Best Defense in the AFCE?

[tanked_as_usual]

Lets start with the front line, there is no question there as our guys are all beasts. And we have the depth but the Jets are not in bad shape there either both with starters and depth.

ellis, jenkins and who?

you have douglas who in my opinion is a downgrade from kenyon coleman.....you have pouha who everyone ran over whenever jenkins was out........and then nobody in the rest of the unit has a thing over lekevin smith.......you don't even have a decent draft pick for a prospect

at Lb right now, you are talking gholston starting at OLB and has shown nothing to say he's more than woods (who isn't much in my opinion)

sure they have bart scott, but what is he when you don't have ray lewis getting all the attention in the middle......eric barton was not the liability in the unit that collectively cannot cover RB's and TE's.......not sure what scott bring in that regard......seems more like a push

right now, the most intriguins aspect in the secondary is seeing what will happen with bodden who is playing for a contract, excelled under crennel where he had a better season than revis has ever had...........so that spot can easily stand to be a push..........rhodes has a head up on any pats safety, but the jets don't have much in the other safety.......as for the other corner, sheppard/lowery is just as much of a wildcard as butler/springs/wheatley/wilhite.......the pats have much better depth at safety with chung and mcgowan

 

[Rob0729]

Its not any particular position, they just seem to me to have a more certain to perform to a certain level Defense if you get what I mean.

We have questions that need to be answered in postions especially at outside linebacker.
Lets start with the front line, there is no question there as our guys are all beasts. And we have the depth but the Jets are not in bad shape there either both with starters and depth. I do think we have one of the best front lines in the league though.
But then the questions start.
Mayo and Thomas are outstanding players but after that we have a bunch of unproven guys.
Paris Lenon might well be a nice pickup, Guyton I expect to be the starter alongside Jerod in the middle and there is every chance that we will have a very good interior but the fact remains that they still have to prove themselves at this level.
Now the Jets have Bart Scott this year and David Harris which looks very decent to me. We need somebody to prove themselves alongside Jarod, as Bruschi is finished as far as I'm concerned.
So on paper I give the edge to the New York Jets with starters although I expect Guyton to impress this year and we do have depth with Paris Lenon and Tedy there whereas they don't seem to have real depth at that position.
So lets say thats them with two proven starters and us with talent and depth so I'll give it a tie.
On the outside though the Jets look in far better shape with Pace and Bryan Thomas as starters and Gholston there as well.
We have Adelius Thomas and who? I'm hoping that Crable will come in this year and be the man, I don't see Pierre Woods as a starter. I may be wrong Woods might just do it. Who else have we? Banta-Cain? Not likely and I don't see how we are prepared for a full season in that position unless somebody is being converted to that position that we don't know about.
Definitely a huge edge for the Jets there.
At SS we've got Brandon Merriweather and an injury prone Tank(who would be a beast if he could stay fit). and McGowan who is average at best. Of course we have a very exciting prospect in Pat Chung but he I don't expect to see too much of him this season. Merriweather looked decent last year when he took over from Harrison but again has to prove himself.
The Jets have Leonhard and Eric Smith. Leonhard is good and Smith is a decent backup. Again I give the edge to the Jets but I do expect that Merriweather will improve and maybe Chung gets a little time in some games and takes over later in the season. However on paper you would have to go with the Jets.

After that I like the rest of our secondary but the Jets have proficient starters in all positions we still have question marks. We have Shannon Springs who is injury prone, we have Leigh Bodden coming off a woeful season with the Lions. Ok we have some very promising young players but again they have to prove themselves. I am happy with the rest of the secondary I'm just saying that there are question marks.

Basically I just believe that the Jets at this present time have a better group of proven starters, we have too many positions where we need players to prove themselves.
I am very hopeful though that players will prove themselves and that we will be better than the Jets on D.

1.) I don't think the Jets have a solid D-line and their depth is horrible. Jenkins is the only guy in that unit that I would want on the Pats.
2.) At OLB, when did Bryan Thomas and Vernon Gholston become much of anything. Bryan Thomas had one good year like three years ago and Vernon Gholston is as of right now is looking like one of the bigger busts in NFL history. Word is he struggled in minicamp in shorts and no pad where he should shine. I look at the Jets OLB and I say they have Calvin Pace and who? And Pace will miss a quarter of the season. Bryan Thomas is not a huge upgrade over Pierre Woods if one at all and right now TBC is far more accomplished than Gholston.
3.) ILB I will give the edge to the Jets, but Mayo may be the best of the bunch and we don't know yet if Harris was a rookie year wonder (he was a letdown last year) and Bart Scott was just fortunate to be flanked by Ray-Ray and Terrell Suggs. Scott has the potential to be a big free agent bust. Remember Rex Ryan wanted Ray-Ray over Scott originally eventhough Lewis is at the tail end of his career.
4.) I expect Meriweather to be at FS and Sanders to be at SS with Chung having a shot to replace Sanders. Leonhard is on his third team in three years and has only had one good year in the Ravens' defense. Again, he could be a product of the guys around him. Many people think Chung could be the real deal and could be a potential rookie of the year candidate. All speculation right now, but so is the Jets' SS position in my mind.
5.) I agree that Shawn Springs and Leigh Bodden is a bit of a question mark, but so is Lito Sheppard. The guy has been wildly inconsistent over his career. He had fallen out of favor in Philly and was FOURTH on the depth chart last year. How is that less of a question mark than either Bodden or Springs. I will give you Revis and Rhodes are solid (although Rhodes played mediocre last year).
6.) I think the Pats have four positions where there are questions (OLB, ILB, and both CBs). I think the Jets start the season with questions at OLB (it gets resolved in week 5 when Pace returns), CB, SS, and DE. I don't consider the Pats' safeties being questions because both Meriweather and Sanders have proven they can at least adequet starters in the Pats' defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

I like Vince but in fairness Jenkins is a beast.
I'll go better in 4 or 7 positions and a tie at NT....

Ok, there's no use trying to break this down if you're going to claim that Jenkins is as good as Wilfork as a 3-4 NT. At that point, this just becomes crazy talk.

 

[eagle eye]

Ok, there's no use trying to break this down if you're going to claim that Jenkins is as good as Wilfork as a 3-4 NT. At that point, this just becomes crazy talk.

Jenkins spent his first season in that position last year and was outstanding so how can you call it crazy talk?

 

[Deus Irae]

Jenkins spent his first season in that position last year and was outstanding so what you do think its crazy talk?

Yes, absolutely. Jenkins was not "outstanding" last season. He started off playing well and ran out of gas by the midpoint of the season. He did the same basic thing on a game-by-game basis.

 

[eagle eye]

Yes, absolutely. Jenkins was not "outstanding" last season. He started off playing well and ran out of gas by the midpoint of the season. He did the same basic thing on a game-by-game basis.

I didn't watch many Jets games last season but in the ones I did see he was an animal. I see he got all-pro as well.

 

[Rob0729]

Jenkins spent his first season in that position last year and was outstanding so how can you call it crazy talk?

Jenkins by his own admission was spent the last month of the season. It was a tale of two Kris Jenkins last year. The first half the season, he was a legitimate MVP candidate and average the second half of the season. I still don't think he can play at a high level all season (the knock on him in Carolina was his durability and conditioning) and that is a problem for the Jets.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jenkins by his own admission was spent the last two months of the season. It was a tale of two Kris Jenkins last year. The first half the season, he was a legitimate MVP candidate and average the second half of the season. I still don't think he can play at a high level all season (the knock on him in Carolina was his durability and conditioning) and that is a problem for the Jets.

This is what I'm saying. Until he proves he can get it done over the season, it's just crazy talk to me.

 

[Rob0729]

I didn't watch many Jets games last season but in the ones I did see he was an animal. I see he got all-pro as well.

Jets Pro Bowl NT Kris Jenkins recently said he was slowed by a herniated disk in his back suffered in a Week 3 loss at San Diego and a hip injury going down the stretch that limited his effectiveness.

After holding five of their first 11 opponents to 50 or less rushing yards behind the dominant play of Jenkins, the Jets allowed their final five opponents to rush for 100 or more yards, with the Bills gaining 187 yards in Week 15.

Mike Shanahan is out of the running as New York Jets coach - NJ.com

 

[eagle eye]

This is what I'm saying. Until he proves he can get it done over the season, it's just crazy talk to me.

So now its not that he isn't as good but more that he has to prove it over a whole season?

 

[Deus Irae]

So now its not that he isn't as good but more that he has to prove it over a whole season?

He wasn't as good. He played the whole season and wasn't as good as Wilfork. If you had made the argument that "Jenkins wasn't as good because he was hurt", that would be a different argument, and one that I'd consider worth debating and discussing, whether or not I agreed with the assertion. You didn't make that claim, however.

 

[eagle eye]

He wasn't as good. He played the whole season and wasn't as good as Wilfork. If you had made the argument that "Jenkins wasn't as good because he was hurt", that would be a different argument, and one that I'd consider worth debating and discussing, whether or not I agreed with the assertion. You didn't make that claim, however.

You never mentioned that he was hurt towards the end of the season either. Look I'm sick of defending Jets players, I despise the Jets as much if not more than anybody. I'm simply saying that anytime I see Jenkins play last year he was excellent and if he was injured at the end of the season well that explains the drop off in form. So at the end of the day I still have him and Wilfork as equals until its proven otherwise.
And edit to add: Stop being so pedantic.

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't watch many Jets games last season but in the ones I did see he was an animal. I see he got all-pro as well.

How do you argue about how a player played when you say you didnt see the games?
What are you basing your opinion on?

 

[Deus Irae]

You never mentioned that he was hurt towards the end of the season either. Look I'm sick of defending Jets players, I despise the Jets as much if not more than anybody. I'm simply saying that anytime I see Jenkins play last year he was excellent and if he was injured at the end of the season well that explains the drop off in form. So at the end of the day I still have him and Wilfork as equals until its proven otherwise.
And edit to add: Stop being so pedantic.

Why the hell would I mention it? I wasn't the one making the claim that he was Wilfork's equal. You were.

This place is starting to take on Rod Serling overtones.

 

[eagle eye]

How do you argue about how a player played when you say you didnt see the games?
What are you basing your opinion on?

I'm going on the games I seen and reports I read of other games.

 

[eagle eye]

Why the hell would I mention it? I wasn't the one making the claim that he was Wilfork's equal. You were.

This place is starting to take on Rod Serling overtones.

You were able to make the claim that his form dropped off in the second half of the season. You just didn't bother to mention injury.

And who the **** is Rod Serling?

 

[Deus Irae]

You were able to make the claim that his form dropped off in the second half of the season. You just didn't bother to mention injury.

And who the **** is Rod Serling?

I also said that it happened during individual games. Again, why would I mention his injury/injuries? He did the same "fading in games and over the season" thing the year before in Carolina.

 

[Ring 6]

Its not any particular position, they just seem to me to have a more certain to perform to a certain level Defense if you get what I mean.

We have questions that need to be answered in postions especially at outside linebacker.
Lets start with the front line, there is no question there as our guys are all beasts. And we have the depth but the Jets are not in bad shape there either both with starters and depth. I do think we have one of the best front lines in the league though.
But then the questions start.
Mayo and Thomas are outstanding players but after that we have a bunch of unproven guys.
Paris Lenon might well be a nice pickup, Guyton I expect to be the starter alongside Jerod in the middle and there is every chance that we will have a very good interior but the fact remains that they still have to prove themselves at this level.
Now the Jets have Bart Scott this year and David Harris which looks very decent to me. We need somebody to prove themselves alongside Jarod, as Bruschi is finished as far as I'm concerned.
So on paper I give the edge to the New York Jets with starters although I expect Guyton to impress this year and we do have depth with Paris Lenon and Tedy there whereas they don't seem to have real depth at that position.
So lets say thats them with two proven starters and us with talent and depth so I'll give it a tie.
On the outside though the Jets look in far better shape with Pace and Bryan Thomas as starters and Gholston there as well.
We have Adelius Thomas and who? I'm hoping that Crable will come in this year and be the man, I don't see Pierre Woods as a starter. I may be wrong Woods might just do it. Who else have we? Banta-Cain? Not likely and I don't see how we are prepared for a full season in that position unless somebody is being converted to that position that we don't know about.
Definitely a huge edge for the Jets there.
At SS we've got Brandon Merriweather and an injury prone Tank(who would be a beast if he could stay fit). and McGowan who is average at best. Of course we have a very exciting prospect in Pat Chung but he I don't expect to see too much of him this season. Merriweather looked decent last year when he took over from Harrison but again has to prove himself.
The Jets have Leonhard and Eric Smith. Leonhard is good and Smith is a decent backup. Again I give the edge to the Jets but I do expect that Merriweather will improve and maybe Chung gets a little time in some games and takes over later in the season. However on paper you would have to go with the Jets.

After that I like the rest of our secondary but the Jets have proficient starters in all positions we still have question marks. We have Shannon Springs who is injury prone, we have Leigh Bodden coming off a woeful season with the Lions. Ok we have some very promising young players but again they have to prove themselves. I am happy with the rest of the secondary I'm just saying that there are question marks.

Basically I just believe that the Jets at this present time have a better group of proven starters, we have too many positions where we need players to prove themselves.
I am very hopeful though that players will prove themselves and that we will be better than the Jets on D.

See this is the kind of silliness that I expected would be spewed here.
Leonhard was a career backup who got a chance to start last year due to injury and he is GOOD but Meriwhether is a first round pick who was 2nd on the Pats ion tackles and he 'looked decent'/
Flat out you are out of your mind if you think Leonhard can even be compared to Meriwhether. Meriwhether has all-pro caliber ability (hasnt gotten there yet though) and Leonhard is a jag.

You see a HUGE edge in Roid suspended Pace and Thomas plus Gholston vs our OLBS, huh?
Bryan Thomas has been in the NFL 7 years and has 23 sacks. (Oh and he has 8 total the last 2 years, starting at OLB) And pass rushing is his strength. He is a SUBPAR OLB. Calvin Pace's 7 sacks last year were a career high after putting up an average of 2.8 a year in Az. A medicore OLB. Gholston had ONE TACKLE last year. He couldn't even get on the field, and is behind an undrafted FA on the depth chart to replace Pace.
Adalius Thomas alone makes the Pats better at OLB, and the dropoff from either of the Jet OLBs to Woods is small, even if Woods is a disappointment. TBC is better at this point that Gholston, and I'd have more confidence in Crabel than Gholston because Crabel was hurt while Ghoslton just sucked.

At corner, Springs and Bodden have to be quesiton marks, yet they were not benched like Lito Sheppard was.
No mention of our 2nd year players that actually had some success last year in Wilhite and Wheatley, but Gholston gets a positive rating from you.
On the DL we have 3 of the best DL in the NFL, but the Jets 'are good too' even though they have a NT who is a part time player, and no one to speak of to play one of the DE positions opposite their best DE who isn't in the same league as our 2.

Depth, and the fact that the Jets handed over 3 quality starters to the Browns is noticiably lacking in your analysis.

This is the problem with a lot of posters on this board.
The Patriots were better last year, had fewer defections and as many additions, yet must be downgraded for questions while the Jets bring in a career backup safety and thats a great thing.
You have to be even in yur approach. If you are talking about ability talk about ability on both sides.
If you are raising quesitons, raise them on both sides.
To call veteran new players to the Patriots who have been quality starters their entire career injury prone and coming off a woeful season then say:

the Jets have proficient starters in all positions we still have question marks
When 2 of the Jets starters are a career backup and a guy who was benched
is just not being objective.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm going on the games I seen and reports I read of other games.

How many Jet games did you see?

 

[eagle eye]

See this is the kind of silliness that I expected would be spewed here.
Leonhard was a career backup who got a chance to start last year due to injury and he is GOOD but Meriwhether is a first round pick who was 2nd on the Pats ion tackles and he 'looked decent'/
Flat out you are out of your mind if you think Leonhard can even be compared to Meriwhether. Meriwhether has all-pro caliber ability (hasnt gotten there yet though) and Leonhard is a jag.

You see a HUGE edge in Roid suspended Pace and Thomas plus Gholston vs our OLBS, huh?
Bryan Thomas has been in the NFL 7 years and has 23 sacks. (Oh and he has 8 total the last 2 years, starting at OLB) And pass rushing is his strength. He is a SUBPAR OLB. Calvin Pace's 7 sacks last year were a career high after putting up an average of 2.8 a year in Az. A medicore OLB. Gholston had ONE TACKLE last year. He couldn't even get on the field, and is behind an undrafted FA on the depth chart to replace Pace.
Adalius Thomas alone makes the Pats better at OLB, and the dropoff from either of the Jet OLBs to Woods is small, even if Woods is a disappointment. TBC is better at this point that Gholston, and I'd have more confidence in Crabel than Gholston because Crabel was hurt while Ghoslton just sucked.

At corner, Springs and Bodden have to be quesiton marks, yet they were not benched like Lito Sheppard was.
No mention of our 2nd year players that actually had some success last year in Wilhite and Wheatley, but Gholston gets a positive rating from you.
On the DL we have 3 of the best DL in the NFL, but the Jets 'are good too' even though they have a NT who is a part time player, and no one to speak of to play one of the DE positions opposite their best DE who isn't in the same league as our 2.

Depth, and the fact that the Jets handed over 3 quality starters to the Browns is noticiably lacking in your analysis.

This is the problem with a lot of posters on this board.
The Patriots were better last year, had fewer defections and as many additions, yet must be downgraded for questions while the Jets bring in a career backup safety and thats a great thing.
You have to be even in yur approach. If you are talking about ability talk about ability on both sides.
If you are raising quesitons, raise them on both sides.
To call veteran new players to the Patriots who have been quality starters their entire career injury prone and coming off a woeful season then say:

the Jets have proficient starters in all positions we still have question marks
When 2 of the Jets starters are a career backup and a guy who was benched
is just not being objective.

What are you doing here man, right at the end? Are you attacking me for worrying about our defense?

Lets clear a few things up anyways. First of all and you know quite well why Lito Sheppard was benched last year, its because they paid out the big bucks for Asante. Its not like the guy suddenly lost form or anything.
The way you try to make us believe that he was benched becuase he was not good really sounds like a homer. FFS I'm trying to objective about it and you are knocking me and saying I should be objective and then you come out with that bull**** about Sheppard.

In my first post I said that on paper you would have to say the Jets look stronger but that we have a lot of promising guys and I'd expect us to be the better defense.
You rattle on about us only losing two starters.
Rodney Harrison was a starter last year
Mike Vrabel was a starter last year
Ellis Hobbs was a starter last year
We still have Tedy but is he still up to it?

So I'm looking at four starters that have to be replaced.
Bodden had a bad year in a bad team last year. Does that mean he is finished? Hell no it doesn't but it means that he has to prove himself this season.
Shawn Springs has been injured or hurt for most of the last couple of years. So will he stay fit is the big question. Clearly when fit he is and exceptional corner.
I know we have younger players there too, but again we have to see improve in them before we can say they are good enough.

Look my point here is that when you just look at the starting Ds on paper, the jets to me have the more complete looking outfit.
I'm not saying that I expect them to be better than us, I'm just saying that at this time there are a lot of worries in key positions for us.

And I hope you are right in your analysis of the Jets, I love nothing better than seeing them getting their asses whooped week in week out.