

He had two games where he wasn't asked to do very much. One game where he was really good. And one game where he was awful.

The Browns game was good… but he also benefited from almost 7 yards of YAC per catch so how good was it really?

I wouldn’t say he was good vs Detroit. The offense managed only one TD when the defense spotted them six fourth down stops. That’s not any better than they looked all season.

 

[Rob0729]

The Browns game was good… but he also benefited from almost 7 yards of YAC per catch so how good was it really?

I wouldn’t say he was good vs Detroit. The offense managed only one TD when the defense spotted them six fourth down stops. That’s not any better than they looked all season.

Patricia dumbed down the offense for Zappe. The Pro-Zappe crowd wouldn't admit it. But when Zappe was in the game was the only time until towards the end of the season where Patricia/Judge/Belichick actually geared the offense for the QB and not forcing the QB to run the offense they wanted to run.

I don't blame Patricia for giving Zappe an offense where he can be successful and not make a lot of mistakes. I blame him for not doing something similiar for Jones.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes, the team could sign or trade for a veteran quarterback and then trade Jones.
====================
Bill has to decide whether to continue with Jones on what may be his final run at a top team, or trade for veteran. I suppose, he could
keep Mac and decide next season. However, the time may be now. He has his OC. And there may be a QB out there that he wants.

I honestly don't feel BB has complete say as he once did.. so RK will make the call on that... I believe the team wants to see how Mac does this season... because even if they traded Mac still will have to pay a vet 25 million plus...

Mac Is on a team friendly contract right now.. so senseless to trade him. 2023 is an important season!

 

[jdlboot14]

Ludicrous across the board to suggest trading or giving up on Mac.
BB may have been frustrated with him at times during the season. But upon reflection, it's clear the entire top brass saw that it wasn't his fault, it was BB's stupid personnel decisions (that every fan in NE knew from day 1).
I think BB has properly self-evaluated and now tasked BOB with getting the best out of Mac.
I think Mac will have every chance to prove himself next season, and I think he'll do well enough to play his 4th year where it will really be seen whether he gets a 2nd contract.