Best NFL Team ever ?

[Fanfrom1960]

i'd pick the 1978 edition of the pittsburgh steelers. they were awesome. it says a lot about the nfl of that era that the '78 team had a number of close games during that season.
that team was coached by hall of famer chuck noll. included EIGHT hall of famers: terry bradshaw, mean joe greene, jack ham, franco harris, smilin' jack lambert, lynn swann, john stallworth, and mike webster
also on that team as players were tony dungy (DB), l.c. greenwood, rocky bleier, and donnie shell (DB).
the regular season record was 14-2. their SB win was over the roger staubach cowboys, 35-31, in a great game at the rose bowl.

That was a great team with a lot of HOFers, but, as others have been saying, players now are bigger, faster and stronger. That Pittsburgh team had two linebackers that played at 225 and 215 pounds (Ham and Lambert respectively). Today, they'd have to bulk up, or play safety, or not make the team, any team. You really have to compare teams within a period of 10 - 15 years or so, I think.

Another thing, the best pash rusher on the early great 49er teams, probably also best of his time, Fred Dean, weighed about 225 pounds, at DE.

 

[BruschiOnTap]

The 85 Bears always get mentioned as the most dominating team of the SB era, as far as one season. My question is, what was their schedule like ? The Pats of 2004 faced the 7th toughest schedule in the NFL, had the most injuries in the NFL, became the first defense in the history of the NFL to hold a team that scored 500+ points to 0 TD's in a playoff game. That game was played without their best DL and CB'sThe 2004 Pats, as far as I know, are the only team ever to win a Super Bowl after losing BOTH of their starting cornerbacks. As mentioned, they gave up 3 points to the best offense in the NFL in their first playoff game, and then went on to score 58 points against the #1 & #2 rated defenses in the AFCCG and SB. To me, the 2003 team may have been great, but what the 2004 team did was incredible. The 20-3 victory over Indy in the playoffs may have been the best defensive effort I've ever seen. The Pats might not have the Hall of Famers on defense the Bears had, nor anyone like the great Walter Payton on offense, but McMahon was no Tom Brady, and I think the Pats teams of 2003 & 2004 are better balanced teams than the 1985 Bears. As another person mentioned, the 1994 49ers team was pretty amazing, but once again, I'd like to see how tough their schedule was, and I do remember them crushing a weak Chargers team in the SB, The AFC was pretty crappy that year.

If the 2005 Pats somehow miraculously win the SB this year, Then they will go down as the greatest team of all time. No team has suffered the injuries, or gone through such changes as the Pats of 2005. I don't care what anyone says, even if we go 11-5 or 10-6, we win it this year, hands down the greatest of all time.

I agree with you, if the Patriots do it this year they will absolutely be greatest of all time. I already think last year's team could be but I am a bit inclined towards those Niners... they had an easy division but some tough games against Dallas, Kansas City, and Philly, two of which they lost. Another decent opponent was Denver, who they steamrolled. However, after review, I think their schedule pales in comparison to New England's 2004 campaign, leading me to believe '04 Pats are best ever.

 

[dryheat44]

I'd actually go with the 4th 49er Super Bowl team in 89 over the 94 team. I think they were better on both sides of the ball with Charles Haley and Lott still there on D and Montana/Rathman/Craig a better backfield at all 3 spots (even if only slightly) than Young/Floyd/Watters.

That's a fair point. But remember the 94 team brought in all kinds of defensive talent to go along with their offense. Deion Sanders, Ricky Jackson, Gary Plummer, Tim McDonald, Tim Harris, Ken Norton, and Richard Dent. Plus Pro-Bowlers Merton Hanks, Bryant Young and Dana Stubblefield. Steve Wallace and Harris Barton were the best set of OTs in the game.

 

[dhamz]

True they brought in a lot of vets for that year in 1994 but I'll still go with the 89 team. I just think they were more dominant and the numbers in the playoffs certainly bear it out. They outscored opponents 121-26 in 3 playoff games. The offense was just as dominant in the 94 playoff run with 131 points but that teams D gave up 69.

The 89 49er team was so deep and talented that they brought guy like Romanowski, Tim McKyer, Weslety Walls, Steve Young, Steve Wallace, Jim Burt, and Eric Wright off the bench. That is a lot of guys who played or would go on to play in Pro Bowls who couldn't crack the starting line-up.

 

[7BradyTim]

I got to with the 85 Bears as others have said. But with the 03 patriots running in second behind them

 

[onegameatatime]

I think the 03 Pats were our best team.
The D was the best we have had. 04 certainly has an advantage in the running game, but disadvantage in the secondary.
The 03 team was 10-0 against 10+ win teams. There was also an incredible defensive stretch, something like 3 TDs allowed in 70 drives.

I also think either would be in the argument as best ever. Combined, I think they get the nod. 34-4, a 21 game win streak. 6-0 in playoffs.

I'd probably give it to the Bears, considering they were 15-1 and then won 2 playoff games ith shutouts and a SB 46-10 (I forget against whom).

But I'd put the Pats right up there. In 2003:

Miami was 10-6, but against everyone except the Pats, they were 10-4. If they had split with the Pats, they would have been in the playoffs.

They also beat Dallas and Denver -- both 10-6 playoff teams.

Pats beat Carolina in the SB; but they also beat NFC runner-up Philly during the season.

They beat playoff team Tennessee twice and Indy twice. If you take away these teams' record against each other and against the Pats, they were a combined 24-4 against everyone else.

Really an amazing record.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

I'd probably give it to the Bears, considering they were 15-1 and then won 2 playoff games ith shutouts and a SB 46-10 (I forget against whom).

But I'd put the Pats right up there. In 2003:

Miami was 10-6, but against everyone except the Pats, they were 10-4. If they had split with the Pats, they would have been in the playoffs.

They also beat Dallas and Denver -- both 10-6 playoff teams.

Pats beat Carolina in the SB; but they also beat NFC runner-up Philly during the season.

They beat playoff team Tennessee twice and Indy twice. If you take away these teams' record against each other and against the Pats, they were a combined 24-4 against everyone else.

Really an amazing record.

Not to jump on you, but how can a team with Jim McMahon at QB be the best ever? I know, that may be the consensus, but, blechhhhh! If you look at the other best teams that have been mentioned in this thread, the QBs would be Otto Graham, Bart Starr (adding the old Browns and Packers teams, if they haven't been mentioned) , Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman and Tom Brady. McMahon was maybe the only drunk ever at BYU, a very average QB, and a jerk.

 

[shakadave]

I can't pick a team that had McMahon as the QB and receivers that were only medium-good and a Walter Payton that was only good but not great. They were maybe the best defensive team, but not all-around.

How about SF the year they got Ken Norton? And didn't they have Deion then too?

 

[Ring 6]

Other teams deserving mention:

You could put any of the Steeler Champs in the argument. Its hard to say which was their best team. Basically starting in 1974 the offense kept getting better and the defense deteriorated, which pretty much evened it out.
Its possible the best of the Steeler teams did not win the SB, in 1976, when they lost the AFCC with both Harris and Bleier out.

The 96 Packers were #1 ranked in both offense and defense.

The 1991 Redskins were incredible, but only because Mark Rypien had a great year, which he never came close to again.

Part of the problem with comparing teams is that you are looking at players careers but the teams season.
For example, when you look at Pitt, you rattle off Bradshaw, Stallworth, Swann. But in their early SB wins they stunk throwing the ball. You rattle off the Steel Curtain, but by 78-79 they were not nearly as strong on defense.
Each Champion had very good players at their peak and very good players who were not very good players yet. Sometimes that gets blurred. Terry Bradshaw was a huge liability for the 1974 Steelers. But when you look at the roster, you consider him a strength.

A good question is Who si the best team to NOT win a SB?

 

[MyFav]

Hi I am new and I think this place is pretty cool.
For my answer I would say the 97 or 98 Denver Broncos.
The 97 Broncos had to go through the playoffs as a wildcard team and win all on the road. And they were under-dogs in the Super Bowl by 14 points.
Then the 98 Broncos just blew out teams like nothing. Many of the starters wouldn't even play full games because they would be up by so much. And they had a 3000 yard passer and a 2000 yard rusher with a very hard schedule. And that was a repeat Super Bowl year.

 

[homergreg]

A good question is Who si the best team to NOT win a SB?

I would have to say the Bills of the early 90's. Any of those years you want, 4 Superbowls in a row without a win. That's a whole lot of playoff victories to never take the big one. So many great players on both sides of the ball.

 

[PatsFanonCape]

I agree with some of the earlier posts. In that its not vavid ( on a statistical basis ) to compare teams from different eras. You're talking about apples and oranges. They played under different rules, length of schedule ( including preseason ), size of league/division, salary cap, college drafting rules, the Super Bowl, divisional schedule ( weak division ),etc. My personal opinion, is that you can't pick "the greatest team ever". This is because, that in any given year, injuries, weather, schedules can favor one team. The question is can they sustain it ? If you go by numbers, the Steelers, San Francisco, Pats are definately there. But what about : Green Bay, Cleveland, Chicago, Buffalo, Dallas, Miami, Denver ( all great teams ). In the modern era, I'm picking the Pats ( I might be biased ).

 

[PYPER]

Good discussion.

I look at the Patriots this way. They might not be the best team ever but I would absolutely call them the best CHAMPION ever. What does that mean? Well, they're kind of like Rocky. They might get beat up or knocked down but they always pick themselves up and get back in the fight. They've got an iron will. They've got more heart than any team I've ever seen.

As for who's the best team.....I hate to give you the boring answer but the truth is that it really is impossible to say.

Here's my list of most impressive teams.

'03-'04 New England Patriots (The '03 team had a better defense and was healthier in the postseason. The '04 team had a much better offense but injuries really altered the roster. The '04 team that started 6-0 and extended the winning streak to 21 games be my pick if I had to choose but I'd sure like to mix and match the two rosters that contributed to the 21 game winning streak. I think that would definitely be the best team ever)

1978 Pittsburgh Steelers

1985 Chicago Bears

1989 San Francisco 49ers (1984 49ers are equally deserving of this list but I'm taking the '89 team b/c Montana was at the top of his game in '89 and b/c of the presence of Jerry Rice who wasn't part of the '84 team).

1998 Denver Broncos (surprise pick but this was a very good team).

Those are the five best teams in my opionion.

Honorable Mention:
1993 Dallas Cowboys (I've always thought they were a bit overrated. I don't think the NFL was particularly strong in the early 90's. The NFL is a coaches league and in terms of coaching the league was in a state of transition. Look at all the Coaching Legends that either retired, took some time off, or took over rebuilding jobs. Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Tom Laundry, Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, Marty Schottenheimer, Mike Ditka, Buddy Ryan, Chuck Knox...The coaching was so bad that Norv Turner fooled everyone into thinking he was a quality offensive coordinator. It was so bad that Rich Kotite found employment. It was so bad that Jim Mora was considered one of the best in the league.
1991 Washington Redskins (Everything just clicked for them that year).
1986 New York Giants (Prevailing memory of them is the playoff game vs the 49ers. 49 to 3!!!)
1972 Miami Dolphins (They've got the undefeated thing going for them but I don't think they could beat any other team listed above).


There you have it. That's 8 teams. When I get to Heaven or Hell I'm going to take over the place and see to it that an All-Time NFL Tournament is created. I just don't know who's going to coach the Patriots. It's going to be tough getting Belichick to join the afterlife. I bet he's got some type of elaborate scheme planned out on how to cheat death.

 

[Patriot Missile]

As far as the 85 Bears being the best team ever? I would have to anser no. One of the best defenses ever? Maybe the very best most dominating we have seen. I truly think BB and any of his superbowl teams would of devised a way to make McMahon look baffled. Imo we would of taken Payton out of the picture and tried to make them pass to beat us. No offense to Bear fans,it is just my opinion is all.

I think the 03 or 04 team would take on all comers probably having the most trouble with the 88 and 94 Fortyniners.

 

[dryheat44]

I can't pick a team that had McMahon as the QB and receivers that were only medium-good and a Walter Payton that was only good but not great.

Walter Payton was the greatest all-around RB this league has ever seen.

 

[Ring 6]

Walter Payton was the greatest all-around RB this league has ever seen.

Correct. Payton is the best ever. "Good" is an insult.

 

[shakadave]

Correct. Payton is the best ever. "Good" is an insult.

I never said Payton wasn't great, just that by '85 it was "a good Payton", not the great Payton of earlier years. I was young then and didn't know how to appreciate all that Payton might have done, but if dryheat says he was the greatest, I put a lot of stock in that. My memory was that Payton was nearing the end of his career --- hence the shame that Chicago got a Super Bowl TD for Fridge but forgot to get one for Walter.

Stats never tell the whole story, especially of true greatness, but I do see that Payton's postseason rushing average that year was only 2.8. It's also interesting that he had only like 2 years in his career where he rushed for more yards than Corey Dillon 2004, and only in the '70s did he (barely) ever rush for more TDs than Corey '04 or '05. But stats do show he was quite a prolific receiver, and again, stats never tell the whole story. In baseball they come close, but in football not by a long shot.

 

[dryheat44]

I never said Payton wasn't great, just that by '85 it was "a good Payton", not the great Payton of earlier years. I was young then and didn't know how to appreciate all that Payton might have done, but if dryheat says he was the greatest, I put a lot of stock in that. My memory was that Payton was nearing the end of his career --- hence the shame that Chicago got a Super Bowl TD for Fridge but forgot to get one for Walter.

Stats never tell the whole story, especially of true greatness, but I do see that Payton's postseason rushing average that year was only 2.8. It's also interesting that he had only like 2 years in his career where he rushed for more yards than Corey Dillon 2004, and only in the '70s did he (barely) ever rush for more TDs than Corey '04 or '05. But stats do show he was quite a prolific receiver, and again, stats never tell the whole story. In baseball they come close, but in football not by a long shot.

You are right in the regard that it was Walter's last season, so he was slowing down in '85. Remember that prior to the early 90's, teams usually rotated Running Backs. Heck, back in..damn I forget the exact year, maybe 1977, the Pats had FOUR RBs with over 600 yards. Plus the Bears were the worst team in football during the prime of Walter's career. He was a great receiver, and possibly the best blitz pick-up RB I've ever seen. He also played a few games a QB due to injury. But what impressed me the most about him was his attitude. I remember once in an interview after a game when he had about 250 combined yards and three TDs, some reporter asked him what his favorite play of the game was. Payton answered (paraphrase), De-Cleating a pass rusher who came in clean on the QB, allowing for a TD pass to be completed. Just a class guy.

 

[Pats Fanatic]

A good question is Who si the best team to NOT win a SB?

The 1976 New England Patriots

 

[dryheat44]

A good question is Who si the best team to NOT win a SB?

The 1996 Broncos or maybe the 1998 Vikings.