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Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maroney


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Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

(B) Morris is hurt. What are you talking about?

Are you being serious about Morris? He was out almost all the Tennessee game and the entire Tampa game
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Just because you say that's how Maroney's runs break down, doesn't make it so. If you actually looked at the FACTS you would see you are 100% wrong. But I guess you'll just ignore the facts like all the other MBM's.




Morris come back? He's been here all year if I'm not mistaken.

Sort of helps your arguments if you actually watch the games.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Sort of helps your arguments if you actually watch the games.

You mean like the Maroney basher who claims he's been a season ticket holder for 17 years but doesn't know that Maroney doesn't get most of his runs from the shotgun formation?
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Sort of helps your arguments if you actually watch the games.


Yea sorry, I wasn't paying attention to what I was saying. But I guess it's just like you guys to harp on a relatively meaningless mistake though rather than the overall point. Taylor, Morris and Maroney were all healthy for the first couple of games. Morris is not going to be taking a workhorse workload when he comes back. As long as there are 2 healthy backs on the roster, they will be splitting carries though, as it is CLEAR that BB has decided since 2006 that it is far better for the team to not put the bulk of the workload onto ONE running back.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Yea sorry, I wasn't paying attention to what I was saying. But I guess it's just like you guys to harp on a relatively meaningless mistake though rather than the overall point. Taylor, Morris and Maroney were all healthy for the first couple of games. Morris is not going to be taking a workhorse workload when he comes back. As long as there are 2 healthy backs on the roster, they will be splitting carries though, as it is CLEAR that BB has decided since 2006 that it is far better for the team to not put the bulk of the workload onto ONE running back.

Blah blah blah, watch the games then post or go away. If you don't realize Morris hasn't played the last two games you should be posting somewhere else. 2 our of 7 games? Really?? meaningless mistake??
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

You mean like the Maroney basher who claims he's been a season ticket holder for 17 years but doesn't know that Maroney doesn't get most of his runs from the shotgun formation?

Agree, although I guess its worse to miss a guy not playing than to miss where he runs from, but splitting hairs there.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Agree, although I guess its worse to miss a guy not playing than to miss where he runs from, but splitting hairs there.


Or it's actually I just misspoke because I was trying to make a different point and it's not like Morris was taking the bulk of the work when he was healthy for 5 games. So go **** in your hat.

Maroney > Morris.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

We know now. That was the whole point of this thread. The offensive line has to run block better. So far they have sucked at doing it and anybody that has been watching the games knows this. Bill Belichick knows this. He said it. I'm not sure what you guys are having trouble understanding here, because I really don't think that BB could have made it any more cut and dry if had tried.
Well, lets not overstate the point. Out of most formations they run without a fullback and because they run out of passing looks fairly frequently, they ask the line to do a lot at a disadvantage. Most defenses are going to try to shoot gaps whether we run or pass anyways. Most of the times a run gets shut down is because a backside defensive end followed the hip of a pulling lineman and wasn't reached, or else a linebacker blitzed past the frontside double-team before one of the lineman rubbed off. Those are weaknesses of the scheme and the Pats don't "suck" because they can't beat it consistently.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Or it's actually I just misspoke because I was trying to make a different point and it's not like Morris was taking the bulk of the work when he was healthy for 5 games. So go **** in your hat.

Maroney > Morris.

Once again, perhaps if you had been watching the Patriot games instead of the Jets games you might have noticed Morris taking just as many, if not more carries than Maroney. I think a lot of people here would disagree with Maroney>Morris. I was going to say when when healthy, but I guess they both have been injured a lot.

So it comes back to the fact you had

A. no idea Morris had been out for 2 of the 7 games
B. came back after being called on it, and tried to make it sound like Morris was an after thought, when actually he was being used just as much as Maroney was, and I believe, started the Titans game.

You realize that Taylor has been out too, right?

You didn't misspeak, you really didn't know he was out which really calls into question any of your arguments, because you didn't watch the games. You didn't even pull out the, well I had quite a few beers during the game and all those football players look alike after a couple drinks argument, which I have used many times and is always acceptable.
 
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Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

I take issue with the part in bold. Maroney not being used in the passing game is not the same as him being ineffective. For the most part, from what I remember, LM has been effective when they throw him the ball (I have no stats to back up this impression so if it's wrong, please tell me)

I still remember some crucial dropped balls , don't ask me when and where.
BB is very very smart ,he doesn't put players on situations where they might likely fail to deliver and lose confidence for the rest of the season.BB knows exactly what is the potential of every players he has in hands , and will use it.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Once again, perhaps if you had been watching the Patriot games instead of the Jets games you might have noticed Morris taking just as many, if not more carries than Maroney. I think a lot of people here would disagree with Maroney>Morris. I was going to say when when healthy, but I guess they both have been injured a lot.

So it comes back to the fact you had

A. no idea Morris had been out for 2 of the 7 games
B. came back after being called on it, and tried to make it sound like Morris was an after thought, when actually he was being used just as much as Maroney was, and I believe, started the Titans game.

You realize that Taylor has been out too, right?

You didn't misspeak, you really didn't know he was out which really calls into question any of your arguments, because you didn't watch the games. You didn't even pull out the, well I had quite a few beers during the game and all those football players look alike after a couple drinks argument, which I have used many times and is always acceptable.


You are an idiot, we are done. The entire point was Maroney isn't going to see the field when Taylor and Morris are in there, when the fact is that Maroney was already seeing the field just the same when they were.

But I'm sure you are one of the MBM's who think that BB wants one back to carry the load but just can't find one. You're an idiot, insinuate I'm a jets fan all you want, I'm finished responding to you.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

So here's the distribution of Maroney's carries through week 7, 2009. It shows some interesting things, but we need to look a little closer to understand it.

maroney2009distribution.gif


Most of his carries are for 2 yards, with the second most being for 5 yards. That's a touch boom or bust for my tastes, but it's still good and productive.

As for negative yards, he only ever was tackled behind the line of scrimmage in 3 scenarios: 1) The second half of week 1 versus Buffalo, 2) 1 carry in week 2 against the Jets, and 3) 3 times in week 4 against Baltimore. That tells you a lot about how those negative plays come about. It's either a result of gameplanning or good defensive line play.

5 of his 13 total carries for 2 yards came in the 3rd and 4th quarter in week 7 against Tampa Bay. That skews the distribution a decent amount. Taking those 5 runs away turns the percentage to ~14%. That's still a fair amount of carries for 2 yards, but it certainly smooths the curve some. Is it fair to hand-wave away 5 carries? Possibly if it's more a result of a trend specific to that one game. Belichick has explained Tampa Bay away as their playing a lot of 8 men in the box. Still, we'll count it in his season totals and understand it rather than remove it. We had no carries for a loss like we did against Buffalo and Baltimore. To my way of thinking, that's a good performance.

The number of total carries is somewhat low at 62 so we can expect a lot of smoothing over the course of the season.

So, what does this tell us? In my view it tells us a few things. 1) I don't see a lot of evidence of dancing as a trend - against a good defense like the Ravens or the Bills in the second half Maroney gets shut down a bit, but outside of that he's definitely moving the ball forward.
2) His overall stats are affected when teams aim to stop or slow the run - he's not going to beat 8 men in the box or excellent defensive fronts but we don't ask him to. When that happens we run him a little less. That's to be expected given the offensive philosophy of this team.
3) To be honest I think the relative lack of 3 yard carries is a bad thing, and so far looks to be below the league average. I can't speak directly to the cause of this, but eating up more 3 and 4 yard runs would be nice to have.

Here's the raw data for Maroney's carries grabbed from ESPN's play by play for each game. I came out 2 yards ahead of ESPN's total season yards, but I double-checked the play-by-play numbers and they were correct. I can't explain the discrepancy, but it's not significant.

Carry Index Week Quarter Yards
1 1 1 0
2 1 1 11
3 1 1 8
4 1 1 10
5 1 2 7
6 1 3 -1
7 1 3 -4
8 1 3 3
9 1 4 1
10 1 4 -3
11 2 1 12
12 2 1 -1
13 2 1 4
14 2 2 2
15 2 2 2
16 2 3 4
17 3 1 5
18 3 1 5
19 3 1 5
20 3 1 2
21 4 1 1
22 4 1 -1
23 4 1 1
24 4 2 5
25 4 2 -1
26 4 3 2
27 4 4 -1
28 5 2 2
29 5 2 10
30 5 2 1
31 5 3 5
32 5 3 3
33 6 1 5
34 6 1 7
35 6 1 45
36 6 1 7
37 6 1 3
38 6 1 1
39 6 2 3
40 6 2 7
41 6 3 0
42 6 3 11
43 6 3 4
44 6 3 5
45 6 3 5
46 6 3 4
47 6 3 2
48 6 3 14
49 7 1 2
50 7 1 2
51 7 1 1
52 7 2 4
53 7 3 5
54 7 3 2
55 7 3 2
56 7 3 2
57 7 4 2
58 7 4 2
59 7 4 13
60 7 4 4
61 7 4 1
62 7 4 3
 
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Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

You are an idiot, we are done. The entire point was Maroney isn't going to see the field when Taylor and Morris are in there, when the fact is that Maroney was already seeing the field just the same when they were.

But I'm sure you are one of the MBM's who think that BB wants one back to carry the load but just can't find one. You're an idiot, insinuate I'm a jets fan all you want, I'm finished responding to you.

Actually I like Maroney, and thought he was doing much better the last couple games. I just hate morons who don't watch the games then come on the board and show us all their ignorance by posting completely wrong and misleading information, then when called on it try to explain that it was an easy mistake anyone could have made. I hear Ganggreen is looking for a few posters, you'd probably fit in over there, they never let the facts interfere with their posts either.

Plus you may not like the fact I called you out on your errors, but I can guaranty you I am not an idiot.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

I don't think anyone in here would disagree that if BB knew for sure that a 1st round RB in next years draft was going to be another Adrian Peterson he would NOT hesitate for one minute to pull the trigger and draft a RB that COULD carry the ball 25 times a game on a regular basis and produce big numbers most of the time,I think all coaches hope for a runner of APs or LT from a few years ago,But unfortunately no coach knows what they get when they draft RBs or any position for that matter.

Tom Brady and a superstar near full time RB like AP would make this team impossible to beat
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

Actually I like Maroney, and thought he was doing much better the last couple games. I just hate morons who don't watch the games then come on the board and show us all their ignorance by posting completely wrong and misleading information, then when called on it try to explain that it was an easy mistake anyone could have made. I hear Ganggreen is looking for a few posters, you'd probably fit in over there, they never let the facts interfere with their posts either.

Plus you may not like the fact I called you out on your errors, but I can guaranty you I am not an idiot.

I never claimed that Morris played in the last 2 games, I simply had forgotten he was injured. Considering that Morris playing really wasn't a part of my point it was a quick passing statement. Good job continuing to harp on it and attempt to derail the thread though.

I'm perfectly fine being called out on my errors. Your arrogant tone and inability to get the actual point annoyed me. But you can "guaranty" you are not an idiot all you want...
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

So here's the distribution of Maroney's carries through week 7, 2009. It shows some interesting things, but we need to look a little closer to understand it.

maroney2009distribution.gif


Most of his carries are for 2 yards, with the second most being for 5 yards. That's a touch boom or bust for my tastes, but it's still good and productive.

As for negative yards, he only ever was tackled behind the line of scrimmage in 3 scenarios: 1) The second half of week 1 versus Buffalo, 2) 1 carry in week 2 against the Jets, and 3) 3 times in week 4 against Baltimore. That tells you a lot about how those negative plays come about. It's either a result of gameplanning or good defensive line play.

5 of his 13 total carries for 2 yards came in the 3rd and 4th quarter in week 7 against Tampa Bay. That skews the distribution a decent amount. Taking those 5 runs away turns the percentage to ~14%. That's still a fair amount of carries for 2 yards, but it certainly smooths the curve some. Is it fair to hand-wave away 5 carries? Possibly if it's more a result of a trend specific to that one game. Belichick has explained Tampa Bay away as their playing a lot of 8 men in the box. Still, we'll count it in his season totals and understand it rather than remove it. We had no carries for a loss like we did against Buffalo and Baltimore. To my way of thinking, that's a good performance.

The number of total carries is somewhat low at 62 so we can expect a lot of smoothing over the course of the season.

So, what does this tell us? In my view it tells us a few things. 1) I don't see a lot of evidence of dancing as a trend - against a good defense like the Ravens or the Bills in the second half Maroney gets shut down a bit, but outside of that he's definitely moving the ball forward.
2) His overall stats are affected when teams aim to stop or slow the run - he's not going to beat 8 men in the box or excellent defensive fronts but we don't ask him to. When that happens we run him a little less. That's to be expected given the offensive philosophy of this team.
3) To be honest I think the relative lack of 3 yard carries is a bad thing, and so far looks to be below the league average. I can't speak directly to the cause of this, but eating up more 3 and 4 yard runs would be nice to have.

Here's the raw data for Maroney's carries grabbed from ESPN's play by play for each game. I came out 2 yards ahead of ESPN's total season yards, but I double-checked the play-by-play numbers and they were correct. I can't explain the discrepancy, but it's not significant.

Carry Index Week Quarter Yards
1 1 1 0
2 1 1 11
3 1 1 8
4 1 1 10
5 1 2 7
6 1 3 -1
7 1 3 -4
8 1 3 3
9 1 4 1
10 1 4 -3
11 2 1 12
12 2 1 -1
13 2 1 4
14 2 2 2
15 2 2 2
16 2 3 4
17 3 1 5
18 3 1 5
19 3 1 5
20 3 1 2
21 4 1 1
22 4 1 -1
23 4 1 1
24 4 2 5
25 4 2 -1
26 4 3 2
27 4 4 -1
28 5 2 2
29 5 2 10
30 5 2 1
31 5 3 5
32 5 3 3
33 6 1 5
34 6 1 7
35 6 1 45
36 6 1 7
37 6 1 3
38 6 1 1
39 6 2 3
40 6 2 7
41 6 3 0
42 6 3 11
43 6 3 4
44 6 3 5
45 6 3 5
46 6 3 4
47 6 3 2
48 6 3 14
49 7 1 2
50 7 1 2
51 7 1 1
52 7 2 4
53 7 3 5
54 7 3 2
55 7 3 2
56 7 3 2
57 7 4 2
58 7 4 2
59 7 4 13
60 7 4 4
61 7 4 1
62 7 4 3


This is some really awesome work. Thanks. I'm curious as to what the numbers are throughout his career and compared to the league-average with regards to 3-4 yard runs.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

I don't think anyone in here would disagree that if BB knew for sure that a 1st round RB in next years draft was going to be another Adrian Peterson he would NOT hesitate for one minute to pull the trigger and draft a RB that COULD carry the ball 25 times a game on a regular basis and produce big numbers most of the time,I think all coaches hope for a runner of APs or LT from a few years ago,But unfortunately no coach knows what they get when they draft RBs or any position for that matter.

Tom Brady and a superstar near full time RB like AP would make this team impossible to beat


Well first off you assume that because we don't have a RB that carries 25 times a game that none of our RB COULD carry 25 times a game. The RB position takes a major pounding and is the most injury prone position in the game. BB clearly does not WANT any one of his RB's carrying the ball 25 times a game consistently.

Even if you get a guy like AP who is a beast, the risk of him getting injured is still high. You underestimate the luck involved in staying healthy long term while running so frequently. I'm not saying I believe Maroney is the type of back that can go to another team and carry the load, running 25 times a game through the long haul. I'm just not sure that is something that BB WANTS, regardless of who he could have.

Obviously at good value he would take an elite back without batting an eye, but how much would you pay for an elite back?
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

For being a 1st round pick, I was expecting a lot more success from Dancing Glass Joe...

I do want him to be productive here though.

I honestly don't know why he would ever be resigned as a Pat, unless he signs for vet min.
 
Re: Bill Belichick joins The Big Show and offers a strong defense of RB Laurence Maro

i dont know why every one is so down on maroney he has done a good job the last two week's

and he's all we got right now lot's of guy's and i im one of them where calling for BJGE to get the ball more because he is a great down hill runer who hit's the hole hard

will he had 7 att for 6 yerd's and one of them was a 5 yerd run so that mean's he had 6 more att for 1 yerd that's not power running

and this O line is not that good yes they dont give up a lot of sacks but i think that's cause brady get's the ball out of he's hand's fast

right now they are 4th in the NFL fewest sack's given up

2007 they where 5th in the NFL fewest sack's given up

2008 with out brady 31th in the NFL with 48 sack's given up
 
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