Bob Sanders - The Colts D

[BelichickFan]

For a while now, noone has quite been able to figure out why the Colts D is as good as it is. (They've allowed 95 points to our 120, in one less game.) On paper you should be able to run it down their throats, but that doesn't work. I agree with most everything on this thread. (The Martz quote is important.) This year is all about having too many weapons for their defense to handle. I don't buy the idea that now that we have Adalius, we'll hold the Colts to 10 points.

Although your stats are correct, it is important to remember that of our 120 points allowed, only 45 have been in first halves - and let's face it, the scores in second halves of our game are a true anomaly with the ridiculous leads we've had.

Now, that said, you're right, both teams will do lots of scoring. We've never had trouble scoring against the Colts - even when we lose - and there's no reason for that to change now.

 

[DefenseRules]

You guys need to relax. First of all, UNLESS one of you know BB personally, there is no way you can tell what his game plan is going to be for that game.
What we do know is this: We have a team loaded with talented players who can play MULTIPLE positions. I don't think that BB has really dug into his bag of tricks yet.

Keep in mind two more things.
Donté Stallworth
Wes Welker
Kyle Brady
Marcellus Rivers
Randy Moss
Kelley Washington
Adalius Thomas
Brandon Merriweather
were not on this roster last year when we played the Colts in the AFC Championship game.

and

Junior Seau
Rodney Harrison
Eugene Wilson
Randall Gay
Were not on the field when we played them either.
They were on IR.

We are a very different team from the 2006 Patriots.
It will be interesting to see the game plan unfold in that game, and I can't wait.
The Pats have been playing very "Vanilla" schemes lately. Especially against Miami. We have no idea what this team is REALLY capable of.

 

[SoxPatsFaninIndy]

You guys need to relax. First of all, UNLESS one of you know BB personally, there is no way you can tell what his game plan is going to be for that game.
What we do know is this: We have a team loaded with talented players who can play MULTIPLE positions. I don't think that BB has really dug into his bag of tricks yet.

Keep in mind two more things.
Donté Stallworth
Wes Welker
Kyle Brady
Marcellus Rivers
Randy Moss
Kelley Washington
Adalius Thomas
Brandon Merriweather
were not on this roster last year when we played the Colts in the AFC Championship game.

and

Junior Seau
Rodney Harrison
Eugene Wilson
Randall Gay
Were not on the field when we played them either.
They were on IR.

QUOTE]

Did anyone else giggle a little bit when they read this? Very good point.

On a related note, I find myself giggling to myself everytime Randy catches the ball. Does anyone else do this?

 

[Franchise12]

bob sanders is a beast. sanders and wayne are the only guys I enjoy watching on that team. it will be interesting how they will use him when they play us. will he play deep cover two safety. or do they cheat him closer to the line as usual, to have a quicker reaction to the run.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

it will be interesting how they will use him when they play us. will he play deep cover two safety. or do they cheat him closer to the line as usual, to have a quicker reaction to the run.

The key for the Pats will be how "the Pats" make the Colts use Sanders.

If the Pats dictate and control where Sanders plays in this game they'll score more than enough points to win. If not .............

 

[Metaphors]

Time to step back and take a deep breath. The Colts' D isn't doing anything complicated or magical:

1) The ends push upfield. Attack the QB on a pass, otherwise prevent wide runs or reverses, essentially just by being in the way.
2) The tackles occupy the C/OGs to prevent clean runs up the middle. On passes just dive through the C/OG gaps to distrupt the QB when he steps up.
3) The LBs line up at the first down line. Keep short passes in front of them. Swarm to the ball on runs.
4) CBs play off until 3rd down, then they press cover. Really not involved much in run defense unless the play gets wide (which it shouldn't).
5) Bethea plays deep, Sanders plays about 10 yds off the line. On a run, Sanders sprints like his hair is on fire, finds the G/T gap and dives through it. If he doesn't make the tackle, he disrupts enough to let the LBs clean up. On a pass read, he sprints back into a cover 2 shell.

That's it. The defense is predicated on getting you into 3rd down, then turning up the pressure. No guesswork involved, they just try to "out-athlete" you. Not a bad strategy given the sad offenses in the league (particularly in their own division).

Beating this defense isn't rocket science either. Spread them out, play action, take the short stuff (screens work nicely here), get RAC yards to stay out of 3rd down or have 3rd and very short, convert your 3rd downs and be prepared to go for it on 4th down. Know any team that plays offense like this?

 

[nowayback]

sanders is very good. but they havent faced a decent qb yet this year. he can just roam freely. brees and NO are a mess this year. the colts d seems so good this year cause they can put 8 in the box every game. they are very good against one dimensional teams. and the one advantage they have is that they can get pressure on the qb with jsut their 4 man front.

 

[teamplay]

I came here to start a Sanders thread -- great minds think alike!

Great player. So here's my question: What was Jax's scheme for Sanders last night? All game he intercepted the runner UNBLOCKED! WTF! Jax seemed to have NO plan for him at all. I was dumbstruck. He took over the game and Jax still made no adjustment that I could see.

He did this against the Pats last time as well, so Sanders becomes THE key to the Nov. 4th game.

...not that I'm looking ahead mind you...BEAT Washington!

 

[shakadave]

Top Ten Reasons To Like This Thread:

10. ColtsTroll's name for himself
9. ColtsTroll's civil, intelligent tone
8. Insight into how Sanders plays
7. Insight (from Metaphors) into how Colts D plays
6. The Martz quote
5. The list of players we didn't have in the AFCCG. (However, I feel less good than you about having Rodney and Wilson out there defending Indy.)
4. Theories on what sort of game plan might work.

That's all I got!

 

[letekro]

I can't wait for this game... I think if Marlin Jackson gets burned early--which I full expect Moss to try and do--then Bob Sanders will play more of a coverage safety than in run support. At which point, Moss will be neutralized because a) Sanders will hit him hard and b) Brady won't throw to him w/ Sanders looming for the pick.

I love Bob Sanders as much as anyone, but the chances of him getting a pick on a ball thrown anywhere near Randy Moss is comical.

 

[Oswlek]

I'm sure that this isn't going to go over well with out Indy brethren, but Indy's D wasn't nearly as good as some want to make it out to be yesterday. They were largely just the beneficiaries of some of the worst quarterbacking one will ever see.

I have to admit that I didn't watch all that much of the first half, so some of this may be a tad bit off, but I don't expect it to be by much. Anyway, there are a few plays that I want to highlight:

* On Bob Sanders' int, the WR nearest looked open because Sanders was playing the ball instead of running to where the WR was, but no one was anywhere near Gray and he had plenty of time to find the underneath guy who looked open to me.

* On the other int, the WR would have been able to waltz into the EZ had the pass been where it was supposed to be. He blew right past the CB and the one safety on the field was nowhere near the play. Instead the ball was underthrown by about 10 yards (if not more) and on a line, so the WR had no chance a play of any kind. Easy completion for big yardage most of the time - and not just with Brady/Manning throwing the ball.

* On the drive after the tipped Manning int, there were two plays that I can remember. 1) A WR was free on a slant pattern - he had inside position and no one was in the throwing lane - but despite the WR only being 7 yards downfield the ball was still off by 4 yards. 2) The play either just before of after that one, Gray dumped it into a guy who had two guys right on him despite the WR in the zone beyond that one being completely free.

The other negative that seemed exploitable was Indy's selling out to stop the run. Jax came in with a decent plan to pass on 1st down to take advantage of this selling out, and they would have been more successful had they any real threats at WR. Once the human misfire took over and Indy extended their lead, it was all over.

I can say unequvically that if Indy covers like that against NE that the Pats will slap a 40-spot on the board.

Now, that said, I was very impressed with Indy's running game. I knew that it was improved, but I didn't realize just how improved it is. They took it to a good Jax front and just mauled 'em. That Kenton or Toby Keith kid looks like a decnt player, not just a product of the system. Unless my eyes deceived me, I saw a lot more power running from Indy rather than just stretch-stretch-stretch.

NE is going to have to get their tackling issues taken care of because Indy will be hard to keep under 30 points themselves.

Edit to add: Indy's defense is still quite a bit better than they have been in a while. They have maintained the swarming aggressiveness that they picked up in the playoffs last year. Their tackling has improved immensly, and their run D is obviously a lot better as well. I just wasn't impressed at all with their pass coverage.

Where Indy may catch a huge break is if Watson misses this game. Welker is a bad matchup for them, but Welker and Watson is a matchup *nightmare*.

 

[DW Toys]

How to negate Sanders?

This is what Mike Martz has to say on the subject of attacking safeties in a cover 2/3 defense like the Colts:

"A great slot receiver can put incredible pressure on safeties," Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said. "If your slot receiver is good, you can control coverages, particularly against the Cover 2 teams. The slot receiver can move that middle safety on a Cover 3. If you can move that safety, you open up things on the outside."

Seems we have said slot receiver in Welker who can allow our offense to control the coverages we see from opposing defenses like the Colts. In fact I believe this is why the Pats were so hot to acquire Welker .... specifically to counter what Sanders brings to the table for the Colts.

IMO, the best way to control Sanders is to keep him in coverage (away from run support) and then to throw away from him and at the other Colts DB's. Those other Colts DB's are exploitable. Having Moss, Stallworth and Welker lining up should keep Sanders over the top in pass coverage and if Brady is smart enough to recognize coverages and identify where he is, all should be good. Stallworth should have a great day. Watson too (seams) if he plays.

Good post Cousin,
Idea. I think a five wide out set with wider splits negates Sanders. You have to double either Randy or Wes. Put 5 wide and they have to cover with at least six. That leaves 4 in the box plus one LB. Run out Donte, Randy and Wes and all day long you have Gaffney and Watson if healthy (perhaps Washington) underneath. It would be like stealing and Sanders runs ragged.

Cousins think of this set up? The Colts can only commit four rushers. The pass rush, even with the vaunted #93 was just o.k. This set up would be like stealing. The wider the splits the less involved Sanders can be. Beat Freeney and Sanders and that's it for their D. Or split out four and have Maroney or Faulk behind Brady. This will drive the Colts nuts. It will be like 7-9 yard runs by short passes all day long. There is no way Sanders crowds the line or can blitz from a wider spread.

Speaking of blitzing, DB blitzes still bother Peyton. The key will be to do what they did to Whitten on Clark and take him out of the game. Put Assante on Harrison and get low high help on Wayne (Jags had the right idea but the safeties gave him too much cushion to catch up). I thought the Jags could match up better but they really aren't as good as I thought. Dallas could beat the Colts. We beat Dallas.

Just my opinion.

DW Toys

 

[Grizzafted]

I was wondering if anybody had by any chance happened to watch the football contest on Sunday where Randy Moss caught two 40+ yard Touchdown passes BY SPLITTING TWO DEFENSIVE BACKS AT ONE POINT CATCHING THE BALL WITH HIS ELBOW. The Colts gain nothing by putting Sanders on Moss in the double. Nothing. All they do is take Sanders out of the game and Moss still has 5 catches.

The Patriots offense can only be defended outside, in bad weather. In a dome? Please. Pats 41 Colts 27.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

How to take Sanders (who I love) out of his game? Two words:

Play action.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I was wondering if anybody had by any chance happened to watch the football contest on Sunday where Randy Moss caught two 40+ yard Touchdown passes BY SPLITTING TWO DEFENSIVE BACKS AT ONE POINT CATCHING THE BALL WITH HIS ELBOW. The Colts gain nothing by putting Sanders on Moss in the double. Nothing. All they do is take Sanders out of the game and Moss still has 5 catches.

Well other teams have contained Moss by doubling him but that may have only been because Brady didn't bother throwing to a double covered Moss. Now that Brady has started playing sandlot ball with Moss maybe we'll see more throws into double coverage from here on out. If they prove to be as successful as this past games jump balls then yes, why even bother doubling Moss .....

The Patriots offense can only be defended outside, in bad weather. In a dome? Please. Pats 41 Colts 27.

Weather wise, I think wind is the only thing that can stop the Pats offense. Snow, rain and cold weather favours the Pats offense.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Good post Cousin,
Idea. I think a five wide out set with wider splits negates Sanders. You have to double either Randy or Wes. Put 5 wide and they have to cover with at least six. That leaves 4 in the box plus one LB. Run out Donte, Randy and Wes and all day long you have Gaffney and Watson if healthy (perhaps Washington) underneath. It would be like stealing and Sanders runs ragged.

Cousins think of this set up? The Colts can only commit four rushers. The pass rush, even with the vaunted #93 was just o.k. This set up would be like stealing. The wider the splits the less involved Sanders can be. Beat Freeney and Sanders and that's it for their D. Or split out four and have Maroney or Faulk behind Brady. This will drive the Colts nuts. It will be like 7-9 yard runs by short passes all day long. There is no way Sanders crowds the line or can blitz from a wider spread.

Speaking of blitzing, DB blitzes still bother Peyton. The key will be to do what they did to Whitten on Clark and take him out of the game. Put Assante on Harrison and get low high help on Wayne (Jags had the right idea but the safeties gave him too much cushion to catch up). I thought the Jags could match up better but they really aren't as good as I thought. Dallas could beat the Colts. We beat Dallas.

Just my opinion.

DW Toys

Interesting takes.

The obviousness in all of this is the Pats can line up a gazzilion different ways on offense and beat the living snot out of you.

For years we've witnessed the Pats dictating to the opposing offenses what they can and can't do. We are finally seeing the same thing happen with the Pats offense.

How sweat that is.