Belichick on McCourty: He has good skills

[Sicilian]

I'm scratching my head at what Reiss was saying about safety play and McCourty. He was saying the Patriots need more help deep in the middle of the field rather than CB help, but it seems to me that the Patriots' secondary has been getting torched mostly on the sidelines against the CBs and not so much the middle of the field.

I don't have any numbers to back it up, but based on the eye test I actually feel the opposite. I feel like the majority of big plays (and big 3rd down conversions) have happened in the middle of the field, right in the hole between the LB's and safeties. Part of that I think has been a lack of confidence in the deep play ability of those safeties, so they're playing deeper than they normally would, opening up that gap.

That, and a lot of red zone TD throws seem to come off miscommunications between the corner and safety help on that player. Not sure who's mistake those tend to be though.

 

[PatsDeb]

I'm scratching my head at what Reiss was saying about safety play and McCourty. He was saying the Patriots need more help deep in the middle of the field rather than CB help, but it seems to me that the Patriots' secondary has been getting torched mostly on the sidelines against the CBs and not so much the middle of the field.

I think the year has gone like this - McCourty is so afraid to let any receivers get behind him (because he knows there is no real safety there to help him) that he just lets everyone make the catch in front of him and tackles them, rather than playing aggressive, going for the ball and potentially whiffing on a big play. I bet he has been instructed in this regard by his coaches. Have you seen our "safeties" be late to plays, run into each other (or the cornerback chasing the play) and generally look like the keystone cops out there? I have, repeatedly. Couple this with Arrington being an INT threat and McCourty probably experiencing a sophmore slump/lingering injury, and you have a lot of completed throws to McCourty's side of the field. Bad play by him, but not necessarily all "on" him.

 

[patfanken]

I wouldn't make promises that I can't keep, Ken. ;-) If it turns out that McCourty is best suited to play FS. It is entirely possible and even logical that he could stay there. Particularly since it is so hard to find good safety play in the NFL these days. If Dowling comes back strong and healthy next season, he might end up the other CB across from Arrington. And to put our best DBs on the field that would then mean - Arrington/Dowling at CB and Chung/McCourty at S. Of course this also probably means we draft another CB next season.

We have yet to see if the switch is permanent, but nothing would shock me at this point. Arrington/Molden/Moore look pretty decent out there at CB.

interesting that you bring this up VJC. In another thread - the one about Felger's "the cap is crap" - the writer pointed out something I hadn't thought of.

If the Pats hadn't found it necessary to keep Kevin Faulk in almost a ceremonial role for a final season, they MIGHT have kept Dowling off the IR and he'd be ready to play now. If that were the case, than it might be Dowling manning that S slot instead of McCourty and we'd have a big, fast CB play FS who actually had some safety experience It would have made all the difference in the world.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I'm scratching my head at what Reiss was saying about safety play and McCourty. He was saying the Patriots need more help deep in the middle of the field rather than CB help, but it seems to me that the Patriots' secondary has been getting torched mostly on the sidelines against the CBs and not so much the middle of the field.

When you play your position correctly and expect Safety help up top and long, and don't get it this is what happens.

As far as I'm concerned many of the "long pass completions" attributed to McCourtey are the fault of the invisible Safety who is never there, or never there on time. I often see #44 or #31 flash into view just as McCcourtey is making the TD saving tackle after a completion, when the Safety was supposed to be there when the ball arrived, covering on top, and long, for overthrown and on target throws, while McCourtey plays inside & behind technique, for the underthrown balls, just as he is taught to do.

Address the Safety problems, and McCourty will "suddenly" look much better, once again. Chung's presence was immediately measureable, but there is still a need for a pair of Safeties, and he is the only one they have.

 

[Deus Irae]

When you play your position correctly and expect Safety help up top and long, and don't get it this is what happens.

As far as I'm concerned many of the "long pass completions" attributed to McCourtey are the fault of the invisible Safety who is never there, or never there on time. I often see #44 or #31 flash into view just as McCcourtey is making the TD saving tackle after a completion, when the Safety was supposed to be there when the ball arrived, covering on top, and long, for overthrown and on target throws, while McCourtey plays inside & behind technique, for the underthrown balls, just as he is taught to do.

Address the Safety problems, and McCourty will "suddenly" look much better, once again. Chung's presence was immediately measureable, but there is still a need for a pair of Safeties, and he is the only one they have.

McCourty has been awful. The safeties aren't why he's sucked.

 

[PatsDeb]

I miss Earthwind Mooreland. Eugene Wilson also went on IR that season at some point or other. The other guy who played a lot was Terrell Buckley who was a solid DB for several years.

Anyway you look at it, the 2012 playoff group is the kiddie corps. None of them have won a playoff game. Arrington and Chung are the old men with 3 years experience. McCourty is finding his best fit and Sterling Moore has, what, six games of NFL experience?

Guys like Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers must look at this defensive backfield and lick their chops. Not so with the 2004 crew, if intact.

Yeah, but sometimes licking your chops doesn't pay off. Arrington has a bunch of INTs and for at least one game, Moore showed he is a threat in that dept. Ty Law and Rodney Harrison were young once too, after all. The only thing BB can do now is go with what he's got, put em in the best position and coach em up. The only thing we can do is sit back and (hopefully) enjoy the ride. BB seems to like this group, despite their youth, and maybe their ability to adjust and shut out the other team for long stretches says they listen well to in-game coaching.

They have 2 weeks to put something together, and the new wrinkle with McCourty at safety may be just the ticket.

 

[Ivan]

I'm scratching my head at what Reiss was saying about safety play and McCourty. He was saying the Patriots need more help deep in the middle of the field rather than CB help, but it seems to me that the Patriots' secondary has been getting torched mostly on the sidelines against the CBs and not so much the middle of the field.

I think the reason teams have been going over the top has been a complete lack of concern that deep safety help would get there and make a play, and having both Chung and McCourty back there will change that and make teams think more about going downfied. I want him to stay there because none of the other safeties has made a play in pass defense all season. Imo they should act as if McCourty isn't available at corner and play his replacement there with Arrington at the other corner and play McCourty and Chung together at safety.

It would be a really late point to have it all come together but i do have hope that with both Fletcher and Spikes back in the linebacker mix and Chung and McCourty at safety the defense could come together and play pretty well in the play-offs, and i would never write any Patriots team with Belichik and Brady off going into the tournament.

 

[MSU]

That's why I love Sterling Moore. Took McCourty out for a few game without benching his ass, even though he deserved it.

 

[Steve102]

Well, there you go. That explains your starting this thread with this...

I don't see that the two statements are in conflict. McCourty has not had the follow up season we all would have hoped for. BB has resorted to guys off the street to shore up departures of Sanders, Meriweather, et al at safety. It's a smart coaching move, IMO. BB knows McCourty has skills, and moves him to a position that has been a problem all season. Clearly, BB sees that the fall off from McCourty to his replacement is outweighed by the level of play gained by replacing X player with McCourty at safety.

 

[Ring 6]

So this means the Patriots starting DBs are:

• Patrick Chung and Devin McCourty at safety
• Sterling Moore and Kyle Arrington at the corners

I wish we could transplant the 2004 Patriots' DBs to the 2012 playoff team:

• Rodney Harrison and Eugene Wilson at safety
• Ty Law and Asante Samuel at the corners

That is SPECULATION based on what was seen for part of last weeks game.
No one has shown me any evidence of what McCourtys role will be in the playoffs, although this board has decided for itself apparently.

 

[Ivan]

That is SPECULATION based on what was seen for part of last weeks game.
No one has shown me any evidence of what McCourtys role will be in the playoffs, although this board has decided for itself apparently.

That's probably because the defense the board is alluding to just played the best 3 quarters of defensive football we have seen all season. I really don't see anyone saying that McCourty is a lock as safety but rather that we would like to see him back there for the reasons cited.

I don't know what Belichik will do and doubt anyone else does either, but if you feel it is a guarantee he will play CB then say so.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I miss Earthwind Mooreland. Eugene Wilson also went on IR that season at some point or other. The other guy who played a lot was Terrell Buckley who was a solid DB for several years.

Anyway you look at it, the 2012 playoff group is the kiddie corps. None of them have won a playoff game. Arrington and Chung are the old men with 3 years experience. McCourty is finding his best fit and Sterling Moore has, what, six games of NFL experience?

Guys like Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers must look at this defensive backfield and lick their chops. Not so with the 2004 crew, if intact.

Terrell Buckley was a JET in 2003. He was a Dolphin for the second time in 2004. He played here in 2001 and 2002...he started 3 games. Delhomme carved us up pretty good in XXXVIII and even McPuke gave our D a run for it's money until the last two minutes of XXXIX... We won three SB's by 3 points and the last points in each came off the foot of a PK...twice in the closing moments of the game. Eugene was a good safety when Rodney was on the field. He played both seasons in full but went out in XXXIX. Thereafter and when Rodney wasn't on the field, he was lost. As was Samuel. But teams still racked up yards and even points back in the day good old days. People have just forgotten and romanticized the past.

 

[Steve102]

Terrell Buckley was a JET in 2003. He was a Dolphin for the second time in 2004. He played here in 2001 and 2002...he started 3 games. Delhomme carved us up pretty good in XXXVIII and even McPuke gave our D a run for it's money until the last two minutes of XXXIX... We won three SB's by 3 points and the last points in each came off the foot of a PK...twice in the closing moments of the game. Eugene was a good safety when Rodney was on the field. He played both seasons in full but went out in XXXIX. Thereafter and when Rodney wasn't on the field, he was lost. As was Samuel. But teams still racked up yards and even points back in the day good old days. People have just forgotten and romanticized the past.

McPuke:rocker:

that's great.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Terrell Buckley was a JET in 2003. He was a Dolphin for the second time in 2004. He played here in 2001 and 2002...he started 3 games. Delhomme carved us up pretty good in XXXVIII and even McPuke gave our D a run for it's money until the last two minutes of XXXIX... We won three SB's by 3 points and the last points in each came off the foot of a PK...twice in the closing moments of the game. Eugene was a good safety when Rodney was on the field. He played both seasons in full but went out in XXXIX. Thereafter and when Rodney wasn't on the field, he was lost. As was Samuel. But teams still racked up yards and even points back in the day good old days. People have just forgotten and romanticized the past.

Thank you for pointing this out. If anything, it was the 2003 Pats that had the outstanding secondary. That season, Rodney got hurt in the Super Bowl and that's when Delhomme went bombs away. Law and Harrison were 1st team All Pro that year, and Eugene Wilson and Asante Samuel were both solid as rookies. Tyrone Poole is the forgotten man, starting every game that season with Samuel as the nickelback. That defense was fantastic---Law, Harrison, Poole, Wilson and Samuel in the secondary to go with Seymour (1st team All Pro), Bruschi (2nd team), Vrabel, McGinest, Ted Washington in his one dominant season, a rookie Ty Warren, Roman Phifer, Ted Johnson, a young Jarvis Green and an IR'd Roosevelt Colvin that was playing out of his mind the first few games before he got hurt. The next season, the addition of Dillon made the team far more balanced, and the 04 Pats are the team people seem to remember more. But for defense, I'd take the 03 squad.